Whole Foods no longer a rumor

**Detroitdave** · July-26-11, 06:41 AM

I think it's a good idea if they actually open a store in the downtown or midtown area. I used to live in a city with 4 whole foods in a 5 mile area and like 6 trader joes all in the same 5 mile area, plus ralphs and pavillions
There are already dozens of local stores they don't offer quality , clean stores and bad services.
We as a city has just accepted these bad qualities , and Hopefully with Whole Foods coming into town it will up the game of these "Spartan" stores . These stores think they are doing Detroiters a favor by opening their run down stores , with bad floor plans, full of pop and other unhealthy things in every isle .They would never open a store of stay in business in ,Troy, Novi, Livonia , Plymouth, Grosse Point , ect.
Maybe with WF opening it will show these " grocery stores" what a Grocery store looks like , not a glorified liquor store. As long as security is tight , which is sad ,but true in Detroit, it should be fine.
I hope they are enough people to keep it open?, I think it will have a big effect and have some push back from A LOT of Detroitiers who are used to the dame ole same ole, Get ready for "it's too expensive, or it's for those rich new people moving in "
Doing business in Detroit is still kinda of risky, but someone has to take a risk, if done right and with ... an it bears to be said again , cause we know how these things can go in Detroit, i.e the store, I think athlete's foot ?. just recently broken into 3 times , by driving a car right through the window ????, Just when you thought "That is the craziest thing I've ever heard ", but this is Detroit, then something else even crazier happens.
I'm hoping for the best

**313WX** · July-26-11, 06:51 AM

Originally Posted by Detroitdave

I think it's a good idea if they actually open a store in the downtown or midtown area. I used to live in a city with 4 whole foods in a 5 mile area and like 6 trader joes all in the same 5 mile area, plus ralphs and pavillions
There are already dozens of local stores they don't offer quality , clean stores and bad services.
We as a city has just accepted these bad qualities , and Hopefully with Whole Foods coming into town it will up the game of these "Spartan" stores . These stores think they are doing Detroiters a favor by opening their run down stores , with bad floor plans, full of pop and other unhealthy things in every isle .They would never open a store of stay in business in ,Troy, Novi, Livonia , Plymouth, Grosse Point , ect.
Maybe with WF opening it will show these " grocery stores" what a Grocery store looks like , not a glorified liquor store. As long as security is tight , which is sad ,but true in Detroit, it should be fine.
I hope they are enough people to keep it open?, I think it will have a big effect and have some push back from A LOT of Detroitiers who are used to the dame ole same ole, Get ready for "it's too expensive, or it's for those rich new people moving in "
Doing business in Detroit is still kinda of risky, but someone has to take a risk, if done right and with ... an it bears to be said again , cause we know how these things can go in Detroit, i.e the store, I think athlete's foot ?. just recently broken into 3 times , by driving a car right through the window ????, Just when you thought "That is the craziest thing I've ever heard ", but this is Detroit, then something else even crazier happens.
I'm hoping for the best

Whole Foods IS too expensive for most Detroiters.

Problem is the grocery stores Detroiters can most likely support [[yes, like Kroger, Safeway, Publix, Piggly Wiggly, Tops, etc.) are scared stiff of the city. Though to be fair even Kroger was too expensive for most Detroiters when they were on 7 Mile and Gratiot.

But I agree with you concerning the chaldean-owned stores [[Spartan and others). Other than those few select stores everyone brags about [[Honey Bee, University Market, etc.) most of Detroit's markets are either quite awful or no frills. But I doubt they're worried about Whole Foods running them out of business though in a city where 1/3 to 1/2 of the people are living below poverty.

**iheartthed** · July-26-11, 07:20 AM

Originally Posted by Det_ard

From a strictly business perspective WF coming to midtown is somewhat speculative. They could build another store in say, suburban Dallas, and be assured of a certain level of revenue and profit. Building in Detroit is subject to more P&L uncertainty.

Countervailing that is the sure "win" of building a store in a city that's perceived as a food desert and an emerging hipster/artiste enclave. If they lose money the PR payoff may still make it worth it. There's also the value of exploring and learning from a certain type of developing market, swaths of poverty with islands of disposable income.

And who knows, they might make money. If they don't, and they decide to shut down in two years, they won't have lost so much money that they endanger the corporation.

I'd be surprised if they don't open in Detroit, and if they do, it's a good thing for Detroit and midtown specifically. The establishment of a corporate business like Whole Foods puts that area on the map for other corporate site location specialists. The sucess of WF in Detroit really will get the attention of businesses in a way that a sucessful City Bird or Slows can't. If they fail, we're just back to where we started.

Now I'm probably the opposite of the typical WF shopper and I don't think I've even been in one of their stores but I hope they succeed in Detroit.

Hell hath frozen over. Whole Foods has everyone in agreement for once.

**English** · July-26-11, 11:11 AM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Hell hath frozen over. Whole Foods has everyone in agreement for once.

Iheartthed, when I first heard the rumor in the fall, my response was "When pigs fly." When the announcement is made, I will change my Facebook and Twitter profile pics to that of a flying pig. I still can't believe it.

**Crumbled_pavement** · July-26-11, 05:55 PM

Originally Posted by English

I still can't believe it.

I don't believe it.

**gthomas** · July-26-11, 05:58 PM

We will know tomorrow..? Hopefully Good News..

Originally Posted by Crumbled_pavement

I don't believe it.

agrahlma · July-27-11, 07:24 AM

Does anyone know what time Bing plans to make his announcement today?

**Jimaz** · July-27-11, 07:53 AM

Originally Posted by agrahlma

Does anyone know what time Bing plans to make his announcement today?

Major announcement from Bing expected today

Today's announcement will be at 10 a.m. in Odd Fellows Hall in the Springwells neighborhood of Southwest Detroit. The Detroit Works advisory committee met Tuesday night in a closed meeting so it could be briefed on the announcement, city officials said.

**mwilbert** · July-27-11, 07:55 AM

That seems like an odd place to make an announcement about something happening along Woodward. Perhaps there will be multiple announcements.

**iheartthed** · July-27-11, 08:04 AM

Originally Posted by mwilbert

That seems like an odd place to make an announcement about something happening along Woodward. Perhaps there will be multiple announcements.

Aren't the Feds pushing him to announce the neighborhoods to be focused on as part of the Detroit Works project soon? Maybe it's all related.

**rjk** · July-27-11, 08:21 AM

I'm not familiar with WF.
What other store in the area would it be similar to?

**Detroitkid** · July-27-11, 08:22 AM

English, do you promise?

**DetroitPlanner** · July-27-11, 08:29 AM

Originally Posted by mwilbert

That seems like an odd place to make an announcement about something happening along Woodward. Perhaps there will be multiple announcements.

Whole Foods won't be saying anything about expansions until after the bell today. Bing will not be able to definitively say anything about Whole Foods until after Whole Foods talks to thier stockholders.

**Melocoton** · July-27-11, 08:51 AM

Originally Posted by rjk

I'm not familiar with WF.
What other store in the area would it be similar to?

Whole Foods in Birmingham or Ann Arbor.

**hamtown mike** · July-27-11, 09:18 AM

Originally Posted by agrahlma

If it does happen…could someone please explain to me how this is a bad thing?? I’m having a really difficult time understanding the potential negative impact. Investment in the city is a bad thing? What am I missing???

Ask the owner of kim's produce how this could be a bad thing.

**English** · July-27-11, 09:38 AM

Originally Posted by Detroitkid

English, do you promise?

Yes, I do. Did it happen already? I've been working all morning and not keeping up with the news.

**DetroitPlanner** · July-27-11, 09:49 AM

Originally Posted by Melocoton

Whole Foods in Birmingham or Ann Arbor.

The Ann Arbor store is probably too large for comparison. There is one in my sister's town of Laguna Beach, CA that is slightly larger then a Walgreens. If the rumoured site is accurate, it would most likely be that size.

http://wholefoodsmarket.com/stores/lagunabeach/

bartock · July-27-11, 09:53 AM

Originally Posted by hamtown mike

Ask the owner of kim's produce how this could be a bad thing.

Competition is good for the marketplace.

**mwilbert** · July-27-11, 10:00 AM

For the marketplace, yes, at least in general.

For the people selling in the marketplace, generally not.

**English** · July-27-11, 11:44 AM

Is that really true? I think one of the biggest issues we have in Detroit is that people feel as if one business will cancel another out, instead of interanimating one another. I think that Kim's will be fine because this WF won't be large enough or expansive enough to sell everything. So will Goodwell's.

When I lived in Midtown between 2000 and 2004, until B&N opened, the only place to get a latte was Avalon. Today, the options are expanding AND more coffee shops are opening. You don't see the people at Fourteen East or Thistle saying [[guffaw) "er, there's a Biggby, two Starbucks, and Avalon in the vicinity... and people can get coffee @ Good Girls... ur, no way will my coffee shop succeed." I am happy for the big chains, and see them getting customers while those of us who like artisanal coffees and teas populate the independents.

I lived in Ann Arbor for 6 years. We had within a 5-10 minute drive of my house every chain grocer in Michigan. Whole Foods and TJ's didn't put people out of business. EVERY SINGLE TIME [[sorry, but I have to emphasize this) that I had a dinner party, barbecue, or gathering, both WF and TJ's did not have many ingredients and items. Not only did I head to Kroger or Hiller's or Busch's, I patronized Morgan and York, Zingerman's, and a zillion other places.

More is better. Kim will be fine. I haven't talked with her, but most of the small business owners I've been able to ask about it seem very enthusiastic. In fact, Kim may do better BECAUSE of hipster/more "sustainable than thou" attitudes that deplore Whole Foods for many different reasons... and patronize them as an alternative.

[[I'm that way with coffee. For me, Biggby is completely indigestible... but I'm glad they're there.)

**Gistok** · July-27-11, 11:45 AM

Just look at how many stores in Detroit sell Liquor, sell Lottery Tickets and Cash Checks [[and have a poor healthy food selection).... we don't see them going out of business... I don't think a Whole Foods is anything to lose sleep over for other merchants...

**English** · July-27-11, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by Gistok

Just look at how many stores in Detroit sell Liquor, sell Lottery Tickets and Cash Checks [[and have a poor healthy food selection).... we don't see them going out of business... I don't think a Whole Foods is anything to lose sleep over for other merchants...

Precisely. Or beauty supply and nail shops. I don't get this whole "there must be ONE!" mentality. In fact, I will say something taboo -- Midtown is at the point where it could support another bakery in addition to Avalon. Perhaps a cupcake shop, or something like that. That won't put Ann and Jackie out of business... as residential and tourist traffic increase as more businesses and attractions open, the lines will likely be out the door. [[Sigh.)

**mwilbert** · July-27-11, 12:05 PM

Obviously a shopping area can be synergistic--people come to shop one place and end up shopping at several, and an area becomes a destination. But having other people selling exactly the same thing close to you is generally disadvantageous. It is certainly possible that if the volume of business in an area increases a lot because of the clustering, it would more than offset the disadvantage of a competitor.

This is very similar to the food truck argument--is the harm food trucks do to the restaurants in an area offset by them making the area more attractive? You can't be sure ahead of time, but certainly in general the incumbents don't like competitors moving in.

**iheartthed** · July-27-11, 12:06 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

The Ann Arbor store is probably too large for comparison. There is one in my sister's town of Laguna Beach, CA that is slightly larger then a Walgreens. If the rumoured site is accurate, it would most likely be that size.

http://wholefoodsmarket.com/stores/lagunabeach/

They tend to build multi-level stores on smaller footprints at their urban stores. Since they will own the building, instead of leasing, I don't see why they would need to hedge by building a smaller store.

**JDKeepsmiling** · July-27-11, 12:11 PM

Lots of good points here. I cannot say that there will be no collateral damage from a WF opening in Midtown. However, it is definitly true that density creates business. If you don't think this is true, think of how like types of stores cluster together. This makes it so that people will bounce between all of them and spend more then they would have if just one was in town. I would argue that many grocers in the area might take a small short term hit in business, but should recover and even grow as the overall market expands. The people who work at Whole Foods have to get their groceries somewhere, and not all of them will be from Whole Foods.