Stimulus Funding for Illuminating Detroit's Landmarks

[Lorax]

Insensitive?

I hope you saved some of your umbrage for the City of Detroit and it's inability to light the streets.

Perhaps there should be a little more outrage directed where it will do the most good, at the people who are directly responsible for lighting the streets in the first place.

This thread isn't about street lighting anymore than it's about rat control.

I really love the whining about how any resources or windfalls coming the city's way should be used to fill gaps in local taxation to repair or fix what your tax dollars should be doing.

[Stosh]

I would like to see MCD lit up like artist Jeff Sturges lit up HP Ford HQ.

It's a nice look. Too bad for the rest of the city though.

I'm talking about ground up lighting on all sides, visible for miles in all directions, as in Paris, if you indeed read my original post. No half-measures or dinky lighting schemes, but modern, cutting edge LED technology lighting.

I really don't think that there's an affordable LED with that candle power to light a high rise. And lighting the MCD would be a great idea. It would keep the hipsters away at night. But lighting would probably would allow them to just tag the place further with paint and give them more hours to rip off what's left.

[wolverine]

It's a nice look. Too bad for the rest of the city though.

I really don't think that there's an affordable LED with that candle power to light a high rise. And lighting the MCD would be a great idea. It would keep the hipsters away at night. But lighting would probably would allow them to just tag the place further with paint and give them more hours to rip off what's left.

http://www.warrenkarlenzig.com/2008/...led-make-over/

[Stosh]

http://www.warrenkarlenzig.com/2008/...led-make-over/

Yes, I've seen this before. LED lights lack the candlepower beyond a few stories. The premise held out previously in this thread was to light the buildings from the ground up. This would require a lot of wiring, to do installation of any lighting in stages. And not insignicant is the initial costs of the bulbs themselves.

[kraig]

Here's a thought. Take some stimulus money and light up the city's streetlights. I don't know, maybe I'm thinking too much inside the box.

[Locke09]

Insensitive?

I hope you saved some of your umbrage for the City of Detroit and it's inability to light the streets.

Perhaps there should be a little more outrage directed where it will do the most good, at the people who are directly responsible for lighting the streets in the first place.

This thread isn't about street lighting anymore than it's about rat control.

I really love the whining about how any resources or windfalls coming the city's way should be used to fill gaps in local taxation to repair or fix what your tax dollars should be doing.

Using stimulus money to address budget deficits caused by reduced revenue caused by the economic downturn is already an acceptable use of stimulus money. The state is using it for that purpose.

Other than that, just imagine what criticism Michigan would receive for using stimulus money to light up buildings.

This thread is okay if you're just dreaming. But if you're really serious, then think about what the reaction of the citizens of Detroit and most everyone else will be. Do you hear the sound of praise and applause; oohs and aahs? I don't. They're too drowned out by the accusations of wasting taxpayer dollars, beautifying downtown while leaving the neighborhoods in the dark and elitism [[because we thought that was a worthy cause for funding while people are losing jobs and homes).

[Lorax]

That's because you've given up.

All I hear is whining from people who are so damn practical, and look what the city looks like using your metric.

You are either going to be content wallowing in your own self pity, or open your minds to something constructive that would draw attention to, and underscore what the city of Detroit really needs, which is a vision.

All the money in the world for fixing basics, which should be covered by your tax dollars, won't give you a vision to what the future of the city could be.

Lighting schemes aside, this begs the larger question-

When are the people of this region going to wake up and realize they are squandering their greatest resources, constantly carping about how great things used to be, tossing blame around rather than doing something about it.

What ever happened to mass rallies, protesting in the streets?

You could take a page from your parents and grandparents who marched in the 60's for social change, and you may actually get some press on it.

You're all acting like survivors of some great tragedy who would rather drown their memories in self pity and constant naysaying rather than doing something about it.

There have been many positive reactions to this thread, and now the tide has turned to pessimism.

If this blog serves nothing more than opening up one person's closed mind to the possibilities of what can be, rather than what is, then it's been a success in my view.

Geez, we put a president in the White House who exemplifies the power of what can be, whether or not you voted for him is immaterial, the story is extraordinary.

Time to grow up, Detroit, and start assessing blame where it's due, holding your elected officials' feet to the fire and demanding accountability as to where your tax dollars are spent.

Get the lighting commission to light your streets if it's such a big concern to you. You are already taxed for it.

Oh, and by the way, eventhough the state is plugging budget holes with stimulus money, doesn't make it right or acceptable.
That's up to those of you who vote.

[Locke09]

No one is being a pessimist on this thread, yet. People are asserting that there are much more important priorities than lighting buildings. That is not defeated thinking. That is mature and responsible thinking. And that is what has been lacking for so long in this whole country. Wasting money when it is plentiful [[or seemingly plentiful) and having nothing in reserve when times get tight.

How about coming up with a novel use for stimulus money that actually does stimulate the economy and benefit the people, preferably in a sustainable manner. That would be impressive.

Oh yeah....and the stimulus money is our tax money.

The idea of the outside lighting is good, just not the use of stimulus money for it.

[MIRepublic]

The idea of the outside lighting is good, just not the use of stimulus money for it.

This is really what it came down to, to me, and I said as much. It's a noble goal, but if anyone wants it they should be lobbying downtown business owners or the Downtown Partnership to chip in to this. The stimulus pot is entirely the wrong pot to try to pull this from for this. Let's be clear, someone like Hines has more than enough money to put towards lighting the top of Comerica Tower, for instance. It's something more than appropriate that efforts be put towards bringing major downtown property to help with the beautification of their own properties. Advocating using public stimulus money to light private property is either irresponsible or short-sighted, neither of which are good things to be accused of.

[Stosh]

That's because you've given up.

Why, yes we have. Thanks for sharing that thought. We are so much better off for that.

All I hear is whining from people who are so damn practical, and look what the city looks like using your metric.

Practicality is what this city needs, not madness. I think a little practicality would actually help.

You are either going to be content wallowing in your own self pity, or open your minds to something constructive that would draw attention to, and underscore what the city of Detroit really needs, which is a vision.

And really, this lighting scheme will underscore what? What Detroit really needs? Better schools? Better government? A tax base that fits the government? Less opressive taxes on the citizens? Fixing the neighborhoods?

All the money in the world for fixing basics, which should be covered by your tax dollars, won't give you a vision to what the future of the city could be.

Well, it don't cover it. 300 million +deficit, on top of the State's clusterf*^k.

Lighting schemes aside, this begs the larger question-

When are the people of this region going to wake up and realize they are squandering their greatest resources, constantly carping about how great things used to be, tossing blame around rather than doing something about it.

Any suggestions that will actually fix the city are more than welcome. We'll nit-pick and rip them apart as they come in, thanks. Can you give some concrete examples of this alleged waste of resources? Your'e more than welcome to come up and run for office if there's anything that you feel that you can steer the region toward.

What ever happened to mass rallies, protesting in the streets?

You could take a page from your parents and grandparents who marched in the 60's for social change, and you may actually get some press on it.

Last time I looked, inciting a riot was against the law in this state. Besides, we still haven't fully recovered from the negative press from 1984's Tigerfest...

You're all acting like survivors of some great tragedy who would rather drown their memories in self pity and constant naysaying rather than doing something about it.

Well, that's because it IS a tragedy, Lorax. Scan the news reports.

[quote]There have been many positive reactions to this thread, and now the tide has turned to pessimism. [quote]

Gee. I wonder why...

If this blog serves nothing more than opening up one person's closed mind to the possibilities of what can be, rather than what is, then it's been a success in my view.

Geez, we put a president in the White House who exemplifies the power of what can be, whether or not you voted for him is immaterial, the story is extraordinary.

Time to grow up, Detroit, and start assessing blame where it's due, holding your elected officials' feet to the fire and demanding accountability as to where your tax dollars are spent.

Get the lighting commission to light your streets if it's such a big concern to you. You are already taxed for it.

Oh, and by the way, eventhough the state is plugging budget holes with stimulus money, doesn't make it right or acceptable.
That's up to those of you who vote.

Thank you, for restating that again!. I think the citizens of Detroit can figure it out on their own. Maybe you could consider a few letters on the Freep and News websites to stir them up a bit. How about the Michigan Chronicle?

[Lorax]

Well, I'm going to apologize for starting this thread.

Obviously the rest of you have done such a bang up job in the ideas department, that you have it all in hand.

You know what the issues are facing the region, and seem to have the answers on how to fix them.

Why is it then, that Detroit keeps sliding down a sinkhole?

The defeatism in this forum is breathtaking.

Someone offers a positive, forward thinking proposal, an idea, if you will, to bring some real visual change to the city, something to be proud of, and all that comes back is whining negativism.

Sure, it's easy to pounce on something new, and to try and find ways to make it impractical, that's the easy route.

However, the Detroit I grew up in wasn't occupied by a bunch of defeatists. They knew how to solve problems, not throw up roadblocks to any new or better ideas getting through.

With the attitudes I see here, it's no wonder Detroit is taking it's final plunge. Even cities like Pittsburgh and Cleveland have done a better job of arresting their problems, moving beyond their old industries, and emerging smaller, yet better places for it. Ask anyone who lives there, and there is renewed pride in being a native of the area.

With the billions wasted on misguided development plans over the years, you can't tell me there isn't funding available somewhere to carry out projects that would provide the kind of visual impact that something like an illumination project would.

People need to see changes happening before they believe it. It that means replacing lamp posts, so be it, if it means twice weekly garbage collection so be it. Snow removal, fine. All well and good, and things that should be done with the taxes collected. If they are not being done, call city hall.

This thread wasn't suppose to be about the dull and earnest day-to-day operations of the city, go to another thread for that, there's plenty of them.

If New York took this same attitude, then I guess revamping Central Park, restoring city monuments, paying for public art installations are all wastes of time, based on what I'm hearing here.

And New York has a collapsing infrastucture, exploding manhole covers, sewers collapsing, problems with trash pick up, the subway is filthy and unsafe. I guess everything else, including expousing new ideas, should grind to a halt in New York until these things get fixed.

And in a city with 11 million people, in a far smaller area than Detroit, New York's problems are only magnified, so Detroit has no excuses.

So I withdrawl my premise, and wish you the best of luck, and I promise to not start another thread.

[detmich]

Well, I'm going to apologize for starting this thread.

This thread wasn't suppose to be about the dull and earnest day-to-day operations of the city, go to another thread for that, there's plenty of them.

If New York took this same attitude, then I guess revamping Central Park, restoring city monuments, paying for public art installations are all wastes of time, based on what I'm hearing here.

And New York has a collapsing infrastucture, exploding manhole covers, sewers collapsing, problems with trash pick up, the subway is filthy and unsafe. I guess everything else, including expousing new ideas, should grind to a halt in New York until these things get fixed.

And in a city with 11 million people, in a far smaller area than Detroit, New York's problems are only magnified, so Detroit has no excuses.

So I withdrawl my premise, and wish you the best of luck, and I promise to not start another thread.

You do not even have your facts straight.

1) Central Park "revamping" is paid for by the Central Park Conservancy. A privately funded organization. If you want to offer a concrete Detroit solution, one might be to start a Belle Isle Conservancy. That would be too practical I suppose.

2) The Subway is not filthy, and is actually quite safe.Exploding manhole covers? No trash pickup? What decade are you living in? You're about 20 years out of date.

3) There are 8.5 million people in NY city. New York has 304 square miles, Detroit 143 Square miles. Get the facts straight before you start squandering money on lighting buildings.

[gravitymachine]

All I hear is whining from people who are so damn practical, and look what the city looks like using your metric.

yes, damn us all to hell for thinking gimmicks won't save us.

the city has a $300 million dollar budget deficit, fix that and we can talk about some lights.

[Bearinabox]

I'm seeing a recurring pattern on here:

1. OP posts idea.

2. People critique idea.

3. OP has a meltdown because the people who critiqued the idea were too closed-minded and backward to recognize the brilliance of the idea. OP then attributes all Detroit's problems to said closed-minded and backward attitude, condescendingly implying that if only "you Detroiters" [[for some reason, the people who start these threads always seem to live out of state) were willing to listen to him/her, all the city's problems would be solved.

4. Reasonable and intelligent people everywhere [[who previously may or may not have been receptive to the idea) conclude, on the basis of this meltdown, that the OP is an incorrigible, self-obsessed blowhard who has nothing but contempt for the city and its residents, and who thinks that the reason our streetlights don't work is that nobody ever thought to "call city hall." Whether this conclusion is correct is immaterial.

5. The idea is never discussed again. Its merits, whatever they may be, are rendered irrelevant.