CityLoft by Somerset Collection on Woodward

[DetroitPlanner]

Does the Forbes Company have an interest in any of the loft developments in the area?

4,000 sq ft don't seem like a whole lot of space. Its going to be interesting to see what this looks like.

Its nice to see this happen though I would think that an Old Navy and Family Dollar would better service the local population. As folks say ya gotta crawl before you can walk.

[stasu1213]

They did. The second GM stopped subsidizing retail Brooks Brothers left....which is the second time BB left downtown. Jos A Bank remains... to echo someone above, perhaps Needless Markup, Coach or kate spade is a bit to ...optimistic? The Gap, maybe even a Banana might work though. and yes... 3 days a week in a temporary space is definitely "walking".

Brooks Brothers wasn't in the Winter Gardens It was where "The Runway" store is. I don't understand why stores such as "The Runway" Jos A Bank, Sams the Tailor, and Pure Detroit are the only stores that are in the RenCen. Are subsidies given to them? I do understand the push to having retail along the main drag. The Winter Gardens would be an excellent place for a Neiman Marcus, Coach, and Ann Taylor if those stores prove to be successful during the time at CityLoft. The less exclusive stores such as Old Navy, The Gap, Footlocker, Levis store, etc could line Merchants Row. I am still excited about this event. Dave Bing is beginning to look good now


W

[English]

GM Headquarters should try this experiment in their Winter Gardens. Security will have to be tight on Merchants row during this period. My a private security force should be hired if Pugh and co don't have the money to have police to patrol heavily on foot or on bicycles

I'm confused about why retail has struggled so much at the RenCen. It's struggled for as long as I can remember, at least since I was a teenager.

Also agree about the importance of security. Hipsters aren't all that brand conscious and don't frequent Neiman Marcus, but brands are the currency of the 'hood. That said, I do hope it does well!

[stasu1213]

I'm confused about why retail has struggled so much at the RenCen. It's struggled for as long as I can remember, at least since I was a teenager.

Also agree about the importance of security. Hipsters aren't all that brand conscious and don't frequent Neiman Marcus, but brands are the currency of the 'hood. That said, I do hope it does well!

Parts of the RenCen was like a mall itself with some high end stores located in the RenCen in the 1970s and early 80s. Employees who worked in the RenCen started shopping where they had lived. Many of them lived in the suburbs where they felt safe where they shopped. It was always difficult to navigate your way around the RenCen back then. The positive side of that was that shoplifters and others who were doing crime had a time getting out of the complex. GM had purchased the building in 1996 and remodeled the RenCen. There was a promise to open shops at the RenCen which was put on hold. Maybe better things will come to the RenCen. I was told that a management company out of Houston manages the RenCen and had done a poor job getting retail in the bulding

[rbdetsport]

I was told that a management company out of Houston manages the RenCen and had done a poor job getting retail in the bulding

Yes, the company would be Hines. If I'm not mistaken, they also manage a few other buildings in the downtown area, or at least they used too. One Detroit Center maybe? But anyways, I can remember them making a lot of promises about the RenCen, riverfront, and area around it. They were supposed to develop a condominium tower on the lot near Atwater and Beaubian. Anyone remember what that was called? They announced it during the first River Days Festival.

[Wintersmommy]

ohhh Gap How I love thee...i shall shop you on my lunch break

[DinNC]

I personally think this maybe a good first steps to bring retail back downtown, but I still think the main objective before retail should be jobs. If the powers that be can bring more and more good paying jobs to the CBD and bring those workers to live downtown I think then higher end retail such as this will in better position to succeed. Of course I don't know anything about what these stores look for in an area's demographics, but not sure if it calls for a couch or saks. we'll see. I hope it does great.

[stasu1213]

Security should be the second objective. Not only will workers who work downtown shop at the stores but visitors who have good paying jobs would shop at the upcoming stores also. There will be need for police officers patrolling on foot, bicycle, or scooters through the downtown area. I am surprise that council nor the mayor inserted police cadets to patrol the areas of downtown. I give change to panhandlers at times but I don't want to see them harass shoppers or anyone else who are trying to enjoy being downtown. Adopt the spirit of Guilianni.

[softailrider]

I'm confused about why retail has struggled so much at the RenCen. It's struggled for as long as I can remember, at least since I was a teenager.

Also agree about the importance of security. Hipsters aren't all that brand conscious and don't frequent Neiman Marcus, but brands are the currency of the 'hood. That said, I do hope it does well!

To me, a person who is downtown several times a month, it's about the parking. If the Ren Cen had any retail I was interested in I wouldn't use it. Who wants to pay to park in a lot to have the privledge of navagating those buildings? I've never found the place to be user / pedestrian friendly at all.

[cramerro]

Ramblings of a downtown worker... I think this is a great idea. 4,000 sf is not much space, but it should be a great test for interest without over-extending the effort. I'd say IMHO they are looking to cater more to the people who work in the area than downtown residents... people who work at Compuware and for Quicken Loans are generally pretty well off, I'd say. A Family Dollar or other necessities store is on the list of needs, too... but there is already the new Jazz market and a CVS within two blocks of this location and I for one hope I never see a Family Dollar on Woodward south of I-75.

I personally think this maybe a good first steps to bring retail back downtown, but I still think the main objective before retail should be jobs. If the powers that be can bring more and more good paying jobs to the CBD and bring those workers to live downtown I think then higher end retail such as this will in better position to succeed. Of course I don't know anything about what these stores look for in an area's demographics, but not sure if it calls for a couch or saks. we'll see. I hope it does great.

... as far as priorities, I think this IS a part of job 1, which is bringing more jobs into the CBD. It's a chicken-or-egg argument, but I think part of the reason Quicken Loans is supporting this is part of attracting more jobs and more people to work and live downtown, instead of making the 'pioneers' who are earlier to move downtown build up enough mass that they have to put something in. Why not add some fuel to the fire and get retail in while the momentum is building.

One beef I hear working down here is that you can't do any errands e.g. shopping on your lunch break or after work. Having this and other things like this is always a positive if it can keep going. Looking forward to walking by during construction this month!

[Danny]

YAY BING!

Some much needed exotic mini Somerset retail. It hop it works perfectly, then other glamourous retail will follow. Coleman Young should have done that in the mid 1970s.

[hybridy]

Yes, the company would be Hines. If I'm not mistaken, they also manage a few other buildings in the downtown area, or at least they used too. One Detroit Center maybe? But anyways, I can remember them making a lot of promises about the RenCen, riverfront, and area around it. They were supposed to develop a condominium tower on the lot near Atwater and Beaubian. Anyone remember what that was called? They announced it during the first River Days Festival.

you're thinking of the failed RenShore Condos...
http://www.renshorecondos.com/

[Hypestyles]

Parts of the RenCen was like a mall itself with some high end stores located in the RenCen in the 1970s and early 80s. Employees who worked in the RenCen started shopping where they had lived. Many of them lived in the suburbs where they felt safe where they shopped. It was always difficult to navigate your way around the RenCen back then. The positive side of that was that shoplifters and others who were doing crime had a time getting out of the complex. GM had purchased the building in 1996 and remodeled the RenCen. There was a promise to open shops at the RenCen which was put on hold. Maybe better things will come to the RenCen. I was told that a management company out of Houston manages the RenCen and had done a poor job getting retail in the bulding

a management group out of Houston.. why not out of detroit/michigan.. ah well..

[dtowncitylover]

What stores were once at the RenCen? Brooks Brothers was one, but were there other upscale stores there too?

[miketoronto1]

I hope Detroit continues to put a focus on local unique stores. The chains while also needed in a big city downtown, should not be the only option, as it is local stores that really have a vested interest in the city, and will draw the crowds.

[corktownyuppie]

I hope Detroit continues to put a focus on local unique stores. The chains while also needed in a big city downtown, should not be the only option, as it is local stores that really have a vested interest in the city, and will draw the crowds.

The problem is that local stores don't draw the crowds and foot traffic, especially from upper middle class households with discretionary income. Given a choice between 7 local shops on Woodward vs. 5 local shops plus Starbucks and an urban-designed Target store, the latter will win every time.

I agree that we don't want to look like the chain store capitols that are Hall Rd. or "downtown" Canton. But the problem right now is a combination of reality and perception. For example, there is a perception that there are no grocery stores in the City. Of course, that's ridiculous...but the problem is that there are no major chains. This is why Whole Foods would be such a big stunner if Detroit lands it. It will start moving the perception that there isn't shopping in Detroit.

Think about a restaurant like Slow's. Slow's is always packed. They had to add a carry-out auxiliary store. They're expanding their current restaurant. And it draws from people all over the metropolitan area, and even has brand recognition nationwide because of its exposure on the Food Network. But even with the success story that is, there is a large -- very large -- population within Suburban Metro Detroit that hasn't heard of it, let alone been there.

But if you tell these skeptics that a Whole Foods opened up downtown [[especially if its successful for a sustainable period), that's a brand name which people associate with high-income families and wealth. For those people who are ignorant to the development going on downtown, they can't deny the power of an endorsement by such a brand. And if they come down to check it out, maybe they'll stay and see the cool indie spots that add personality and charm.

If you bring foot traffic, there'll be plenty, plenty of room for small indie retailers to thrive. But we need to bring down some anchor tenants to pave the way and provide some steady, reliable shoppers in volume.


I don't think you'll have a problem with local unique stores.

[DetBill]

I have always thought a store like Kohls would do very well downtown,, right price range, attractive enough but not high end clothing and a clean retail concept and mix of products that everyone relates to due to good marketing. They could easily draw from both workers, residents and visitors alike.. Our sales tax is always attractive to out of towners to buy things they get home when they are here.. Always, know your market before you locate, its called market research.
Btw , a friend who works at Crate Barrell at Somerset says their sales are through the roof lately, highest ever, so someone is spending.

[casscorridor]

Whole Foods won't build a store without the promise of light-rail to feed it customers, and nor will Target.

[Gistok]

What stores were once at the RenCen? Brooks Brothers was one, but were there other upscale stores there too?

Starting in 1977 when the RenCen opened... there was an Ungaro's, Givenchy, Cartier's Jewelers, and 2 other very high end luxury stores... they were gone within a few years for lack of traffic.

[miketoronto1]

The problem with the expensive stores in the RenCen in the 70's was that like Tower City in Cleveland, they thought high end retail would draw people downtown and save downtown.
Just like Tower City, the high end retail did not survive and all the high end stores closed down.

Our cities are starting to learn that big mega projects do not always work at reviving the downtown area, unless you tackle all the issues that were causing the decline in the first place.

[Hypestyles]

do the somerset-detroit plans include restaurants? just curious..

[cramerro]

No restaurants - it's basically one first-floor storefront - only 4,000 sf. A whole suburban restuarant is in the 4,000-5,000 sf range.

Also I know a few people who worked/work at the Express in Somerset and they are top 25 nationally in revenue. A few of their stores are/were expanding also recently even during the downturn.

[corktownyuppie]

The problem with the expensive stores in the RenCen in the 70's was that like Tower City in Cleveland, they thought high end retail would draw people downtown and save downtown.
Just like Tower City, the high end retail did not survive and all the high end stores closed down.

Our cities are starting to learn that big mega projects do not always work at reviving the downtown area, unless you tackle all the issues that were causing the decline in the first place.

One problem with the plan in the 70s had to be that it was in the Ren Cen. I live within a 3 minute drive of the Ren Cen and I hardly ever go there to see a movie or have dinner. I can't imagine a more un-user friendly place to visit. The interior is a total maze. It's nuts.

The reason why I'm advocating high-end retail is because some of those people who have the disposal income to shop at Somerset Mall are starting to move back into the Midtown/Downtown area. It's not so much, "If you build it, they will come".

It's more like..."They're starting to come and more are on the way. Build it so that we can keep the momentum going."

[gthomas]

Hope your right..

One problem with the plan in the 70s had to be that it was in the Ren Cen. I live within a 3 minute drive of the Ren Cen and I hardly ever go there to see a movie or have dinner. I can't imagine a more un-user friendly place to visit. The interior is a total maze. It's nuts.

The reason why I'm advocating high-end retail is because some of those people who have the disposal income to shop at Somerset Mall are starting to move back into the Midtown/Downtown area. It's not so much, "If you build it, they will come".

It's more like..."They're starting to come and more are on the way. Build it so that we can keep the momentum going."

[Gistok]

I agree that the RenCen was a maze of confusion... but sadly even mini-malls like New Center One, which was not hard to traverse, seemed to fail.