Stimulus Funding for Illuminating Detroit's Landmarks

[MIRepublic]

The idea of the outside lighting is good, just not the use of stimulus money for it.

This is really what it came down to, to me, and I said as much. It's a noble goal, but if anyone wants it they should be lobbying downtown business owners or the Downtown Partnership to chip in to this. The stimulus pot is entirely the wrong pot to try to pull this from for this. Let's be clear, someone like Hines has more than enough money to put towards lighting the top of Comerica Tower, for instance. It's something more than appropriate that efforts be put towards bringing major downtown property to help with the beautification of their own properties. Advocating using public stimulus money to light private property is either irresponsible or short-sighted, neither of which are good things to be accused of.

[gravitymachine]

All I hear is whining from people who are so damn practical, and look what the city looks like using your metric.

yes, damn us all to hell for thinking gimmicks won't save us.

the city has a $300 million dollar budget deficit, fix that and we can talk about some lights.

[Bearinabox]

I'm seeing a recurring pattern on here:

1. OP posts idea.

2. People critique idea.

3. OP has a meltdown because the people who critiqued the idea were too closed-minded and backward to recognize the brilliance of the idea. OP then attributes all Detroit's problems to said closed-minded and backward attitude, condescendingly implying that if only "you Detroiters" [[for some reason, the people who start these threads always seem to live out of state) were willing to listen to him/her, all the city's problems would be solved.

4. Reasonable and intelligent people everywhere [[who previously may or may not have been receptive to the idea) conclude, on the basis of this meltdown, that the OP is an incorrigible, self-obsessed blowhard who has nothing but contempt for the city and its residents, and who thinks that the reason our streetlights don't work is that nobody ever thought to "call city hall." Whether this conclusion is correct is immaterial.

5. The idea is never discussed again. Its merits, whatever they may be, are rendered irrelevant.

[Blarf]

Waste of money. There are more important things the "stimulus money" can be used for.

[detmich]

Well, I'm going to apologize for starting this thread.

This thread wasn't suppose to be about the dull and earnest day-to-day operations of the city, go to another thread for that, there's plenty of them.

If New York took this same attitude, then I guess revamping Central Park, restoring city monuments, paying for public art installations are all wastes of time, based on what I'm hearing here.

And New York has a collapsing infrastucture, exploding manhole covers, sewers collapsing, problems with trash pick up, the subway is filthy and unsafe. I guess everything else, including expousing new ideas, should grind to a halt in New York until these things get fixed.

And in a city with 11 million people, in a far smaller area than Detroit, New York's problems are only magnified, so Detroit has no excuses.

So I withdrawl my premise, and wish you the best of luck, and I promise to not start another thread.

You do not even have your facts straight.

1) Central Park "revamping" is paid for by the Central Park Conservancy. A privately funded organization. If you want to offer a concrete Detroit solution, one might be to start a Belle Isle Conservancy. That would be too practical I suppose.

2) The Subway is not filthy, and is actually quite safe.Exploding manhole covers? No trash pickup? What decade are you living in? You're about 20 years out of date.

3) There are 8.5 million people in NY city. New York has 304 square miles, Detroit 143 Square miles. Get the facts straight before you start squandering money on lighting buildings.

[Gistok]

Lorax, I like your idea, but think that it would best be handled by building owners, or TIFA financing [[DDA?).

The Penobscot Building is a pleasure to behold at night. The Comerica Tower would also be awesome if it were lit up at night [[unfortunately deep pocketed Gerald Hines Associates lost the building to foreclosure about 2 years ago).

There are a lot of other towers that would really look nice at night.

And geeze, there sure are a lot of whiny dream crushers on the forum as of late...

Don't let that stop you Lorax [[or others) from posting new ideas in these tough times...

Well gotta go... the DYES picnic is now....

[detmich]

Lorax, I like your idea, but think that it would best be handled by building owners, or TIFA financing [[DDA?).

The Penobscot Building is a pleasure to behold at night. The Comerica Tower would also be awesome if it were lit up at night [[unfortunately deep pocketed Gerald Hines Associates lost the building to foreclosure about 2 years ago).

There are a lot of other towers that would really look nice at night.

And geeze, there sure are a lot of whiny dream crushers on the forum as of late...

Don't let that stop you Lorax [[or others) from posting new ideas in these tough times...

Well gotta go... the DYES picnic is now....

Perhaps we could sell old concert tickets on ebay to finance it?

[ndavies]

Why are you advocating more wasting of energy? More coal burned? More greenhouse gases expelled? Why do you want to further contribute to light polution?

[wolverine]

While I disagree with using stimulus money, I still think illuminating downtown would be a benefit.

NDavies, lighting systems do exist that don't use power from the grid, and LED's don't contribute to light pollution. So the environmental issues are off the table if done correctly. Actually as the city of Ann Arbor reported after swapping all their lights for LED, they "make the sky darker," and the updated system costs $100,000/year less than traditional lighting.

It's a shame this topic wasn't structured differently. Downtown landmark lighting is for interested private parties, not public officials and tax money. Additionally, people's perceptions are bogged with dated exterior lighting systems that aren't even marketed anymore.

[gravitymachine]

Perhaps we could sell old concert tickets on ebay to finance it?

or legos perhaps

[EMG]

Illumination sounds like a good idea to me - as long as they fund it with back taxes recovered from Ms. $68 Watson.

[Stosh]

Lorax, I like your idea, but think that it would best be handled by building owners, or TIFA financing [[DDA?).

If you do it at all, it would have to be owner financed. It's absolutely irresponsible to fund this venture with public funds.

The Penobscot Building is a pleasure to behold at night. The Comerica Tower would also be awesome if it were lit up at night [[unfortunately deep pocketed Gerald Hines Associates lost the building to foreclosure about 2 years ago).
There are a lot of other towers that would really look nice at night.

It's very nice at night, I'll admit. While you are looking up at all the impressive lighted buildings, try and consider the lot of Detroiters that are struggling to keep their lights on on their home streets, not to consider their homes themselves. And if Gerald Hines [[of the deep pockets) lost his building to foreclosure, consider the lot of the majority of the buildings downtown. Who's paying their bills? We've just scratched the surface of the commercial real estate fallout, I think.

And we're mot even counting the lovely casino's lighting schemes in the overall lighting scenario. Motor City alone will make you blind.

And geeze, there sure are a lot of whiny dream crushers on the forum as of late...

Whiny dream crushers? I prefer the term realists. And quite frankly, it's becoming increasingly difficult reading this board with all the douchbaggery going on. Even if it IS a good idea, perhaps down the road somewhere, it's not going to happen using stimulus money, or city funds, or state money.

New ideas that are capable of being accomplished are great. New ideas that have an unfunded mandate aren't. There's a lot of deferred dreaming going on right now, and not just in the downtown area. The old saying goes, "If wishes were horses, beggars would ride".

I'd prefer that someone would come up with ideas that can be done that will actually help. I wish that I had some ideas that can be done realistically that would help, I really do. If this was 2001, I'd bet that the lighting idea would have been hailed as a triumph, and well on it's way to being done. But this is 2009, State is awash in red ink, Detroit is 300+ million in the hole. Let's hope that the grown ups can figure this out...

[Retroit]

If anyone would like to see a list of stimulus funding projects submitted by their city:

http://www.stimuluswatch.org/project/by_state

Perhaps it should be called the Concrete and Asphalt Stimulus Package. I didn't realize that the downturn in the economy was caused by lack of roads.

[EMG]

Well now that explains it! As soon as they fix the roads, people will be so anxious to get out and start driving on them again, they'll head right over to one of the few dealers still in business and be willing to pay top dollar for a new Obamamobile! See, it's all clear now....

[Locke09]

Actually, when you want to stimulate the economy, provide jobs [[however temporary) and take care of some things that have been put off for a while, road or infrastructure projects are about the best way to accomplish all three objectives.

[DetroitPlanner]

If anyone would like to see a list of stimulus funding projects submitted by their city:

http://www.stimuluswatch.org/project/by_state

Perhaps it should be called the Concrete and Asphalt Stimulus Package. I didn't realize that the downturn in the economy was caused by lack of roads.

That list is old, its more of a wish list than constrained to the actual dollars found in the region. I also have to question why I-275 is listed.

[Jason]

Most of the landmarks that I can think of are already lit up. I agree that replacing them with something better would be good, but I don't think it is an urgent problem.

I think what would be a really good idea would be using new technology to replace the street's lighting systems. Lighting has been a chronic problem. A new system that is long lasting, low maintenance, and produced its own electricity would be great. And that would really be something innovative and progressive, and would improve the public image as well as improve the city. And this is the exact type of thing the stimulus money was meant for.

[Stosh]

Most of the landmarks that I can think of are already lit up. I agree that replacing them with something better would be good, but I don't think it is an urgent problem.

I think what would be a really good idea would be using new technology to replace the street's lighting systems. Lighting has been a chronic problem. A new system that is long lasting, low maintenance, and produced its own electricity would be great. And that would really be something innovative and progressive, and would improve the public image as well as improve the city. And this is the exact type of thing the stimulus money was meant for.

Exactly. Not an urgent problem at all.

LED lighting is a great technology that reduces the overall cost of the use of electricity, and maintenance and replacement of bulbs. It's far more appropriate for street lighting, though the light is of a lesser quality in some cases.

I believe that currently the City produces their own power, probably through burning of fossil fuels, with the steam lines a byproduct currently in use to heat the buildings. How one separates the two, and if there's a cost savings is anyone's guess.

That would have been a project for the stimulus money, in keeping with the purposes.