Poletown

**rjk** · May-23-09, 04:03 PM

I've been reading about the GM plant/demolition of the neighborhood and had a few questions that I hope someone can fill me in on.

How did the neighborhood that is now occupied by the GM plant compare to the area directly south of 94 [[Chene) as far as quality of life?

Was there any other areas that GM was looking at to build the plant?
Did the fact that Hamtramck lost Dodge Main factor in as far as replacing some the cities tax base?

Thanks.

**EMG** · May-23-09, 06:37 PM

I was in my late teens and living on the far northeast corner of Detroit in 1980 when Poletown was making headlines about how Big Bad GM was coming in and destroying this neighborhood...but I really had no familiarity with the neighborhood. The following Wikipedia article gives a brief summary of it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poletown

The Detroit News site provides a brief history in pictures here:

http://multimedia.detnews.com/pix/ph...own/index.html

**CornBot** · May-23-09, 07:49 PM

I unfortunately have some familiarity with Poletown. My husband's grandmothers both lost their lifelong homes, one on Edsel Ford East and the other on Kanter. That neighborhood was such a throwback, even in 1980. Old ladies still swept the sidewalks in front of their homes. The corner store sold milk, bread, canned soup, and toilet paper, but no smokes or alcohol. The houses were all occupied reasonably well-cared-for by an ethnically mixed population. Neighbors sat on the porches after supper or strolled the street with their dogs and little kids. It was old-fashioned in the sense that people could walk to church, school, and the market. Grandma never learned to drive; she didn't need to. Even her job at the hospital on the Boulevard was close enough to walk.

It was as if the city had just realized there was a successful community still in existence on the east side, and just could not stand the sight or the concept. So many other areas had already crumbled into abandoned slum/prairie that would have made less invasive, more intelligent locations to build that GM plant on... but no. Eminent domain was invoked to kill one of the last healthy microcosms of what Detroit really was like, and obliterate it as completely as possible. As a cruel little twist of that knife, they tore down Immaculate's on my in-laws' 25th wedding anniversary. So much for renewing their vows in the church where they got married.

If I've managed to get the phone uploaded correctly [[being a newbie lurker type), then below is a picture of DH'S paternal grandma, her daughters, and some of her grandkids, who tried to fight for the home on Kanter grandma had lived in since the 1920s. She was the second-to-last resident to leave, if I remember right.

**56packman** · May-23-09, 09:49 PM

OK, here's the deal: GM saw the writing on the wall for the Clark street plant and the Fleetwood plant, the two facilities that produced Cadillac automobiles as of 1980 and the large rear wheel drive products made in them. They wanted to build a single-floor modern plant to produce the new product and were looking to head south, a loss of over 1,000 jobs to Detroit. Chrysler was closing Dodge main, making a large footprint of land available and the Young administration lobbied GM hard to stay in Detroit and build that plant. The loss of the stable neighborhood is regrettible, but GM could have gone south with the plant, easily, the land under Dodge Main would be who knows what today, If the plant remained it might be another Packard plant situation and the stable neighborhood would be pretty much like the rest of Hamtramck today, which isn't what it once was [[what is today?) but better than many nearby areas.

**kathy2trips** · May-26-09, 12:39 AM

Thank you for those lovely memories. I remember it just as you wrote.

**RickBeall** · May-23-09, 10:16 PM

Hey I live in Hamtrack. We're still kicking. Basically, Detroit treated the Poletown area just like they treated Delray. If Hamtramck were not an entity separate from Detroit, we would be a field like Delray ... and Poletown.

But as 56packman said, there were no absolute good guys or bad guys. Hamtrmack lobbied real hard to have the Poletown plant built on its southern border. It's partically in Hamtramck, and we get a couple million in revenue from it yearly. The Poletown plant also cut of Chene street from the healthier Hamtramck, and that area has steadily declined into almost urban prairie.

It's a tangled story.

**Philbo** · May-23-09, 10:34 PM

One interesting note is that there is still a old cemetery on the grounds of the plant. When I worked security there we would have to admit family visitors especially on Sundays to visit thier loved ones.

**jackie5275** · May-26-09, 08:44 PM

Originally Posted by Philbo

One interesting note is that there is still a old cemetery on the grounds of the plant. When I worked security there we would have to admit family visitors especially on Sundays to visit thier loved ones.

Actually, the cemetery is now gone. I think there were about 2 dz graves in it. All the bodies were reinterred in 2005.

**Detroitej72** · May-26-09, 08:48 PM

Originally Posted by jackie5275

Actually, the cemetery is now gone. I think there were about 2 dz graves in it. All the bodies were reinterred in 2005.

Are you sure about this? I seem to recall it was open last year for viewing by relatives in the fall, I think for Yom Kippur.

**jackie5275** · May-26-09, 09:05 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitej72

Are you sure about this? I seem to recall it was open last year for viewing by relatives in the fall, I think for Yom Kippur.

I'm pretty sure I saw this. I'll double check my source.

I stand corrected. Those bodies are still there.

**pellicule** · May-26-09, 09:09 PM

hello -- the cemetery couldn't be moved according to state law. there are photos on Lowell's Shtetlhood pages on this website and more info here:
http://www.flickr.com/signin/?acf=%2...00046129994%2F

The Beth Olem Cemetery is open to the public 2 Saturdays per year for approximately 2 hours each, in April and September. To confirm the days/times contact the Clover Hill Cemetery in Royal Oak or the Michigan Jewish Historical Society.

**Lombaowski** · May-30-09, 03:41 PM

Originally Posted by Philbo

One interesting note is that there is still a old cemetery on the grounds of the plant. When I worked security there we would have to admit family visitors especially on Sundays to visit thier loved ones.

Wow that is interesting.

MIRepublic · May-24-09, 01:13 AM

Originally Posted by RickBeall

Hey I live in Hamtrack. We're still kicking. Basically, Detroit treated the Poletown area just like they treated Delray. If Hamtramck were not an entity separate from Detroit, we would be a field like Delray ... and Poletown.

Really, could you just come right out and let everyone know what you're insinuating, already?

I lament like any thoughtful person would the hardball the city played with the neighborhood. I lament it anywhere it happens, and it happened [[and happens) all across the country. But, I'm not sure I, at all, agree with the insinuation that still seems to be held to this day, by many, that northern Poletown was specifically targeted for any reason beyound the fact that it was near existing rail, freeway, and industrial infrastructure. There seems to be idea, either through blatant rejection or simply not considering, that the location of the plant didn't make sense. The idea seems to be the result of a complete denial that the Milwaukee Junction was/is literally next door to the site.

**sumas** · May-24-09, 07:40 AM

I lived in that community as a student at Wayne State. It was charming and surprisingly crime free. I remember a strong battle being waged to save a church and its members lost that too.

**kraig** · May-24-09, 09:50 AM

Originally Posted by RickBeall

Hey I live in Hamtrack. We're still kicking. Basically, Detroit treated the Poletown area just like they treated Delray. If Hamtramck were not an entity separate from Detroit, we would be a field like Delray ... and Poletown.

But as 56packman said, there were no absolute good guys or bad guys. Hamtrmack lobbied real hard to have the Poletown plant built on its southern border. It's partically in Hamtramck, and we get a couple million in revenue from it yearly. The Poletown plant also cut of Chene street from the healthier Hamtramck, and that area has steadily declined into almost urban prairie.

It's a tangled story.

I'm glad you mentioned Delray, because, something extremely similar is taking place right now called the DRIC. People need to realize that Eminent Domain in the City of Detroit has always left a lot of good people screwed over.

**CornBot** · May-24-09, 11:53 AM

My DH was just my boyfriend back during the Poletown to-do, so I was not really involved other than hearing DH's family talk about what they were doing to save their home and then helping them move away to the 'burbs. As time went on, the event became retrospectively more important to me personally [[now married to him for 28+ yrs).

I remember a question at the time, which I don't know if it was rhetorical or not, about why GM didn't just use the Packard plant/land. It was already long abandoned then and I don't remember now if there was a good reason to demolish a neighborhood rather than an old factory complex. Does anyone have a clue why?

Not that it matters so much, 3 decades later... except that perhaps those who can remember the history might not be doomed to repeating it.

**Mikeg** · May-24-09, 12:38 PM

....why GM didn't just use the Packard plant/land. It was already long abandoned then and I don't remember now if there was a good reason to demolish a neighborhood rather than an old factory complex. Does anyone have a clue why?

Take a look at this map I made which provides a visual indication of the size and shape of the old Packard property [[outlined in red, labeled "A" on right) and compare it to the GM Detroit-Hamtramck Assembly Plant [[outlined in red on left). Modern and efficient assembly of "body frame integral" vehicles requires single story plants and considerably more body shop area to build the underbody than the old "body on frame" vehicles that were assembled in the Packard and GM Cadillac Clark St. Plants.

Therefore, the answer to your question is that to have located the new GM plant on the old Packard site, the City of Detroit would have had to acquire and demolish the existing Packard complex of buildings at great cost. Also, a different existing neighborhood would have to have been acquired through eminent domain and then demolished in order to offer GM the size and shape of land they would need for a modern assembly plant.

**Lferg** · May-24-09, 01:30 PM

Cornbot, I knew I had seen that picture before

http://apps.detnews.com/apps/history/index.php?id=18

**CornBot** · May-24-09, 03:39 PM

Originally Posted by Lferg

Cornbot, I knew I had seen that picture before

http://apps.detnews.com/apps/history/index.php?id=18

Yep, that's exactly where I lifted it from; asked my MIL if she still had the newpaper articles & she sent me that link. So, forefront L to R are cousin Nick; aunts Connie, Gertie, and Dolly; with Pepper the dog is leading the parade.

MIL also has all the news articles laminated and saved in an album. There are a bunch of "family photos" in the Poletown book, so of course she has that too. Interesting that DH photographed Immaculate Conception's interior before it was torn down, thinking his mom wold want the pictures, but she still doesn't want to see them.

**56packman** · May-24-09, 10:12 PM

Dammit, here we go again. THe Packard plant was never "abandoned" until the city of Detroit, from the mayor's office began efforts to sieze the complex from its owners for back taxes without due process, in 1999. Packard Motor Car Company discontinued production at the plant in September of 1954, moving to a briggs plant on Conner and east Warren. They continued to use the office on EGB until the fall of 1956, when the new owners of Studebaker-Packard, Curtis-Wright closed all Detroit operations. Since that time the facility had been a business center much like the Russell Industrial Center or the [[former) Ford model T plant in Highland Park, divided into smaller sections for tennants.
I was one of several people who had space in the Packard plant, it was an excellent place for storage or light business needs and had several large tennants, Essex Wire being one.
So DY members, please stop saying "the Packard plant has been abandoned since Packard went out of business", it is not true.

well, just call me "broken record"

Originally Posted by CornBot

My DH was just my boyfriend back during the Poletown to-do, so I was not really involved other than hearing DH's family talk about what they were doing to save their home and then helping them move away to the 'burbs. As time went on, the event became retrospectively more important to me personally [[now married to him for 28+ yrs).

I remember a question at the time, which I don't know if it was rhetorical or not, about why GM didn't just use the Packard plant/land. It was already long abandoned then and I don't remember now if there was a good reason to demolish a neighborhood rather than an old factory complex. Does anyone have a clue why?

Not that it matters so much, 3 decades later... except that perhaps those who can remember the history might not be doomed to repeating it.

**Mikeg** · May-24-09, 11:05 PM

In reference to the 4th photo in the above link [[Dodge Main, 1980) can anyone recognize the main roads and from which direction the photo was taken? I'm having a hard time figuring out exactly where DM was loacted.

The photo was taken looking roughly northward from a position that would be above today's GM Detroit-Hamtramck assembly plant. Joseph Campau is the street paralleling the left edge of the photo. Conant is the other main road paralleling it that runs just to the right of the power plant with the four smoke stacks. The railroad tracks runs at a slight angle from right to left and Keyworth Stadium can be seen in the middle of the photo [[just above the railroad tracks).

**jackie5275** · May-26-09, 09:02 PM

Originally Posted by Mikeg

The photo was taken looking roughly northward from a position that would be above today's GM Detroit-Hamtramck assembly plant. Joseph Campau is the street paralleling the left edge of the photo. Conant is the other main road paralleling it that runs just to the right of the power plant with the four smoke stacks. The railroad tracks runs at a slight angle from right to left and Keyworth Stadium can be seen in the middle of the photo [[just above the railroad tracks).

So Dodge Main was kind of where the Hamtramck Jail now sits? This makes sense because on the east side of Conant btwn Mt. Elliott & Holbrook you can see old employee parking lots that have the old Chrysler signs around them that indicate hourly & salary parking. Granted at this time of year they're hard to see due to the vegetation, but they're easier to see in the winter.

**kraig** · May-25-09, 09:05 AM

Originally Posted by 56packman

Dammit, here we go again. THe Packard plant was never "abandoned" until the city of Detroit, from the mayor's office began efforts to sieze the complex from its owners for back taxes without due process, in 1999. Packard Motor Car Company discontinued production at the plant in September of 1954, moving to a briggs plant on Conner and east Warren. They continued to use the office on EGB until the fall of 1956, when the new owners of Studebaker-Packard, Curtis-Wright closed all Detroit operations. Since that time the facility had been a business center much like the Russell Industrial Center or the [[former) Ford model T plant in Highland Park, divided into smaller sections for tennants.
I was one of several people who had space in the Packard plant, it was an excellent place for storage or light business needs and had several large tennants, Essex Wire being one.
So DY members, please stop saying "the Packard plant has been abandoned since Packard went out of business", it is not true.

well, just call me "broken record"

It depends on someone's definition of abandoned. When about 95- 99% of a 3.5 million square foot facility is vacant, not being cared for, and falling apart, it may be a fair estimation to say that the facility has been abandoned.

**EastsideAl** · May-25-09, 09:54 PM

Thank you 56 packman for clearing up what seems to be a consistently held misconception around here. My great uncle ran a business out of the Packard complex during the '60s and '70s, I had another uncle who worked for Essex Wire, and I had family who lived in the area and shopped at the Arlan's discount store, which was also in a part of the old plant. The place was nowhere near 95% empty in those days. In fact, the Packard complex was quite a busy area.

**kraig** · May-26-09, 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by EastsideAl

Thank you 56 packman for clearing up what seems to be a consistently held misconception around here. My great uncle ran a business out of the Packard complex during the '60s and '70s, I had another uncle who worked for Essex Wire, and I had family who lived in the area and shopped at the Arlan's discount store, which was also in a part of the old plant. The place was nowhere near 95% empty in those days. In fact, the Packard complex was quite a busy area.

When the City tried to foreclose on taxes in 1997, the place was 95-99% empty. Are you saying that at that time Essex Wire was still there?