A legal Food truck: All it took was a year and 60 trips to city hall

[ghettopalmetto]

Where I live, there is an artisan barbecue truck that opens for lunch several days a week. For the 12 hours-or-so a week this truck is open for business, I have yet to see a bricks-and-mortar barbecue joint close shop. By the same token, the bricks-and-mortar hot dog shops seems to coexist with the hot dog carts just fine.

We even had a lawsuit threatened when a gentleman proposed to open a taco truck located across the street from a yet-to-be Mexican restaurant. The owner of the Mexican restaurant lobbied the City, saying that she had already sunk $500,000 into her business, and that permitting the taco truck wasn't "fair". To date, the Mexican restaurant has been engaged in its building fit-out for a year, with no projected opening. Should the City be engaged in protecting the interests of someone who clearly has no idea what she's doing?


It's the City's job to regulate, but not to pick winners and losers. A City of 700,000+ people should be able to have some healthy competition. Since when is it the City's responsibility to write and enforce the business plan of an independent entrepreneur?

[Meddle]

B&M restaurants have been catering off-site for years, so why not cater on wheels for special events? Sounds like a good way to drum up business.


How are these different from the roach coach trucks that cruise factories and job sites?

[ResurgetCineribus]

I hardly think 50 years from now someone will be kicking over the bricks that used to be Detroit and saying to their fellow frontiersman, "If they only didn't let the food trucks compete with the resaurants." like Fnemecek seems to.

We all want progress for Detroit, but should it be this kind of progress? I live near the food trucks in SW Detroit and I definetely haven't stopped going to restaurants. There is a time and a place for either and until today I've never even considered the two as competitors. It would be cool to have these around downtown as it gives the area a vibrant, less threatening aesthetic.

It seems fair that a person with a truck and a dream can give it a try, this is America afterall. If a restaurant is threatened by a food truck, I'd say it's probably for good reason.

[SaintMe]

Bring on the competition!

[Fnemecek]

It's the City's job to regulate, but not to pick winners and losers.

.

But that is exactly what we're doing by allowing the food trucks to operate.

Food trucks carry a tiny fraction of tax burden that even a small restaurant would carry, but is allowed to sell the same product in the same neighborhood. If both had to pay the same taxes and fees, it would be different.

Instead, the local government is picking the winner in a food truck vs. brick and mortar fight - and we're choosing the one that contributes less tax revenue and creates fewer jobs.

[DetroitPole]

Uh oh, this could spell trouble for Opus One, Coach Insignia, the Caucus Club, and countless other downtown establishments. "Honey, look, a Taco truck! I know we have reservations at the Whitney, but what say we grab some food prepared near the street and drink 40's in Hart Plaza instead?"

Before you know it, our blight will become even more blightey, and there will be much wailing and gnashing of teeth.

[Fnemecek]

I hardly think 50 years from now someone will be kicking over the bricks that used to be Detroit and saying to their fellow frontiersman, "If they only didn't let the food trucks compete with the resaurants." like Fnemecek seems to.

Actually, they'll be saying, "If only every back in 2011 wasn't so bad at math."

But I digress.

[SWMAP]

Excellent! No anecdotes about what you think will happen or reporting from a small observational sample such as a barbeque truck not causing any observable closing of barbeque restaurants in the short-term.

Just the facts.

[Fnemecek]

Uh oh, this could spell trouble for Opus One, Coach Insignia, the Caucus Club, and countless other downtown establishments. "Honey, look, a Taco truck! I know we have reservations at the Whitney, but what say we grab some food prepared near the street and drink 40's in Hart Plaza instead?"

Right. The only restaurants in Detroit are those ones. There are no middle of the road, family style establishments within the city at all.

[Fnemecek]

Bring on the competition!

If Business A is legally required to pay $10,000 in taxes and fees while Business B only has to pay $100, how is that a competition?

[noise]

Actually, they'll be saying, "If only every back in 2011 wasn't so bad at math."

But I digress.

I think they'll be more concerned with everyone's poor grasp of English.

Look at how much we accomplish when we replace civil discourse with unsupported insults.

[ghettopalmetto]

Instead, the local government is picking the winner in a food truck vs. brick and mortar fight - and we're choosing the one that contributes less tax revenue and creates fewer jobs.

...and coincidentally, pays less rent to the downtown power brokers.

Certainly, you're not foolish enough to think that everyone should be forced to sit down at a table for an hour if they want to eat lunch. Food trucks and bricks-and-mortar restaurants cater to entirely different clientele. If you have only 15 minutes for lunch, you're not going to eat at a restaurant, but you might be inclined to pick up something "fast" from a truck.

And believe it or not, food trucks actually employ people who might be able to make an income and support their families, in turn spending their money in the local economy. And who knows?--many a food truck has become a bricks-and-mortar restaurant over time. Not everyone has half a million bucks for fit-out of a space, but lowering the hurdles for accessing the marketplace can only help people start their own businesses. But I suppose you'd rather have food truck operators standing in the breadline on the public dole....

If a well-capitalized bricks-and-mortar can't compete with a part-time operation with a limited menu, then I question whether said restaurant is worth half a shit in the first place.

You're espousing a myopic point-of-view here, Fnemecek. Do you think Gray's Papaya gives a rats ass about all the hot dog carts in Manhattan, even though they sell the EXACT SAME PRODUCT? Why do you insist on strong-arming the little guy, when the bricks-and-mortar places clearly have a lot more capital to leverage? It's this kind of pissy anti-business attitude that keeps people like the Ilitches deciding your destiny for you.

[noise]

Hypothetically speaking, if a food truck can put a brick & mortar restaurant out of business...can't a brick & mortar restaurant put a food truck out of business?

[Wintersmommy]

anybody try it? hows the food...cause thats really what matters

[MSUguy]

Is it my fault that you're bad at math?

If 10 of these trucks succeed and 1 regular restaurant goes under as a result, it's still a net loss in terms of jobs and tax revenue. Less tax revenue and fewer jobs will invariably equal more urban blight.

It amazes me that our educational system is so bad that people actually think that this will be a positive for the community.

Go to cities like LA and Portland who have hundreds of these and the same lame arguments about brick and mortar restaurants were made. These haven't driven fixed restaurants out of business they have actually have driven foot traffic ,so maybe you should educate yourself and read about the success of these in other cities before spout off on how bad it's going to be for the city.

[ghettopalmetto]

Go to cities like LA and Portland who have hundreds of these and the same lame arguments about brick and mortar restaurants were made. These haven't driven fixed restaurants out of business they have actually have driven foot traffic ,so maybe you should educate yourself and read about the success of these in other cities before spout off on how bad it's going to be for the city.

In a lot of cases, because of the lower overhead and ability to have limited hours, food trucks are successful at places where a bricks-and-mortar restaurant would lose their shirt. For instance--a venture that caters primarily to downtown office workers on their lunch break.

[Hypestyles]

where are the food trucks in southwest detroit? which ones have good food..

[fryar]

This is great news.

It's about time the city got some food trucks, and it's nice to see The City get out of its own way.

[ResurgetCineribus]

where are the food trucks in southwest detroit? which ones have good food..

I haven't been to many, but there's always one in the H&J Foods parking lot. 3923 W. Vernor Highway. It pretty much just has tacos, and the good coca-cola from Mexico that's made with cane sugar... Although, I don't think this one counts as a truck since all of its wheels are flat and the rims are beginning to dig into the concrete.

[jsmyers]

The only place that I agree with Fnemecek is the possibility that the city is giving away public real estate to truck operators.

If a food truck is going to use a parking space on the street, or a city-owned lot, then they should pay a reasonable and market rate for the use of the property. I'd apply Donald Shoup's ideas about parking so something that is not entirely different.

I haven't read up on all of the material relating to this issue, but one question I have is how are business and restaurant fees different for bricks and motor vs truck? These sorts of fees should be equal for both. If I'm missing something and they are not, then I agree with Frank.

Otherwise, bring on the food trucks. I respectfully disagree with my distant friend. I don't think that businessness should be required to provide amenities [[seating). I'm convinced that food trucks produce entrepreneurial opportunities [[something that Detroit needs) and increase street life [[another thing that Detroit needs more of).

[iheartthed]

The only place that I agree with Fnemecek is the possibility that the city is giving away public real estate to truck operators.

If a food truck is going to use a parking space on the street, or a city-owned lot, then they should pay a reasonable and market rate for the use of the property. I'd apply Donald Shoup's ideas about parking so something that is not entirely different.

I haven't read up on all of the material relating to this issue, but one question I have is how are business and restaurant fees different for bricks and motor vs truck? These sorts of fees should be equal for both. If I'm missing something and they are not, then I agree with Frank.

Otherwise, bring on the food trucks. I respectfully disagree with my distant friend. I don't think that businessness should be required to provide amenities [[seating). I'm convinced that food trucks produce entrepreneurial opportunities [[something that Detroit needs) and increase street life [[another thing that Detroit needs more of).

So are we gonna start requiring ice cream trucks to do the same? Are ice cream trucks to blame for the lack of Baskin Robbins and Coldstones in the city?!

[Fnemecek]

Certainly, you're not foolish enough to think that everyone should be forced to sit down at a table for an hour if they want to eat lunch. Food trucks and bricks-and-mortar restaurants cater to entirely different clientele. If you have only 15 minutes for lunch, you're not going to eat at a restaurant, but you might be inclined to pick up something "fast" from a truck.

Of course, not everyone is up for that. This is why drive-thru, walk-up, and carry-out options exist at restaurants everywhere. As for food trucks, I'd be fine with them if they either only operated in conditions where they aren't likely to pose competition for the brick and mortar restaurants or where they have to carry the same tax burden as conventional restaurants.

But I suppose you'd rather have food truck operators standing in the breadline on the public dole....

Wow! And some folks say I'm over the top.

If I food truck can't carry the same tax burden that a conventional restaurant does, and they're not willing to operate in a restricted area, they have no business competing. Government should not subsidize food trucks at the expense of those who create more jobs than they do.

You're espousing a myopic point-of-view here, Fnemecek. Do you think Gray's Papaya gives a rats ass about all the hot dog carts in Manhattan, even though they sell the EXACT SAME PRODUCT?

Gray's Papaya also doesn't care about McDonald's. Of course, McDonald's has to pay the same taxes and fees that Gray's Papaya does.

What's your point exactly?

Why do you insist on strong-arming the little guy, when the bricks-and-mortar places clearly have a lot more capital to leverage?

Sometimes the little guy has spent years working for someone else in order to save up enough money to open a restaurant. Why do you want to strong arm him?

What's wrong with a level playing field?

It's this kind of pissy anti-business attitude that keeps people like the Ilitches deciding your destiny for you.

When did a basic sense of fairness become a "pissy anti-business attitude"?

And why do you think we need to get rid of fairness in order to keep the Ilitches from deciding my destiny?

[Fnemecek]

Go to cities like LA and Portland who have hundreds of these and the same lame arguments about brick and mortar restaurants were made. These haven't driven fixed restaurants out of business they have actually have driven foot traffic ,so maybe you should educate yourself and read about the success of these in other cities before spout off on how bad it's going to be for the city.

Umm... Maybe you should educate yourself before you criticize me for not educating myself.

LA has strict guidelines on food trucks and they're making them more restrictive, not less.

What's your source that food trucks create more foot traffic than traditional restaurants?

[Fnemecek]

In a lot of cases, because of the lower overhead and ability to have limited hours, food trucks are successful at places where a bricks-and-mortar restaurant would lose their shirt. For instance--a venture that caters primarily to downtown office workers on their lunch break.

Yeah, except that downtown office workers on their lunch break is the bread and butter of conventional restaurants. You know, the people who are paying all of those taxes and providing all of those jobs.

[Fnemecek]

Hypothetically speaking, if a food truck can put a brick & mortar restaurant out of business...can't a brick & mortar restaurant put a food truck out of business?

Not likely, since the brick & mortar restaurant has to carry a higher tax burden.