A legal Food truck: All it took was a year and 60 trips to city hall

[Hans64]

Fnemecek, I usually respect your posts and blog but many trucks do become brick and mortar, I referenced Good Girls because Detroit is so backwards I can't think of any local examples. This is something that people, young people want. They want more options, they want something fast that isn't fast food. People will see a lack of trucks as another reason Detroit is a dinosaur that will never catch up to the times and isn't worth planting roots in. Am I overselling the trucks? Absolutely but it IS another thing other cities have, that we don't. They are willing to pay taxes. They don't compete directly with restaurants, they compete with Slim Jims, brown bags and 99 cent menus. This is additional revenue. Take it.

Maybe we should protect GM and Ford and nix the light rail system too. Oh, wait.

In fact I just might go take the MAX [[light rail) to go get lunch at a food truck right now!

[Melocoton]

Yes, subsidizing one business model over another is suddenly popular.

God help us.

Someone took a big gulp of Haterade this afternoon.

Your theory rests on the assumption, unproven by you and totally unfounded when you examine the evidence from cities like New York, LA, etc., that taco trucks, much less A SINGLE taco truck, must necessarily damage a nearby regular restaurant and put it out of business. As if the economy is a zero-sum game, and the two couldn't possibly coexist. Anyway, the same argument could be used to say that no brick-and-mortar restaurants should be opened near one another, since they'll inevitably put each other out of business. The tax issue is kind of irrelevant, since I would wager you don't really know anything about El Guapo's tax burdens--but presumably they're not paying property tax, 'cause they don't own property. So I don't see the problem.

Also, I would lay off the sneering at everyone for being less enlightened than you.

[old guy]

I also agree with Anthony Bourdain when he said that a city can't really be a great city if it doesn't have good street food, or more specifically, meat on a stick.

[East Detroit]

Lots of people here who don't seem to grasp proper analogies.

If I was going to go outside for quick lunch, it would be fast food or coney island or fast in/out diner. If there was a food truck available, I would probably go there instead because it is even faster and probably cheaper because they dont have the brick overhead. So, yes, the food truck takes from the aforementioned types of restaurants.

I would not be choosing a food truck when I had time to dine or was on a date going to the Whitney.

As for Good Girls.... not sure it is an upgrade when I used to get a crepe in 15 minutes and am now told it is a "40-45 minute wait" and then get no parking validation if I dont want to wait that long for a crepe. However, I digress.

[Fnemecek]

Bah!!!!!!!

[MSUguy]

But, you know, I'm the guy who is just making things up and clinging to my straw man

Well at least we agree one one thing. How is it that other cities can have hundreds who these with no issues, but not in Detroit? Whatever, it's same tired, lame excuse that "X" will never work in Detroit.

[ghettopalmetto]

Lots of people here who don't seem to grasp proper analogies.

If I was going to go outside for quick lunch, it would be fast food or coney island or fast in/out diner. If there was a food truck available, I would probably go there instead because it is even faster and probably cheaper because they dont have the brick overhead. So, yes, the food truck takes from the aforementioned types of restaurants.

Yeah, it'd be a real crime if a food truck could figure out how to make a sandwich just as bland and shitty as Subway and sell it at a lower price.

[Fnemecek]

Bah!!!!!!!

[Patrick]

First, there's no incentive for traditional restaurants to open a second
location. If they open a food truck, it will be a replacement to their fixed
location, which still results in a net loss in tax revenue and jobs.

Depends on the location and the amount of foot traffic. Here in Rosslyn/Northern VA, we have at least 12 standard food trucks/carts within maybe 6 blocks and several of these trucks have brick and mortar restuarants that they are based out of within a few miles. I guess it isn't fair to compare since this small business district gets more foot traffic in a single day than Detroit's CBD gets in 2 weeks. I will admit that have sought out the brick and mortar establishments when I get a craving.

I was a bit skeptical about the whole food truck thing when I first moved here, but then again, this place is land-poor so it makes sense. The chain places like Quiznos and Chipotle have all tried their hardest to rid the area of the trucks but the market speaks. People want a wide-array of things that a standard one-genre eatery can't really provide. Maybe the diners that lose business directly to trucks will need to fight fire with fire and start their own truck?

[gazhekwe]

Nitter natter nitter natter. I think there are different occasions for different establishments. If I am running around town by myself, shopping, sightseeing or trolling for info on something, I am in the market for something fast and informal. A food truck would suit me a ton better than McDonald's just because it is different. If I am with a friend or partner, we would likely prefer a sitdown restaurant, not of the chain variety. I have relatives who refuse to eat anywhere but chain restaurants so if I want to eat with them, we go to Olive Garden or Old Country Buffet or whatever. It is wonderful to find a red-eye food truck open very late for a quick snack, too. There is room for all these kind of places.

My favorite food truck was a frybread and Indian taco truck at a lonely crossroads in New Mexico. It was pouring rain and we got frybread with our backs getting soaked and our fronts and frybread staying dry under the little bitty overhang above the counter. The rain quit and we got pretty dry before we were done with our treat and the conversation with the owner.

[Gistok]

Let's look at it from this perspective... gee I don't have more than a few minutes because my project is due... shall I get a granola bar from the office machine or spend 1/2 hour to an hour at a restaurant.... gee too bad there's no middle ground such as a vendor on the street where I can be there and back in just a few minutes....

OFFICE VENDING MACHINES..... THE REAL RESTAURANT KILLERS....

[[Sarcasm alert off....)

[Blueidone]

No one knows for sure how well the trucks will work here. Having worked downtown for a while, I think I would probably have gotten food from there, along with the other restaurants, fast food places and coney islands. When you are downtown at least 250 days a year, there's lots of room for variation and everyone got a little piece of my lunch money throughout the year, from the Caucus Club to McDonald's and everything in between.

[Enduro]

We should also shut down all the vendors at Eastern Market, for if there were no market surely they would have brick and mortar grocery stores within the city that would pay property taxes and solve our supermarket woes!

One supermarket for corn. One supermarket for eggs. One sup....

[Parkguy]

It isn't just here:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...ves_food-.html

[ddaydetroit]

I have 2 thoughts on this Every decent size shop in the suburbs has one of these trucks come at breaks and lunch what is the big deal ?

Second I just traveled thru Asia in June and street vendors are everywhere I loved them if I had a choice between pad se ew from a Thai street vendor or the same meal from an American Thai restaurant I would eat from most Asain street vendors first

[RO_Resident]

There is already at least one food truck that operates in the area. Jacques' Tacos parks at Village Automotive at Woodward and 13 Mile on most Saturdays.

Plus, you'll see 'roach coaches' vending trucks at larger factories or shops most lunch times.

One last thing, on any given day, there are numerous legal, quasi-legal, and outright illegal bbq pits serving up grilled chicken and ribs around on street corners around the city. Come on, you don't think that Phil's Bump Shop serving up a dark meat snack has all the proper permits, do you?

[BShea]

MY GOD, who let all these apartment-renters into the city?!?! They're not paying property taxes like condo and home owners! They're unfairly being subsidized by the city at the expense of condo owners! We have GOT to pass some laws about these freeloading apartment renters. Because, you know, we can't pick and choose winners.

[JDKeepsmiling]

. Come on, you don't think that Phil's Bump Shop serving up a dark meat snack has all the proper permits, do you?

Love it, made me spew my water all over my keyboard. What exactly is a dark meat snack? I have no idea but they are mighty tasty.

[CLAUDE G]

What we need is more established resturants. There are plenty of vacant storefronts in downtown Detroit.

Put together a plan to lease out these places at a super cheap price to stir some competition.

As far as this guys idea of parking infront of Comerica Park, that aint gonna happen as long as Mike Illitch is selling his $5 hot and nasty pizzas for $15 inside the park.

[motownmark04]

FNemecek, I'll open a coney truck outside of [[formerly) Paul G. Citkowski's Dog House Coney at Westwood and Warren. That'll really put them out of business and blight the neighborhood.

Oh, wait. They're already gone. No food truck necessary.

Let me see, here, I'll just meander down to Warren and Longacre, where I'll put Steve's Three Brothers on their asses with my homemade pierogies.

Oh, wait. They're gone, too. Damn! Again, no food truck necessary.

Let's go back the other way and park outside of Dacosta and Warren and put Santia's Pizza out of business with my pizza by the slice truck and then put Little Mexico III down the street out of its misery with a mean burrito.

You can see where this is going ...

[canuck]

There is a shit load of hot dog carts in NYC and a shit load of restaurnts, they can co-exist.

Yes, but you see a lot more hot dog carts in many areas where there arent a lot of restaurants at street level. If Detroit lacks in restaurants in CBD, then food carts and trucks could be encouraged.
I would maybe also try to bring on qualified cooks in ethnic cuisines like Portland manages to attract, and give out permits to deserving providers.

[SWMAP]

But, Motownmark: all those places you listed aren't going to see even a hot dog truck. The cool ethnic and artisan trucks want to be where the cool working people are. It's not a question of them going where there are, already, no restaurants and options. They need to be where people congregate and there are already options- and then they siphon away percentages of business.
It's just the way it goes- but from the NYT article and also from a google search I can see that municipalities view the trucks with alarm - not just old-fogey Detroit, but Nyt and Chicago and Charlotte and many others. As the article said: it's a trend that's not going away but cities are going to legislate the heck out them. Thus the 60 trips.

[mwilbert]

MY GOD, who let all these apartment-renters into the city?!?! They're not paying property taxes like condo and home owners! They're unfairly being subsidized by the city at the expense of condo owners!

This is not a very good analogy, as the renters get the property taxes passed through in their rent. The correct comparison is to homeless people, who really don't pay property taxes. And no, I don't see why homeless people or food trucks should pay property taxes.

[motownmark04]

SWMAP, my point is that if Fnemecek is worried about blight, abandonment, and further loss of tax revenue, then he shouldn't worry about blaming some food trucks.

[SWMAP]

Every little bit hurts and adds up.