How The Car Destroyed Detroit

DetroitDad · May-26-09, 10:31 PM

Retroit, thanks, that was very good.

The name of this thread was actually from a comment made by a fellow forumer at the DetroitYES Picnic. We were all crowded around one of Gnome's map from 1915, and one of the other forumers [[I think it may have been Gertrude) mentioned that it seemed like the automobile did more harm than good. I guess that that is debatable, and all blame really goes nowhere anyway.

I do think that cars must have been a relief for people to get out of the overcrowded Detroit of yesterday, and must have been great for animal rights. There is no doubt that Detroit was once a crowded, dirty, and dangerous industrial city, with the car being a improvement for daily life. However, it was an improvement with consequences, and I think maybe it's time to improve our society even more, beyond a car only culture into a culture with options; a safer, more social, more creative, more family oriented and physically fit culture. Americans deserve better than suburbia.

Correction; That was Gnome's map from 1915, Gistok was showing his great book on old theaters!

**rid0617** · May-26-09, 11:55 PM

Don't know if it pertains but my actual grandfather was killed on Detroit streets. He was driving an REA delivery truck and was hit head on by a Detroit city bus.

**DetroitPlanner** · May-27-09, 01:32 PM

Originally Posted by ghettopalmetto

Detroitplanner, there is nothing "natural" or "evolutionary" about gutting cities for cars. All you have to do is read the history books. There was a methodical procedure that was followed to recreate cityscapes for cars over people. Detroit is NOT the outcome of successful urban evolution. If this were the case, do you think Detroit would LOOK the way it does?

If you think that no one ever lambasts Robert Moses for the horrific mistakes he made in New York, then you certainly don't read much about your own profession. Moses wanted to go even further than he actually did. There were plans for the West Side Highway [[now West Avenue) to extend all the way downtown [[to the WTC site) and I believe there were plans for a cross-town expressway in the vicinity of 14th Street. Instead of a web of freeways [[like Detroit has), New York was able to save neighborhoods like Greenwich Village, TriBeCa, and SoHo. It was the "nostalgic" people like Jane Jacobs who banded together to stop the freeways and allow these types of neighborhoods to remain.

I don't think you're understanding the emphasis of my 'thank goodness'. My thank goodness is that now we have mechanisms in place to stop this from happening. Robert Moses is typified as being just totally wreckless. However as someone who has driven on his parkways and have visited his parks, and studied him simply due to the fact that he was easily the most controverisal planner around to learn how he got the way he was found him to be a person where too much power was concentrated. He was largely responsible for the reforms that I advocate [[more public involvement, environmental impact statements, mitigation) largely due to the contreversial nature of his actions. Robert Moses actually espoused the liberal values of his parents and started out working for NYS Park System. He got this idea for developing parkways to allow the public to visit places like Jones Beach, Fire Island, and the Niagra fronteier. He was allowed to see these projects through development and they were wildly successful. Sone he was in charge of the parks department. He was also put in charge of the state highway department where he worked on incorporating the parkway concepts into the interstate system. When the tri-boughough expressway and bridges were built however is when he had his downfall. He proposed huge projects that involved the moving of people and the decimation of neighborhoods in Queens, the Bronx and Manhatten. So the state put him in charge of the housing department as well.

Here we have a public servant trying to do way too much. There were no laws in place in how to do things. Therefore, some of the stuff he did was successfull but came at tremendous costs that only became apparant after the fact. You can't argue that we should be more like NYC yet not look at some of the major mistakes they made. Its been a while since I've been in the Bronx, but I suppose that many of the tennaments are still standing there and while I'm sure some things have improved, some things have gotten worse too. Mistakes happen there is no question that they do, the big question is do we allow ourselves to move on, or to we just long for the days of Hot Fudge Creme Puffs in every neighborhood? I say we move on, and accept that maybe those Creme Puffs were not the best thing for us afterall and learn not to eat as many of them.

DetroitDad · May-27-09, 04:49 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

I don't think you're understanding the emphasis of my 'thank goodness'. My thank goodness is that now we have mechanisms in place to stop this from happening. Robert Moses is typified as being just totally wreckless. However as someone who has driven on his parkways and have visited his parks, and studied him simply due to the fact that he was easily the most controverisal planner around to learn how he got the way he was found him to be a person where too much power was concentrated. He was largely responsible for the reforms that I advocate [[more public involvement, environmental impact statements, mitigation) largely due to the contreversial nature of his actions. Robert Moses actually espoused the liberal values of his parents and started out working for NYS Park System. He got this idea for developing parkways to allow the public to visit places like Jones Beach, Fire Island, and the Niagra fronteier. He was allowed to see these projects through development and they were wildly successful. Sone he was in charge of the parks department. He was also put in charge of the state highway department where he worked on incorporating the parkway concepts into the interstate system. When the tri-boughough expressway and bridges were built however is when he had his downfall. He proposed huge projects that involved the moving of people and the decimation of neighborhoods in Queens, the Bronx and Manhatten. So the state put him in charge of the housing department as well.

Here we have a public servant trying to do way too much. There were no laws in place in how to do things. Therefore, some of the stuff he did was successfull but came at tremendous costs that only became apparant after the fact. You can't argue that we should be more like NYC yet not look at some of the major mistakes they made. Its been a while since I've been in the Bronx, but I suppose that many of the tennaments are still standing there and while I'm sure some things have improved, some things have gotten worse too. Mistakes happen there is no question that they do, the big question is do we allow ourselves to move on, or to we just long for the days of Hot Fudge Creme Puffs in every neighborhood? I say we move on, and accept that maybe those Creme Puffs were not the best thing for us afterall and learn not to eat as many of them.

The idea is to keep the hot fudge, but put it on something else, or switch to a light version. Keep what worked and get rid of what didn't. The problem is that you have to better what we have now, and many people aren't going to want things to change at all; a problem when you find yourself on the wrong road.