Cass tech name change???

[gazhekwe]

Continuing the side argument with Retroit:

Europeans [[and Middle Easterners and Orientals) simply had advantages due to geography, natural resources, greater populations, etc. that enabled them to develop earlier.

This is a common misconception. The Europeans had superior weaponry and a lot more practice at fighting extensive wars. That is the ONLY advantage they had.

To compare the European civilization with civilizations they encountered in the Americas in a way that disparages the New World civilizations is the quintessential ingredient of Manifest Destiny. It isn't like ours, so it must be inferior and therefore we are justified in attempting to eradicate it. We can beat up on them so let;s get on with it.

[edgewood]

Or at least wait about 500 years to make sure the person has been properly vetted.

Yes - like we did with Christopher Columbus !

Oh...wait...

[jtf1972]

Is Martin Luther King Jr. High School promoting promiscuity? No. Men are flawed. Lewis Cass was a man who through today's logic made grievous errors, but they should not detract from what he did bring to society. Would his name be attached to a school on a reservation? No, but the name of a great Chief likely would be, who killed many non-indians, and indians alike. I wouldn't have a problem with that. Speaking of which, we will need to rename Pontiac!

That Watson is behind this is no shock. I used to work with her. We stopped speaking, even though we had to work together in the same room, just me & her. I simply couldn't think of anything productive to say to her, and she wasn't the nicest person you ever did meet...

[gnome]

The Europeans had superior weaponry and a lot more practice at fighting extensive wars. That is the ONLY advantage they had.

Don't mean to intrude into your perfectly good argument, but I always thought that writing is what gave the europeans the edge. Massive numbers of europeans could read what had been written by others, therefore multiplying, by a factor of 10, knowledge with each generation. Writing gave europeans the ablity to not just build better things, but it gave them the ability to out-fox the foxes.

Moreover, europeans were just more egalitarian in teaching their populace to read and write. In contrast to Far and Mid East cultures, where the educated class occupied a seperate and segregated class, in europe the ability to read and write was more catholic in application. Not saying it was universal, just more so than any other culture.

I believe the reluctance - in certain cultures - to allow women to read and write is a hold-over from the time when only the elites could go to school, but I digress.

The europeans came here, wrote stuff down and sent it back for others to read. New folks arrived and so on and so forth.

As valuable as oral traditons and petraglyphs are within the ethnographic study of a culture, it sure can't beat a good set of books, a compass and a few maps. I don't know why first nation peoples didn't develop writing beyond elemental symbols, I just know they didn't and that is what placed them at a huge disadvantage.

[Pam]

This is a common misconception. The Europeans had superior weaponry and a lot more practice at fighting extensive wars. That is the ONLY advantage they had.

Resistance to certain diseases was another advantage. I thought more Native Americans were wiped out by diseases brought from Europe than actual warfare.

[vetalalumni]

It is very difficult to have 2 groups of people with such disparity living side by side. The Indians had to be removed.

Such very offensive statements, and with very little subsequent rebuke. But alas, freedom of speech.

The difficulty justified the end?

"Removed"!!!

[irish_mafia]

There was a war...Injuns lost

[gnome]

Everyone is entitled to be stupid, you're abusing the privilege.

[irish_mafia]

Being stupid would be exemplified by those who don't acknowledge history because it doesn't fit their present sensibilities.

If the Europeans didn't come here and take over, Gnome would be off in Lilliput bitching about something else.

Louis Cass was a fine guy. Have a cocktail and a cigar and salute him.

Perhaps Dave Bing will actually do something great while in office and then we can have a justification for a new building instead of renaming old buildings for for friends and family of the latest ruling class of Detroit who don't deserve more than a swift kick in the pants.

[vetalalumni]

There was a war...Injuns lost

Nice one tough guy.

[irish_mafia]

They did lose. How would you like to rewrite that bit of history?

[gnome]

No one disputes the reality that white folks left Europe and floated in this this direction. No one disputes that there were wars between the natives and the immigrants.

But I do dispute your use of a pejorative. Just because you have internet access at the library doesn't give you the right to insult people, to use terms that are known to be harmful. I enjoy reading your posts as I feel they give a little balance to the left-leaning status of the forum, but using denigrating language is not only wrong but it shows that you have a narrow and vapid understanding of history, as well as an inablity to correctly use language.

As a Republican, I object to you wrapping the mantle of being a conservative around your consumptive shoulders. Your jaundiced eye, vile sputumic utterances have no credence here, little man.

Be gone, before someone drops a house on you too.

[irish_mafia]

Fabulous use of the extended vocabulary along with the allegorical response to address my innuendo regarding the diminutive stature of the writer!

I find you entertaining as well....and also wrong

[gazhekwe]

Good point about mutually understandable written word, though many many Europeans were not literate in any language. There were written languages here, and they were mutually understandable to many nations. That the writings were largely pictographic does not detract from their value.

Also so good point about the disease factor. Euro-diseases that were brand new to the immune systems of the residents of this continent were a highly effective leveler. The deaths of a good 90% of the original people did a lot of damage to the wealth of historic, medical, astronomical, engineering and agricultural knowledge that was here. Try losing 90% of your knowledge base and see what resources remain.

The Europeans came here and determined, through Manifest Destiny, that the people that were already here were less than human, so they used any means available to rid themselves of their troublesome hosts. That is the reprehensible and objectionable part of the history that must be acknowledged.

Removal was the end result of lies told by the US government to gain peace and acquiescence. Once that was achieved and the natives were confined in their limited lands with restricted access to food, water and medicines, it was easy to decide they might as well be put somewhere out of the way, like in the lands of other natives who were not asked if they wanted these people dumped into their already limited areas. Once those lands were wanted. and it took less than one generation, the native residents were again attacked, and forced into even more restricted areas, with even less ability to obtain food and other necessities.

Maybe it sounds like and easy and great and perfectly fair solution to you. If so, it shows your complete failure to think things through, and realize the consequences of removing people from their settled areas where they had their food, medicine and water all figured out, and sending them to completely different ecosystems where everything was different, and there were other people already there who didn't want them.

[irish_mafia]

Lands were taken from other peoples throughout the history of the world. Spoils go to the victors.

Were we kinder to Germany and Japan than to the Native Americans? Hell yeah.

That said, it is what it is and in other lands, similar or worse fates were left to the losers of the battles. We just seem to spend a lot of time dwelling on the injustice of America as if it was unique. In fact, we should be celebrating the fact that the injustices are the exception not the rule for this country.

[Bearinabox]

Lands were taken from other peoples throughout the history of the world. Spoils go to the victors.

Were we kinder to Germany and Japan than to the Native Americans? Hell yeah.

That said, it is what it is and in other lands, similar or worse fates were left to the losers of the battles. We just seem to spend a lot of time dwelling on the injustice of America as if it was unique. In fact, we should be celebrating the fact that the injustices are the exception not the rule for this country.

It's unjust wherever it happens. We, in America, dwell on things that happened in America because that's where we are and who we are. When analyzing our history, we should call each individual event like we see it, not decide that since we think of ourselves as basically good people, all the not-so-good stuff we did is either justified or doesn't count.

[gazhekwe]

You are ignoring most of what I said, --mafia. It isn't just the atrocities perpetrated by the US in promoting settlement of the continent by its white citizens at the expense of people of color. You need to know, the injustices to American Indians continue to this day. This country, meaning all the people in it, including the statistically insignificant, are complicit in the continuing deceit and injustice.

Did you know that it was unlawful for American Indians to practice their religion until 1978? That included all Indian medicine, cultural and spiritual teachings. Some aspects are still illegal. Can you name any other religion outlawed in this land founded on religious freedom?

Did you know that funds paid by private entities for use of Indian land is paid to trust fund kept by the BIA? Did you know that said trust fund cannot account for many billions of dollars that were paid into this fund for the benefit Indian tribes? Did you know that the BIA has given up on trying to account for that money, and that this stance has been agreed to by a Federal District Court which then awarded the Tribes just a tiny fraction of the missing amount? This matter is on appeal to the Federal Court of Appeals. http://www.indiantrust.com/

There are many other examples of injustices and inequalities, not just the r

[irish_mafia]

Gazhekwe,

You are right. I was being too flippant regarding an issue that is clearly close to your heart. I apologize.

I hope that the current injustices can be resolved.

[gazhekwe]

Migwech, Irish_mafia. [[Thank you) I appreciate that.