Mich. House OKs smoking ban, but not in casinos

[oldredfordette]

The last time I went to Barts it was nearly empty, so we were able to enjoy the band. But I have had to leave on different nights, and if it's real crowded I don't go in.

I read where Jeremy Haberman says he would like to ban smoking at the Bag but is afraid to lose business. He lost my business [[though I admit if Ian McLagen comes back I might have to put a mask on and go anyway).

I smoked for over 20 years, I'm not unsympathetic.

[wash_man]

"This is the State of Michigan, overriding traditional local government controls, to dictate businesses to ban an otherwise- legal activity. Sorry. I believe in laws that preserve rights, not make universal restrictions."

Guns are legal, with a CCW. Yet the State of Michigan says:

"Individuals licensed to carry a concealed pistol by Michigan or another state are prohibited from carrying a concealed pistol on the following premises:

A tavern where the primary source of income is the sale of alcoholic liquor by the glass consumed on the premises "

So it's not just smoking. This ban will happen, the only debate will be if the casinos are exempt. Once that is ironed out, put away your lighters!

[Haikoont]

I really hope the casinos don't get exempted. I was in Greektown last weekend and it was unbearable. Because of the poor air quality, I could only stand to stay for a half hour. I was a hundred dollars up when I left -- had the air been breathe-able, I would have stayed longer and, of course, the odds favor the house. So I guess I have a small profit thanks to the tyranny of the minority.

[ghettopalmetto]

I really hope the casinos don't get exempted. I was in Greektown last weekend and it was unbearable. Because of the poor air quality, I could only stand to stay for a half hour. I was a hundred dollars up when I left -- had the air been breathe-able, I would have stayed longer and, of course, the odds favor the house. So I guess I have a small profit thanks to the tyranny of the minority.

Tyranny of the minority, nothing. There is no law that requires bars and restaurants to permit smoking. Nor is there any provision that requires one to patronize such a place that permits smoking. It's already been pointed out that nonsmokers have numerous options if they choose not to tolerate smokers.

What will happen after enaction of the ban in Michigan, is exactly what will happen in other states and cities with similar bans. People will start to complain that they can't sit on the outdoor sidewalk or patio without smelling smoke. People will complain that smokers huddle near doorways, polluting the air they have to breathe going in and out of an establishment. That means children, people with respiratory illnesses, and the elderly will now be subject to the bane the Legislature is trying to eliminate. Smoking will be much more in public and outdoors than if it were confined to a room that you, as a mature, responsible adult, could simply choose not to enter.

I don't like coming home smelling like smoke just as much as the next person. But if you spend so much time in a bar that you contract a chronic respiratory illness strictly from second-hand smoke, you may have a drinking problem.

[milesdriven]

In November, I moved from the east side to Toledo, OH where there is currently a smoking ban in place. My neighbor owns a small bar in the city, and has chosen to ignore the ban and pay the fine, as have many others. His words were "what am I supposed to do, tell 80% of my customers to go outside to smoke?" We are a nation of entrepreneurs, and if there were a demand for a smoke-free bar, there would be more of them. When Ontario banned smoking, Casino Windsor had to lay off 300 employees. I think a compromise is in order- require establishments that allow smoking to install filtration equipment, and allow stimulus money to be loaned to businesses for installing this equipment. This will provide work for many laid-off electricians, and will ensure that thousands of bar and restaurant employees across the state keep their jobs.

[pffft]

But if you spend so much time in a bar that you contract a chronic respiratory illness strictly from second-hand smoke, you may have a drinking problem.

I have to correct your ongoing misunderstanding about how asthma/allergies work. Sitting in smoky bars does not cause asthma or allergies...that is something genetic that the afflicted already have and can't help. Irritants, like cigarette smoke, will set off an asthma attack or irritate the allergic, especially those allergic to nicotine specifically.

The asthmatic/allergy sufferer can only stand the smoky environment for so long...the after-effects are usually felt for days.

Also, gp, re your repeated posts about the horrors of people smoking outdoors, others have made fun of this but you persist. This is beyond hilarious...nobody outside, ever, has bothered me with smoke. It dissipates. It floats up up and away into outer space. There is almost never a problem, with smoking outdoors. It's in an enclosed space where we are required to breathe it into our lungs, that there's an issue.

[ghettopalmetto]

I have to correct your ongoing misunderstanding about how asthma/allergies work. Sitting in smoky bars does not cause asthma or allergies...that is something genetic that the afflicted already have and can't help. Irritants, like cigarette smoke, will set off an asthma attack or irritate the allergic, especially those allergic to nicotine specifically.

The asthmatic/allergy sufferer can only stand the smoky environment for so long...the after-effects are usually felt for days. .

I'll be sure to tell this to my asthmatic friends who smoke. It's clear they simply do not understand your point of view.

Also, gp, re your repeated posts about the horrors of people smoking outdoors, others have made fun of this but you persist. This is beyond hilarious...nobody outside, ever, has bothered me with smoke. It dissipates. It floats up up and away into outer space. There is almost never a problem, with smoking outdoors. It's in an enclosed space where we are required to breathe it into our lungs, that there's an issue.

Having lived in a few places that have enacted smoking bans, I'm just telling you what I've seen, heard, and experienced. If that's a crime, maybe you should just make minority and unpopular opinions illegal too. That way, the omnipotent majority won't have to waste time making fun.

[Haikoont]

the vast majority of restaurant and bar employees with whom I have worked have been regular smokers.

our representative democracy was never intended to ensure the rights of the majority, as it was to protect the minority from tyranny of the majority.

We need to pass this smoking ban to protect the minority of nonsmoking bar employees from the oppressive personal habits of the majority.

[Fury13]

I'll be sure to tell this to my asthmatic friends who smoke. It's clear they simply do not understand your point of view.



Having lived in a few places that have enacted smoking bans, I'm just telling you what I've seen, heard, and experienced. If that's a crime, maybe you should just make minority and unpopular opinions illegal too. That way, the omnipotent majority won't have to waste time making fun.

It doesn't matter how militant you are about this issue... you are going to lose. The vast majority of Michigan residents want the public smoking ban, and they are going to get it... if not in this legislative session, then in the next one. It is simply a matter of time.

The concept of smoking in public, enclosed places [[like the practice of spitting into cuspidors) has become obsolete. It is a 20th-century thing and we will collectively get over it.

I might add that nearly every smoker I've met makes a great effort to not direct smoke my way when socializing -- except in a bar situation. Many seem to consider a bar environment "open season" on non-smokers. Well, that is going to end. After the smoking ban takes effect, the majority of the population will once more be able to venture into bars and enjoy adult beverages without fear of being fouled by others' respiratory waste.

[Gistok]

I talked to several casino employees... it seems that one reason given for the smoking ban exemption was because Michigans Indian casinos are excempt from Michigan laws, and therefore would continue to allow smoking, and make them more attractive to smoking patrons.

Supposedly Casino Windsor's patronage dropped 20% when they first enacted a smoking ban.

[sumas]

I smoke and I also like to drink. I don't drink and drive. I also don't smoke around non smokers.

I do think it should up to private entertainment businesses to set their own standards. Many places now, are smoke free. It's their right to service their clientel as they see fit. I don't go to them, my choice. My leisure dollars are spent where I feel comfortable.

The casinos are a non issue to me since I don't gamble. One poster pointed out that nuisance things are taxed heavily. It amuses me to ponder what if all of us "scum buckets" chose not to indulge, the tax dollars will have to come from somewhere else.

To legislate anti-anything is counter productive. We will just end up spending more on enforcement. Blind [[smoking)Pigs will just pop up everywhere.