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  1. #26

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    June 10. 2011 8:12AM Sections of Detroit remain without power

    Santiago Esparza/ By Santiago Esparza The Detroit News

    Detroit— Numerous municipal buildings throughout the city's downtown area remained without power this morning after the city's antiquated public power system failed because of high demand for air-conditioning following a stretch of 90-degree weather earlier this week.

    One of the city's five power lines at the Misterky Power Plant failed Wednesday and two others went down on Thursday, leaving the Coleman A. Young Municipal Building, the Detroit Public Library, Wayne State University, the Detroit Institute of Arts, several federal buildings and Detroit Public Schools without electrical service, officials said.

    The city hoped to have the problem fixed this afternoon.

    Chris Brown, the city's chief operating officer, said one line leading to the city's Mistersky Power Plant went out Wednesday night, while a second went out about 1:40 p.m. Thursday. The third failed about 1:55 p.m. and prompted the evacuation. City officials had been warned about the possibility of a brownout.

    In the meantime, WSU canceled classes and DPS shuttered classes today at Bunche, Crockett CTC, Chrysler, Cass, Detroit International Academy, Detroit School of Arts, Douglass, King, Northwestern and Spain schools, officials said.

    The library's Main Branch and Skillman Branch downtown remain closed today. The Detroit Historical Museum also was closed due to the power outage.

    There were scattered reports of traffic signals not working throughout the downtown area.

    On Tuesday and Wednesday, temperatures and humidity combined to make it feel like nearly 100 degrees outside, according to the National Weather Service reporting station in White Lake Township.

    Today's forecast calls for temperatures in the low 70s with rain showers and possibly thunderstorms, according to the weather service.

    Detroit's public power system doesn't provide electricity for residential customers.
    sesparza@detnews.com

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    Only in Detroit - On the second day of the outage of seven sets of traffic lights from midtown to downtown not only are there no police directing traffic [[or even sandbagged temporary stop signs), but about 10% of the people aren't even slowing down for the darkened lights. It becomes a four-way stop you nutball drivers! A bunch of cars were stopped at Woodward and Mack this morning, waiting and taking turns [[not perfect but hey, pretty safe) and here comes some damn fool cruising east at full speed, right through the light that probably 8 or 9 cars were taking turns going through. Not a cop in sight.

  3. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by kraig View Post
    Of course it's okay to come down hard on PLD or any other entity that's not doing its job correctly. I'm just keeping it in perspective that PLD is not the only entity that's having trouble. Every time this happens the call for privatization goes out and no one considers that DTE has problems of its own. But, no one is calling for them to get out of the business.....
    Check your perspective. DTE's problems w/ outages are almost nearly always in the 'burbs, with overhead lines.

    Have worked downtown for the last 20 years, and there were NO outages caused by weather. Three outages total. Big one in 2003, a new power line for Comerica took down a substation, backhoe cut a line.

    Have also worked with DPL. They are grossly incompetent. And it only takes a quick look at the streetlights to see it.

  4. #29

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    Detroit - Third World City -- again!!

  5. #30

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    Nice sign.

    I can understand the importance of running somewhere with power to print it out.

    But laminating it? So what, it can be preserved for the next time? So that over time, with all the use it will get, it will hold true?

    Would it be a stretch to say the city government is "in the dark?"

  6. #31

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    following a stretch of 90-degree weather earlier this week.
    Two days is not a stretch. Two days is a normal [[or maybe below normal) summer in Detroit.

  7. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch View Post
    Check your perspective. DTE's problems w/ outages are almost nearly always in the 'burbs, with overhead lines.

    Have worked downtown for the last 20 years, and there were NO outages caused by weather. Three outages total. Big one in 2003, a new power line for Comerica took down a substation, backhoe cut a line.

    Have also worked with DPL. They are grossly incompetent. And it only takes a quick look at the streetlights to see it.
    My apologies, I was unaware that having the same problems over and over again in the suburbs doesn't count. And it's highly doubtful that you've worked with the City of Detroit's system. Because if you had, you would know the name of it is PLD.

  8. #33

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    I am back east in NYC visiting friends as I read this about the major electrical outages. Why don't we quit fooling ourselves about the 'revitalizing' and 'rebirth' of Detroit. If you can't provide basic infrastructure needs like water and electricity in a consistent and reliable manner, then you cannot expect businesses to relocate and open in the city. Remember the old line, last one out of Detroit, please turn the lights out, well now they don't even have to do that anymore...

  9. #34

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    Okay, I hear you. That's fair.
    What's your analysis of how fires destroyed about 80 homes?

  10. #35

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    I work downtown. Our building has DTE service. Our power has gone out once every year for the last two years. I agree, DTE is far from perfect, and whatever the problems with PLD, people react disproportionately when PLD has a fuzzout, but I believe you can have a situations where DTE left its lines in such disrepair that they burned down a neighborhood and it would be called an Act of God.
    Last edited by Detroitnerd; June-10-11 at 11:01 AM.

  11. #36
    DetroitPole Guest

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    Quick refresher course here:
    DPL - Detroit Public Library
    PLD - Public Lighting Department

    How anyone is defending PLD is beyond me, unless they work for them, or don't really have any experience with them.

  12. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carey View Post
    Okay, I hear you. That's fair.
    What's your analysis of how fires destroyed about 80 homes?
    DTE services two million people spread out over 7,000 square miles. Crap's gonna happen.

    When I worked at WSU we'd loose power *every summer* when it rained a lot. Same problem with the same transformers. DPL would patch them up, and they'd fail again, sometimes within weeks.

  13. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by DetroitPole View Post
    Quick refresher course here:
    DPL - Detroit Public Library
    PLD - Public Lighting Department

    How anyone is defending PLD is beyond me, unless they work for them, or don't really have any experience with them.
    PLD is the product of an age when business owned almost everything, and government contracted out almost everything to private companies. We all know what happened with laissez faire capitalism, and things like the DSR and PLD were created to compete with private business and take away private companies' monopolies. That is valuable, even as our businesspeople [[surprise, surprise) urge us to back up into the 19th century again...

  14. #39

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    I'd be willing to be these repairs to the tie-lines at Mistersky are not new equipment, but are simply patches to get the system back and running....and the next time in hits 90 again for a few days, the same damn thing will happen. I'm sure the stuff ain't cheap but you have to start somewhere.

  15. #40

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    Same thing happened [[for the same reason: tie lines) in the late 90s for several days, and then happened again a couple of weeks later. As I recall, it was more widespread then, with police and fire stations also affected. Archer just kicked the can down the road...

  16. #41

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    The cause of the power outage is people using their AC's units all day and night. This cause a blow out of the main transformers somewhat at the Downtown Substation.

  17. #42

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    We have some winning quotes in this article, too. I've put them in italics for fun.

    From The Detroit News, "the Home Newspaper":

    June 10. 2011 2:42PM
    Detroit slowly returning power; expects all service to be back today


    Santiago Esparza and Darren A. Nichols/ The Detroit News

    Detroit —The city is incrementally restoring power to buildings, traffic signals and other sites that lost power Thursday when its antiquated system failed.

    The Coleman A. Young Municipal Building, Cobo Convention Center, Wayne State University, Detroit Fire Department headquarters and the Detroit People Mover were open and running by 1:45 p.m., mayoral spokeswoman Karen Dumas said.

    "We are doing this slowly," Dumas said.

    Dumas said she hopes all service would be restored by the end of today.

    The outage to public buildings in Midtown and downtown served by the Detroit Public Lighting system began when three transmission lines failed. One of those lines is up and running; two others are being worked on. The city's chief operating officer, Chris Brown, said the city cut off power to public buildings after two lines failed Thursday. One line to the city's aging Mistersky Power Plant already went out Wednesday and city officials needed to shed load to avert a complete shutdown of the city grid that could have knocked out power citywide.

    "When that happens, you have to basically take those buildings off line," Brown said. "It's the best you can do. You're in an emergency situation. We did the best we could do. The system is an older system. People need to shed load and we have to take even more precautions and give earlier warnings."

    City officials blame the failure on high use of air conditioners during two days early this week when temperatures topped 90 degrees.

    It wasn't immediately clear Friday afternoon where power had been restored.

    But the outage's impact Thursday was wide — Coleman A. Young Municipal Center is shut today and Wayne State canceled classes. Also closed: the Detroit Public Library's Main Branch and Skillman Branch, Wayne County Community College's downtown campus, the Frank Murphy Hall of Justice and Detroit Historical Museum.

    The Detroit Institute of Arts had hoped to open at 5 p.m. today, but plans to remain closed until Saturday, said spokeswoman Pam Marcil. The museum typically attracts about 2,000 people on Friday nights for live music and Detroit Film Theatre programs, but those events are canceled.

    The museum still urges residents to check its website, www.dia.org, for updates.
    And the American Catholic Council's national convention went off as planned today at Cobo.

    Some traffic signals are out in downtown and Midtown. Many municipal telephone lines and websites are down, but police and fire operations were continuing, city officials said. Calls for help are being handled and Detroit police and firefighters said they could always get hold of each other via cell phones, if necessary.

    Detroit Public Schools canceled classes at Bunche, Crockett CTC, Chrysler, Cass, Detroit International Academy, Detroit School of Arts, Douglass, King, Northwestern and Spain schools, officials said.

    Cass Technical High School's prom scheduled to be held tonight at the Detroit Yacht Club has been moved to the Detroit Marriott Hotel in the Renaissance Center, DPS officials said.

    Parent Tammy Turvill said she's upset that district officials didn't give her a heads-up. She spent Friday morning running around getting flowers and other last minute items for her son James' big evening.

    "It is stressful enough, and now we are going to have to go to another building," Turvill, 40 and of southwest Detroit said. "No one called me. I have been trying to call the school all day."

    At Wayne State University, 29-year-old grad student Tim Wang was trying to get details about the outage at lunchtime. Power went out in his nearby apartment from 5 to 9 p.m. Thursday.

    "I sent my computer to get repaired so I can't get any information," Wang said.
    Kipp Cycholl, a Wayne State University construction manager, said the half of the campus on the Detroit Public Lighting system is the one that failed. The section of campus served by DTE is up.

    A variety of buildings are affected, including dorms, classrooms, the undergraduate library and the Barnes and Noble bookstore.

    The outage highlights ongoing issues with the city's Public Lighting Department. The system supplies power to public institutions in about 890 buildings and about 35,000 of the city's 88,000 street lights.

    But it's plagued by complaints about outages and costs. The city spends about $10 million on the system, but a December audit found it needs at least $300 million in updates.

    Several mayors have called on privatizing or mothballing the system, including Mayor Dave Bing.

    City Council President Pro Tem Gary Brown said Detroit can't afford upgrades.
    "It's an antiquated system," Brown said. "I think DTE has a responsibility to take over the system. They might not want to but they should have to."

    "It will take a huge capital investment. That's not a core service the city of Detroit should be delivering."


    On Tuesday and Wednesday, temperatures and humidity combined to make it feel like nearly 100 degrees outside, according to the National Weather Service reporting station in White Lake Township.

    Today's forecast calls for temperatures in the low 70s with rain showers and possibly thunderstorms, according to the weather service.

    Detroit's public power system doesn't provide electricity for residential customers.

    News Staff Writers Christine MacDonald and Josh Katzenstein contributed
    sesparza@detnews.com

  18. #43

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    I've worked with PLD numerous times in the past and currently work with them on several projects. While things at PLD aren't perfect and some staff can be difficult at times to work with, I will say in defense of the employees they have nothing to work with. They're grossly under staffed and under budgeted. They only have around 100 employees for the entire department. These 100 employees run an entire power plant, maintain an large power grid, provide electrical engineering, purchase new materials, maintain records, etc. That's an impossible job for 100 people. There are only 4 crews of two people each that do maintenance work for the entire city, this includes traffic lights, light poles, etc. PLD only has 1 field engineer to provide on-site technical assistance and oversight.

    The staff that are left are incredibly technically skilled folks. They perform work on a daily basis that only a very small hand full of employees at a very small hand full of private companies are able to do. I'd say that a fraction of 1% of the electrical engineers or line workers in SE Michigan have the skills that PLD workers do. In fact many of the private companies out there that you have seen more of lately working on PLD facilities are former PLD employees because they're the only ones who know how to do the highly technical work.

    Another thing going against PLD is that their electric system is incredibly old. They use a system that virtually no one else in the country uses any more requiring custom order transformers, cable, and other materials. The reason they still use these older systems is because there is no money to change the system over to a modern system. They would have to replace the entire system from transmission lines, to distribution lines, to transformers, to cables. Just imagine the millions/billions that would cost to do. So in the mean time the PLD staff are forced to patch the system together because that's all their budget allows them to do. There have been no major upgrades to the PLD system in decades.

    The above is just the staffing and electric grid challenges PLD faces. You all know the state of the street lights: poles with a life span of 30 years that have been in place for 60 or more years.

    So if you're going to take out your frustrations with PLD on someone, don't take it out on the PLD workers. They're doing an incredible job with what they have to work with. Take it out on the elected officials who have appointed incompetent dept. heads, budgets that don't allow for the most basic maintenance, etc.

  19. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by DetroitPole View Post
    Seriously. Two days over 90 in Detroit and we get this? I mean, what are the chances it would be over 90 to days in a row in the summer in Detroit? So, so pitifully janky.
    Indeed. Extra points for use of the word janky!

    Quote Originally Posted by jtf1972 View Post


    Nice sign.

    I can understand the importance of running somewhere with power to print it out.

    But laminating it? So what, it can be preserved for the next time? So that over time, with all the use it will get, it will hold true?

    Would it be a stretch to say the city government is "in the dark?"
    What do you think this is, failblog?

    Quote Originally Posted by fzappa2000 View Post
    I am back east in NYC visiting friends as I read this about the major electrical outages. Why don't we quit fooling ourselves about the 'revitalizing' and 'rebirth' of Detroit. If you can't provide basic infrastructure needs like water and electricity in a consistent and reliable manner, then you cannot expect businesses to relocate and open in the city. Remember the old line, last one out of Detroit, please turn the lights out, well now they don't even have to do that anymore...
    Well done!

    [sarcasm]Notwithstanding your clever allusion to that well-worn line about the demise of Detroit, the real killer is the personal income tax.[/sarcasm]

    There. It was bound to happen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocko View Post
    "We are doing this slowly," Dumas said.
    I laughed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocko View Post
    Detroit police and firefighters said they could always get hold of each other via cell phones, if necessary.
    I shuddered.

  20. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by fzappa2000 View Post
    I am back east in NYC visiting friends as I read this about the major electrical outages. Why don't we quit fooling ourselves about the 'revitalizing' and 'rebirth' of Detroit. If you can't provide basic infrastructure needs like water and electricity in a consistent and reliable manner, then you cannot expect businesses to relocate and open in the city. Remember the old line, last one out of Detroit, please turn the lights out, well now they don't even have to do that anymore...
    These power outages only affect certain government systems that rely on power from the antiquated public power system. The DTE power system that supplies electricity to private businesses and residential customers in Detroit is very reliable, especially in the city center. I have lived in downtown Detroit for 14 years, and the only time I have ever lost power was during the blackout of 2003. I have friends in Lafayette Park who have never lost power in over 20 years, except for the 2003 blackout.

  21. #46

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    In fact many of the private companies out there that you have seen more of lately working on PLD facilities are former PLD employees because they're the only ones who know how to do the highly technical work.
    Correction, they're the only ones who would dare touch the kludged up mess. They went off to private companies to get paid a decent wage to handle the risk.

    PLD is one of the first departments that should be eliminated and transferred over to DTE or a contractor. Why have them double what DTE and Bell are doing? PLD is a throwback to the dark ages of the city. They used to handle all of the alarm systems for the FD including the citywide telephone system. I'm not really sure why, but they did. I guess at one time it was more cost efficient and possibly more secure to have in-house techs.

    All of that internal Gamewell fire alarm [[street corner fire boxes) system is gone, replaced by radios and computers. I don't know about the private phone system, it may be gone now too.

    I just don't see a need for PLD anymore.

  22. #47

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    The problem with an outside company coming in to take over the PLD is that then THEY would have to either tear out all that antiquated shit that comprises the system and spend the millions to upgrade it with probably not much ROI or they would have to work with the mess that is already there and then take the blame when they have the same outages that are currently happening. Who wants to do that?
    Quote Originally Posted by Meddle View Post
    Correction, they're the only ones who would dare touch the kludged up mess. They went off to private companies to get paid a decent wage to handle the risk.

    PLD is one of the first departments that should be eliminated and transferred over to DTE or a contractor. Why have them double what DTE and Bell are doing? PLD is a throwback to the dark ages of the city. They used to handle all of the alarm systems for the FD including the citywide telephone system. I'm not really sure why, but they did. I guess at one time it was more cost efficient and possibly more secure to have in-house techs.

    All of that internal Gamewell fire alarm [[street corner fire boxes) system is gone, replaced by radios and computers. I don't know about the private phone system, it may be gone now too.

    I just don't see a need for PLD anymore.

  23. #48

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    Jun 10, 6:34 PM EDT
    The Detroit News

    Power failures reveal aging Detroit infrastructure

    By COREY WILLIAMS
    Associated Press

    DETROIT [[AP) -- Aging power transmission lines that failed under the stress of high demand left a handful of Detroit's public buildings blacked out for more than a day, and provided a stark reminder of the rapidly deteriorating infrastructure in a city struggling to provide basic services.

    Even patchwork repairs to power grids, water pipes and crumbling streets are proving too costly for cash-strapped cities like Detroit, which faces a $155 million budget deficit amid steady revenue losses.

    To make matters worse, Detroit is believed to be one of only a few large U.S. cities that owns and operates a power system that provides electricity to customers. Detroit buys energy wholesale to supply city-owned buildings and entities like Wayne State University and the Detroit Medical Centers.

    It's something Mayor Dave Bing would rather see done by a private company.
    "It's an antiquated system and we don't have the money to maintain it or make upgrades, especially if another provider ... can do it better," mayoral spokeswoman Karen Dumas said. "We can invest that money into something like parks or recreation."

    Temperatures in Detroit topped 90 degrees earlier this week, peaking at 95 on Tuesday and easily topping the upper 70s average high for this time of year, according to Dave Kook, a National Weather Service meteorologist in Oakland County's White Lake Township.

    Thursday's outages began when three transmission lines at the more than 60-year-old Mistersky power station overloaded with increased demand, primarily from air conditioner usage, officials said. Officials were forced to shut down power to additional buildings, including city hall and a downtown convention center, to prevent the entire system from crashing.

    The outage wasn't a first for Detroit, where downtown city buildings and a medical center also lost power for two days last July due to an equipment failure. And some city and county offices also closed for a day in April 2009 due to a partial power failure at the municipal center.

    "It continually focuses people's minds on what we do well and what we don't do well," said city Chief Operating Officer Chris Brown.

    All traffic signals were working again and power was restored to public buildings and Wayne State's campus by Friday afternoon, but officials could not immediately estimate the cost of necessary repairs and or the financial toll of the outage.

    "The blackouts in Detroit don't just make it inconvenient or hotter for people, but are shutting down the city's economy," said Robert Puentes, a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution Metropolitan Policy Program. "As those things start to become more prevalent, it's forcing a new conversation about the role of infrastructure in economic health."

    DTE Energy Co., which sells the wholesale energy to the city, said in a Friday statement that it was in the early stages of assessing Detroit's public power system, at the city's request.

    Like Detroit, Cleveland still provides electricity to city buildings, some residents, and commercial and industrial customers, said Shelley Shockley, marketing manager for the not-for-profit Cleveland Public Power.

    Cleveland buys power off-market, but operates its own infrastructure and power lines and operating charges are passed on to customers pay for repairs and upgrades, Shockley said.

    Fixes to Detroit's system come from the city's general fund.
    Former Philadelphia Mayor Donna Cooper said the problem for many cities is that they have been funding capital costs on a pay-as-you-go basis as opposed to financing over years.

    "How much are the transformer lines going to cost? That's purely a capital cost," said Cooper, now a senior fellow at the Center for American Progress, a liberal Washington think tank. "A lot of cities no longer own energy service. That's not unusual at all and probably a good deal for cities to get out of it."

    Outside of selling bonds and adding more long-term debt to the city, Detroit's mayor will be hard-pressed to pay for upgrading or totally revamping the city's electrical system. Bing also is dealing with crumbling city streets, scores of broken or malfunctioning fire hydrants and other ills while trying to cut $200 million from next year's budget.

    He's also trying to provide police, fire and other services for 700,000 people in a city designed for more than a 1.5 million residents.

    Robin Boyle, a professor in Wayne State University's Center for Urban Planning, said Bing must first demonstrate how city lighting services can be re-engineered to more efficiently serve a much smaller population.

    Then "he needs to go outside the city and find resources," Boyle said. "Rattle his can in Washington and with the state. It's not going to come from residents."

  24. #49

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    Good points. Also like patient on drastic life-support could the barely functioning lungs of this antiquated system ever be fully 'shut down' for the full installation of/ on-ramping to the new system? It would seem to me that there would have to be scheduled power-downs [[with all the problems and unforeseen issues) to fully switch over to a new system. I'd like to hear what engineers and techs have to say about this.......?
    Quote Originally Posted by jcole View Post
    The problem with an outside company coming in to take over the PLD is that then THEY would have to either tear out all that antiquated shit that comprises the system and spend the millions to upgrade it with probably not much ROI or they would have to work with the mess that is already there and then take the blame when they have the same outages that are currently happening. Who wants to do that?
    Last edited by Zacha341; June-11-11 at 08:46 AM.

  25. #50

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    I ran across this article posted last year about the charter commission 'handing over' of the DPL to DTE:

    http://voiceofdetroit.net/?p=503

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