Grosse Pointe Park Offering $350 Rent Subsidies to College Students

[bailey]

I hate to ruin the schadenfreude party, but GP is doing just fine. However, if I was a cynical person I'd also wonder why GP folks with deep pockets were setting up foundations to entice childless college students to populate an area that is usually a place where DPS refugees find a first foot hold in the district. but I'm not a cynical person...

[mwilbert]

Personally, I don't give a crap how my future child's peers score on the ACT, so long as he or she is well-prepared.

It is true that mixing up educational quality with student quality is a problem when evaluating schools and school districts. On the other hand, students who can't do the work tend to be kind of disruptive, so without pretty aggressive tracking it is entirely likely that both will suffer as student quality diminishes.

Another thing to keep in mind is that the right school for your child isn't something you can determine from some kind of rating, at least not in isolation. My daughter attended school in a high-quality, affluent school district. After an academically successful stretch in the junior high school, she refused to attend the high school as she hated the school and most of the people in it. My wife and I didn't much like it either, as the erratic homework load screwed up her outside activities. I'm sure the school did a good job for many of my neighbors, but it didn't work so well for her.

A friend of my daughter was in the same junior high, but switched to a highly-regarded charter school. Then they decided that the math curriculum was inadequate, so they did outside tutoring. Then they decided the whole school was inadequate, and sent her back to the junior high. But I have other neighbors who love the charter and think it has been great for their kids.

Kids attend schools, not school districts, and schools have a lot of qualities beyond their test scores. That isn't to say that in the absence of other information, picking a higher-scoring school district isn't a reasonable thing to do, but rather that your mileage may vary. Certainly my daughter's did.

[bartock]

[QUOTE=BrushStart;255072]True, but you're conflating the issues. Simply because the overall performance of a school goes down based on the type of people who attend it, does not mean the quality of education the school provides is lacking. If the educators are good and the curriculum is good, then a kid can get a good education, even though half of his classmates don't do their homework and study nil. DPS has systemic problems with corruption, lazy educators, and lack of funding. Grosee Pointe North, not so much. In fact, the quality of education you get at GPN vs GPS might be the same, but if GPN has more families and students that don't care about learning than GPS, then GPN's overall scores will go down, despite delivering an equivalent product. Personally, I don't give a crap how my future child's peers score on the ACT, so long as he or she is well-prepared. The fact that parents generalize certain numbers without delving any deeper indicates to me that their own education was somehow lacking.[/QUOTE]

Well, you'd have to be a parent, then. [[Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but congrats if you have one on the way).

Personally, I DO give a crap about the peers of my children and what they do in school. They spend much more time at school around the kids they go to school with than they do with me. I'm guessing that pretty much any parent you ask will say if given the option of having their child go to school with motivated kids who get good grades versus unmotivated kids who get bad grades, they will go with the first option every time. And, generally speaking, good curriculum begats good learners and good grades. There is no magic potion and there are no absolutes...parents play odds and these are the odds.

[bartock]

I hate to ruin the schadenfreude party, but GP is doing just fine. However, if I was a cynical person I'd also wonder why GP folks with deep pockets were setting up foundations to entice childless college students to populate an area that is usually a place where DPS refugees find a first foot hold in the district. but I'm not a cynical person...

I must be a cynical person then, because I mentioned that earlier. I think this is just as much a motivating factor, if not more, than the reasons stated. Well, correct that, I mentioned Section 8 families, not all DPS refugees.

[bailey]

I must be a cynical person then, because I mentioned that earlier. I think this is just as much a motivating factor, if not more, than the reasons stated. Well, correct that, I mentioned Section 8 families, not all DPS refugees.

Ha.. sorry I missed it. but I just try to not be so cynical...

[Bham1982]

Why would the level of diversity impact the quality of the school?

Academics find strong correlations between income, race, and school performance, indicating that a more economically and/or racially diverse school district may have changes in performance, even if school quality [[funding, teaching, etc.) remains the same.

Now obviously there is debate re. the causation, and to what extent non-school factors have in determining performance, but I don't think it's crazy to say that a suburban school district with more poor kids from Detroit will have more academic challenges.

[BrushStart]

Well, you'd have to be a parent, then. [[Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but congrats if you have one on the way).

Personally, I DO give a crap about the peers of my children and what they do in school. They spend much more time at school around the kids they go to school with than they do with me. I'm guessing that pretty much any parent you ask will say if given the option of having their child go to school with motivated kids who get good grades versus unmotivated kids who get bad grades, they will go with the first option every time. And, generally speaking, good curriculum begats good learners and good grades. There is no magic potion and there are no absolutes...parents play odds and these are the odds.

Fair point. I didn't mean to suggest that the two factors are entirely mutually exclusive, surely there is some overlap. And, it is true that kids are influenced by their peers, both positively and negatively. However, I have some friends who came out of what are considered to complete garbage K-12 schools and turned out fine because they cared about their educations. Unfortunately, putting the names of their alma maters on their resumes probably does them a disservice because of the schools' poor reputations.

Also, I don't have a kid on the way [[that I know of). Had a few scares, though!

[corktownyuppie]

Or maybe they were actually robbed or their car was stolen? You know, these things happen just a bit more in Detroit than in Royal Oak.

My former car was stolen for a joyride from a Wayne State garage. A family member was held up at gunpoint not too far away. These incidents are hardly anecdotal.

Wow. I don't want to sound dismissive when I say this...obviously you've had some very shitty experiences in the city. Might ask if this has happened recently? Years ago?

Out of my 33 years, I've lived 24 of them in the city limits. I went to grade school and then a Catholic high school. I haven't known anyone to get held up at gunpoint...ever. What happened?

[corktownyuppie]

I'm not entirely sure about that. I live downtown now, but if Detroit Public Schools don't improve in the next 8-10 years, GPP could easily be my number 1 choice. GPP may capture a lot of yuppies and DINKS, who currently live in the city core, but will want better schools once they start having kids. GPP has the advantage of being quasi-urban, upscale, and closely tied to the city core. Royal Oak would be a DISTANT 3rd, perhaps even 4th or 5th behind Dearborn or Ferndale.

Agree with this sentiment. As soon as you start adding kids and schools into the picture, all bets are off. I'm just saying that Midtown/Downtown is the only place where there is a real urban experience, trending toward the higher educated and upper income. And that's a good thing...that will propel it toward sustainability.

And even if the schools never come back, by having a sustainable urban yuppified area, you still have a more fiscally healthy city, even if families migrate out as they start having kids....as long as they get replaced by other singles/students/retirees.

[corktownyuppie]

Thank you Cramerro! Maybe the moderators can just delete this one.

Naw...glad they deleted mine. At least with yours, people know what subject matter is before clicking

[Bham1982]

Wow. I don't want to sound dismissive when I say this...obviously you've had some very shitty experiences in the city. Might ask if this has happened recently? Years ago?

To be fair, it could be we've just had bad luck. I'm fine with visiting any part of town.

The stolen car was three years ago [[staffed parking across from Wayne State Law). The gunpoint holdup was sometime in the early 00's. Maybe around 01.

Out of my 33 years, I've lived 24 of them in the city limits. I went to grade school and then a Catholic high school. I haven't known anyone to get held up at gunpoint...ever. What happened?

A DPS teacher in my immediate family was held up at gunpoint while walking from the parking lot to the school door in the winter AM [[still dark out). The assailant couldn't have been older than 16.

Luckily no physical harm, just shaken up and purse stolen. But DPS lost a good young teacher from that incident. And the cops were useless.

[DetroitPole]

This is kind of baffling to me. My only thought, and forgive my cynicism, is that they are trying to fill up the rental units with people who are not low-income Detroiters.

However, I'm not sure who gave them the idea that college students are somebody you necessarily want to live next door to. Not really the best neighbors. Landscaping will often include beer bottles, barf, and used condoms.

I'm not sure who came up with this idea that Royal Oak and Ferndale are somehow the places to be. I guess if you repeat something enough, people start to believe it. Like Obama being Muslim or not American, except perpetuating the myth that Ferndale is somehow cool. I guess maybe compared to Gary, Indiana, or Mogadishu.

Not all people are the same, and there are plenty of reasons besides the blue-haired brigade that the Pointes have remained strong. The housing stock is outstanding and almost all custom built, even the more modest variety. You have the proximity to the lake, it is extremely quiet, and there is very little traffic [[unlike Oakland County), and there are nice commercial districts, which have a hell of a lot more charm than the overbuilt highway that is Woodward Avenue. I don't see how it would appeal to college students so much, but late 20's who want a piece of the finer things in life? Hell yeah. Grosse Pointers spend a lot of their time in Detroit, anyway.

My concern would be, if anything, that it would dilute the neighborhoods of Detroit that are not part of the greater downtown area. That would be the Grandmont Rosedale, University District, the Villages, East English Village type places. You can see why - great housing stock, but shitty city services and creeping blight. You can still live the same distance from downtown in GP and have the same unique houses so it could further drain these neighborhoods. The type of person who wants to live in those stately areas of the city is the type of person who would move to Grosse Pointe, not Ferndale. Detroit has done a good job of ignoring these strong neighborhoods for decades and needs to do something to stabilize them. I've said it before and I'll say it again: Detroit is not just a 5 square mile downtown area.

[mwilbert]

I'm not sure who came up with this idea that Royal Oak and Ferndale are somehow the places to be. I guess if you repeat something enough, people start to believe it. Like Obama being Muslim or not American, except perpetuating the myth that Ferndale is somehow cool. I guess maybe compared to Gary, Indiana, or Mogadishu.

Not sure why you have such a negative reaction to Royal Oak and Ferndale--they are certainly more interesting and convenient to live in than most of greater Detroit. Not sure about 'cool'; that may be in the eye of the beholder.

My concern would be, if anything, that it would dilute the neighborhoods of Detroit that are not part of the greater downtown area. That would be the Grandmont Rosedale, University District, the Villages, East English Village type places.

This is all possible, but I would make two points:

1) these are rental subsidies, and the areas you mention aren't really rental areas.
2) I doubt very many people from Rosedale or University District are going to want to live in GPP--it is ridiculously located for someone oriented to the northwest side. East English Village, more likely.

[royce]

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned this, but $350 is not a great incentive if rent is $600 a month, or $7200 a year. It is only 4.5% of $7200. Waving the security deposit and the first month's rent sounds like a better incentive.

[bartock]

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned this, but $350 is not a great incentive if rent is $600 a month, or $7200 a year. It is only 4.5% of $7200. Waving the security deposit and the first month's rent sounds like a better incentive.

The incentive is up to 50% of rent, or $350. That is monthly.

The foundation put up $250,000 for up to 70 subsidies. That is a bit more than $3,500 per subsidy, so it is half rent for each month.

Wonder how they will go about approving folks for the subsidy...I can foresee several potential problems with the process, as I'm sure more than 70 people will apply. It is a helluva incentive for a college student.

[HistoryNotHisStory]

Never thought I'd see this: Grosse Pointe Park is offering subsidized housing to attract renters, while a Wayne State University student is quoted saying, ""My parents feel it's safer if I live on campus."

http://www.freep.com/article/2011063...xt|FRONTPAGE|p

Depending upon what are of Grosse Pointe is being referred to. Also, Downtown Detroit and WSU Campus is the safest areas of Detroit.