Grosse Pointe Schools to become school of choice?

[Melocoton]

Those communities that have chosen and voted to raise their own taxes in order to invest in education in their community should be able to also determine whether they want to be a school of choice.

Detroiters have consistently raised their own taxes to fund education--so don't they have the right to have more options?

Let's correct your sentence, since it's not really about who votes for higher taxes: what you really meant to say was, "Those communities that ARE RICH should be able to also determine whether they want to be a school of choice."

[Detroitnerd]

Some people were all for democracy being optional if people were too poor to afford it. Now that they find their democracy in jeopardy, will they realize what fools they were to sacrifice it in other people's names?

[English]

Some people were all for democracy being optional if people were too poor to afford it. Now that they find their democracy in jeopardy, will they realize what fools they were to sacrifice it in other people's names?

Post of the day. Detroitnerd, you rock.

[bailey]

Some people were all for democracy being optional if people were too poor to afford it. Now that they find their democracy in jeopardy, will they realize what fools they were to sacrifice it in other people's names?

and some people willfully distort reality to fit their worldview.

With behavior like this, is it any wonder that even middle class and upper middle class African Americans are wary about visiting, living, and sending their CHILDREN into certain places? Do these folks sincerely believe that little five and six year olds are coming out to the Pointes to rob their banks and molest their children?

seriously.. the race card? good lord you are allegedly a Phd and you can't see that this is not about race but about equity. P.s. nice generalization of every GPer by taking anonymous comments on a message board as relevant. Should I assume stop snitching is your position when it comes to crime because I saw some comments about that on mediatakeout.com?

This is not a issue of integrating schools in the same district, this is an issue of busing kids across district lines. I'm assuming you'd have an issue with Students from Ohio getting instate tuition at your school right? Orville Hubbard isn't standing at Jeff and Alter saying "none shall pass". Buy or rent in GP [[or parts of harper woods). Not one realtor will stop you. Pay your taxes in GP [[or parts of harper woods) and not one barrier to anything GP schools has to offer will be denied to you. This has nothing to do with race and everything to do with making DPS's failings someone else's problems. Because, when this goes through, there will be no more DPS because whatever bar that remained that kept kids there will be completely removed for all but the MOST poor.... and the death spiral continues.

[Zacha341]

Yes, that is a point that has been overlooked! Thanks for bringing it up!

....Franky, DPS should be just as wary of this proposal because it's simply going to act to speed up the mass exodus.

[bartock]

Detroiters have consistently raised their own taxes to fund education--so don't they have the right to have more options?

Let's correct your sentence, since it's not really about who votes for higher taxes: what you really meant to say was, "Those communities that ARE RICH should be able to also determine whether they want to be a school of choice."

Re-read what you wrote. What are you talking about?

Guess what? A kid in Bloomfield Hills can't just go to Grosse Pointe schools as things are today.

Detroiters have the right to vote DPS school of choice also, so that doesn't make any sense.

The rich have school of choice, it's called private school. I'm not here to defend the rich. And I'm certainly not a member of that class.

Now people who oppose the school of choice thing have become defenders of the rich and white by the usual suspects around here. [[Eng, you are the most discriminated and defiled person in history, got it.). I just made the mistake of admitting to a realization that it would be hypocritical to acquiesce one power grab by Lansing and oppose another. Back to the ivory tower, I guess.

[Detroitnerd]

Oh, yes. How dare anybody bring up race. Hahahaha.

[Zacha341]

I hear you loud and clear!

...We have been discussing these trends for as long as I've been in education. So I am loving the comments from conservatives who are suddenly defending teachers. They loved educational reform as long as it was about poor stupid black and brown kids and their lazy teachers in crumbling inner-city schools. Now that Snyder is proposing that we provide more options across district lines for kids in "failing" school districts, people who voted for the Tough Nerd are changing their tune. It is hilarious!

[Goose]

i guarantee that not one person playing the race card has been to a grosse pointe school and seen the diversity.... stop being ignorant, there were black family at the local meeting regarding this issue that are against it also....

it obvious that many here have a resentment for people with money, perhaps due to their own failures or lack of achievement, regardless of how much you desire to "hurt" these people in "richville", it won't be the "richies" that are hurt, there kids will go to private school, it will be the middle class people that are affected, and those people will be most likely the ones moving out....

with the attitudes of some people pitting rich vs. poor, do you really think there would be cohesive education where one student goes home to a house on devonshire and jefferson and another kid goes home to a place on beaconsfield and bremen?.....

instead of trying to improve one's lot in life, some people are looking at others who "have" and make efforts to take what these other people "have"......

[bailey]

Oh, yes. How dare anybody bring up race. Hahahaha.

well, when it has nothing to do with race...yea... its fucking ignorant to bring it up. GP.birmingham..whatever aren't going to take kids from ROMEO either for all the same reasons.

[Detroitnerd]

Methinks bailey doth protest too much.

[English]

seriously.. the race card? good lord you are allegedly a Phd and you can't see that this is not about race but about equity.

Of course my doctorate is alleged! They just give those things out like candy.

What can I say? I had a great weekend and I'm in a good mood. I didn't quote any studies. I didn't give any stats or empirical research. I didn't even question anyone's intelligence, morality, or lack of common decency.

I'm just laughing! Between this and Whole Foods, I'm having a great Monday...

P.s. nice generalization of every GPer by taking anonymous comments on a message board as relevant. Should I assume stop snitching is your position when it comes to crime because I saw that on mediatakeout.com?

LMAO! You already do... that's why you typed it!

Whenever I see generalizations of all black people, and all black Detroiters, I feel more than free in turn to generalize the generalizer's identity group[[s) just so reasonable people can begin to understand how offensive their generalizations are. Unreasonable people just get angry.

This is not a issue of integrating schools in the same district, this is an issue of busing kids across district lines. Orville Hubbard isn't standing at Jeff and Alter saying "none shall pass". Buy or rent in GP. Not one realtor will stop you.

Of course they won't! [[Still laughing here...)

Pay your taxes in GP and not one barrier to anything GP has to offer will be denied to you. This has nothing to do with race and everything to do with making DPS's failings someone else's problems. Because, when this goes through, there will be no more DPS because whatever bar that remained that kept kids there will be completely removed for all but the MOST poor.... and the death spiral continues.

Yes, I get it. If we just worked hard, stopped whining, cleaned up their city, stopped seeing racism everywhere, and cleaned up our act, the country would be a lot better. Besides, we all know that those who always point out racism are the biggest racists. [[Or so I've been told.)
Why should anyone care what a group of people whom they dislike think about them? Awful black Detroiters are supposed to say, think, and do awful, egregious, and offensive things that are not appropriate for their station in life. That is how life works, yes? And that is why it is perfectly rational and reasonable for good upstanding citizens to not want five and six year olds from the wrong side of Alter Road attending school with their children.

[Danny]

Humm lets' see.

If we can keep the School of choice program in Michigan, that would lead to competition for all public and EVIL charter schools for federal monies. Welcome people from the any communities from the Ghettoes to the Barrios to enroll in a nice white clean schools. That would cause the change of demographics.

Take a look what happen to the Clintondale School District!

http://www.schooldigger.com/go/MI/sc...91/school.aspx

In Clintondale High School the black student population was a steady numbers from 1988 to 2001. After the School of Choice bill passed, African Americans who sent their kids to that school has increased. [[ I have seen what happens when the SMART bus RTE 560 Gratiot Ave. from 7:00am to 9:00am. and from 2:00pm. to 4:00pm.has increased ridership. Filled with black kids coming from Detroit.) By 2010 The Black student population in CHS is over 60% while the white student population dropped.

Same effect happened in South Redford TWP. schools Redford Union Schools Westland Schools and more schools throught the metro-Detroit area.

Take away the School of Choice programs and this will be the result.

Take Grosse Pointe School District for George Defer Elementary for example:

http://www.schooldigger.com/go/MI/sc...19/school.aspx

The white student population mains dominate but steady and the black student remains a slow growth and steady.

Making Grosse Pointe Public Schools a competive edge against Detroit Public Schools and other schools district will be too costly from out of its local taxpayers. Fewer GP residents might yelled out at the next PTA meeting saying " I'm paying my taxes so I can let some black kid from Detroit or some Arab kid from Dearborn or some Jew kid from West Bloomfield come to that school! REDICULOUS! If some immgrant want to come our district, let them move themselves here." It would be some race card demographic change waiting to happen of Grosse Pointe decides to have a school of choice program.

[English]

i guarantee that not one person playing the race card has been to a grosse pointe school

Are you serious?

Listen, I know it's difficult for most Americans to understand, so I will say it more slowly. Race. And. Socioeconomic. Class. Are. Different. Things.

So please, quote us correctly. We're not just playing the race card, but the class card, the snobbery card, and the effing hypocrisy card. There is a full deck involved here, but posts can only be so long.

it obvious that many here have a resentment for people with money, perhaps due to their own failures or lack of achievement, regardless of how much you desire to "hurt" these people in "richville", it won't be the "richies" that are hurt, there kids will go to private school, it will be the middle class people that are affected, and those people will be most likely the ones moving out....

Oh, the reasoning here... let's see...

1) It is indeed silly to resent those with money. It is common sense to disdain those with money who do not act as if other members of their own species are, indeed, members of the same species.

2) Many of those who feel that the attitudes expressed are idiotic do not lack for achievement and/or money. As bailey has helpfully informed us, it doesn't take money or achievement to become a taxpaying resident of the Pointes.

3) Not only are rich people already going to private school, the wealthy who actually matter are not even in GP's orbit. A handful of individuals in the Pointes qualify as part of this new and emerging global elite. Most people in the GPs are middle to upper middle class. They will indeed likely choose private schools and homeschooling for their children. I helpfully explained why this will be more of a trend in the future.

4) White flight has a radioactive half-life of T minus 60 years, if that. I couldn't find the map I saw for 2060-2080 projections, but this article provides US maps of demographic projections up to 2040:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-30-years.html

So yes, there are still some places available for flight today. For perhaps a few more decades, the status quo may continue. However, why people expect the social, racial, and cultural fabric of the United States in the future to remain exactly as they have been in the past is bewildering. Our grandchildren will likely not care much about the same things that we care about, just as we don't talk about, think about, or care about whether owning other human beings is appropriate.

Shift happens. We grow, evolve, and change. Of course, long after Columbus sailed, there were those who still believed the world was flat. Time marches on. Our descendants will look back and wonder why we [[both you and I) cared about any of this stuff, in the same way that we don't get why people thought the way they did 100, 500, or 1000 years ago.

[Detroitej72]

One point nobody on here has thought of yet, this could bode well for Detroit. People who are hesitant to move to the city because they have school age kids might reconsider if they can send them to a school of choice in the burbs. This could increase the educated population in Detroit.

And just an FYI, much of Grosse Pointe is not rich, just working, middle class folks who have moved there for the great schools and quite neighborhoods.

[English]

I hear you loud and clear!

Zacha - today is a good day!

[bailey]

Originally Posted by bailey

seriously.. the race card? good lord you are allegedly a Phd and you can't see that this is not about race but about equity.

Of course my doctorate is alleged! They just give those things out like candy.

It must be the doctorate talking, but I have no idea that means. was that some sort of comeback?

What can I say? I had a great weekend and I'm in a good mood. I didn't quote any studies. I didn't give any stats or empirical research. I didn't even question anyone's intelligence, morality, or lack of common decency.

except ya did and have repeatedly... on multiple threads. hate to see how racist you get after a bad weekend.

P.s. nice generalization of every GPer by taking anonymous comments on a message board as relevant. Should I assume stop snitching is your position when it comes to crime because I saw that on mediatakeout.com?

LMAO! You already do... that's why you typed it!

Uh. no. the point was I don't because, unlike you, I actually do understand that radical generalizations made about a diverse population are unfair and ignorant. A point repeatedly lost on you which is frankly scary considering your claims that you are a multple degreed educator.

Whenever I see generalizations of all black people, and all black Detroiters, I feel more than free in turn to generalize the generalizer's identity group[[s) just so reasonable people can begin to understand how offensive their generalizations are. Unreasonable people just get angry.

For those of us NOT posting racial invective anonymously on the freep site and actually having a stake in the issue, I'll point out AGAIN, it's NOT ABOUT RACE.

This is not a issue of integrating schools in the same district, this is an issue of busing kids across district lines. Orville Hubbard isn't standing at Jeff and Alter saying "none shall pass". Buy or rent in GP. Not one realtor will stop you.
Of course they won't! [[Still laughing here...)

What world do you live in where you think that is true? Seriously I'm asking. You are seriously saying a Realtor today would turn down black people based on race? I really hate to break your bubble, but money trumps all else these days. and the Pointe system was 30 yrs ago. Prices are historically low, interest rates are too. Check out the GPs I'm sure there is something in your price range.

Pay your taxes in GP and not one barrier to anything GP has to offer will be denied to you. This has nothing to do with race and everything to do with making DPS's failings someone else's problems. Because, when this goes through, there will be no more DPS because whatever bar that remained that kept kids there will be completely removed for all but the MOST poor.... and the death spiral continues.

Yes, I get it. If we just worked hard, stopped whining, cleaned up their city, stopped seeing racism everywhere, and cleaned up our act, the country would be a lot better. Besides, we all know that those who always point out racism are the biggest racists. [[Or so I've been told.)

Keep projecting and using reductionist logic because, clearly that is what I said.

By the way, I'd like a doctorate please.. any field will be fine..... I suppose I should go to school and get one the way you did, but that sounds like a long and frankly difficult process, what I'd like is to take a few online courses and have one handed to me from your school...oh yeah, and I'd really appreciate a job at your pay and benefit level even though my qualifications are completely inferior to yours. you don't mind...right? As History says below... the needs of many outweigh the needs of the few. There are many of us without multiple degrees and jobs in academia..... we need those things

Why should anyone care what a group of people whom they dislike think about them? Awful black Detroiters are supposed to say, think, and do awful, egregious, and offensive things that are not appropriate for their station in life. That is how life works, yes? And that is why it is perfectly rational and reasonable for good upstanding citizens to not want five and six year olds from the wrong side of Alter Road attending school with their children

Again, it's legitimately frightening that you are employed by our state to educate students at a very fine institution if you are that intellectually lazy.

Again I ask you [[should you choose to drop the race canard) would you advocate students from Ohio paying instate tuition at UofM or Wayne? Of course you wouldn't. It has nothing to with race and everything to do with what you paid to go there and how you're going to get paid in your current position.

GPs and other places, made choices on how they want to tax themselves and what services they want to provide, what right do those outside the municipality have to those services?

[HistoryNotHisStory]

Interesting.
As our resident nerd governor continues in his quest to dismantle public education, it looks like there may be some unanticipated consequences for some of his stronghold Rublican voting constituancy.
My guess is that the district will argue that school capacity is not dictated by school size, rather the numer of teachers and they will adjust their staff to just accomodate the current level of students.

Guess the old saying is true: be careful what you ask for, you just might get it.

http://www.freep.com/article/2011072...choice-mandate

Schools of Choice was developed during the Engler years and supported by Republicans. It is no surprise that School of Choice is now being mandated statewide since it was a Republican idea.

Why is School of Choice a problem now? No one complained when Detroit lost its students to Southfield, Hazel Park, Madison Heights, Oak Park, East Pointe, Harper Woods, and other Districts. School of Choice is one of the contributing factors to the financial demise of the Detroit Public Shcools. These districts are compelling Detroit students to cross 8 Mile Rd for the extra funding from the State of Michigan. If School of Choice was not a problem then , then why is it a problem now!


Furthermore, Grosse Pointe only represents a small populance of the entire state. The Republicans that introduced the bill is saying that it will helps districts statewide. The needs of the many outweighs the needs of the few.

My suggestion of Grosse Pointe is to welcome their new students with open arms. Because the present School of Choice law reads as follows:

"A district may not grant or refuse enrollment based on age, except in the case of an applicant for a program not appropriate for his/her age. A district may not grant or refuse enrollment based upon religion, race, color, national origin, sex, height, weight, marital status or athletic ability, or, generally, in violation of any state or federal law prohibiting discrimination. A district may not refuse enrollment to a student eligible for special education programs and services, unless the application is under Section 105c and there is no written agreement with the district of residence. Special education programs and services are not considered "special programs" under Section 105 or 105c. A district may refuse to enroll an applicant who has been suspended within the preceding two years or who has ever been expelled."

For more information, please see the present School of Choice Law see the following link.
http://www.michigan.gov/mde/0,1607,7...6922--,00.html

[HistoryNotHisStory]

Grosse Pointe should have saw it coming.

I saw it coming years ago.

School of Choice was a great idea from the Republicans that they are now expanding to all public schools!

I LOVE MY GOVENOR!

ONE TOUGH NERD!

p.s. If Grosse Pointe doesn't like it then they should close ALL of their public schools.

[noise]

Again I ask you [[should you choose to drop the race canard) would you advocate students from Ohio paying instate tuition at UofM or Wayne? Of course you wouldn't.

Speaking for myself, I am all about state-to-state reciprocity for tuition at schools of higher education.

[HistoryNotHisStory]

Speaking for myself, I am all about state-to-state reciprocity for tuition at schools of higher education.

I agree with that concept also. That is a GREAT IDEA. Let's see if we can get the Govenor to make that into a new law. It will help increase enrollment.

[aoife]

"GPs and other places, made choices on how they want to tax themselves and what services they want to provide, what right do those outside the municipality have to those services?"

Thank you. It is painful to read commentary from people with obvious "issues" they need to address, possibly in therapy. This is not a race war. Grosse Pointe is not what it was like in the 1950s- no one is keeping anyone out. The simple fact is that most of us, the young families who have moved to that area, did so specifically for the schools. We pay extra taxes to maintain these schools and put in hours of volunteer time to help keep them successful. Why exactly should our extra taxes go towards out-of-district kids? If you want to be in the schools then rent or do what we did- buy a very small house in a modest neighborhood. There are so many vacancies right now and we would love to have new neighbors.

[HistoryNotHisStory]

Re-read what you wrote. What are you talking about?
Now people who oppose the school of choice thing have become defenders of the rich and white by the usual suspects around here. [[Eng, you are the most discriminated and defiled person in history, got it.). I just made the mistake of admitting to a realization that it would be hypocritical to acquiesce one power grab by Lansing and oppose another. Back to the ivory tower, I guess.

When the first School of Choice law was being enacted that allowed for Districts to volunteer for the School of Choice option, Citizens of Detroit and the Detroit Board adamantly fought it to no avail. Engler and Lansing passed it and may it law. The Detroit Board fought it because they knew it would have caused mass exodus of students and dollars. Yet, no one cared.

School of Choice only make poor school districts poorer. It does not help them.

The original opposer to School of Choice was Detroit! Not a rich district.

[Detroitnerd]

Haha. Don't tell me, tell the governor you probably voted for.

[Patrick]

Ask yourself this: Would you send your child to a public school in Detroit when you could have the option of sending the kid to one of the finest school districts in the state...maybe country? With that said, isn't there a number or quota for the number of students allowed in each year? How is that number computed? It's not like there is this huge invasion of kids coming in. I am not trying to downplay ti because it does suck for the people who pay a shitload of $$ to live in GP.