Work has begun at MCS

[detroitbob66]

I remember that TROY idoit !!! Thank God his mark is gone!

[wolverine]

You're right....I do remember TROY. I guess I just figured when graffiti disappeared it was covered up with more graffiti.

I wonder if anyone else besides I have read the National Park Service Preservation Brief #38, "Removing Graffiti from Historic Masonry"? It would be most important in this endeavor if they hope to do it right.

http://www.nps.gov/history/hps/tps/briefs/brief38.htm

Great link. My building uses the baking soda method which leaves no ugly paint shadows. Unfortunately it creates a huge mess on the ground

[Gistok]

A century ago Detroit had another businessman that everyone hated his guts.... that was James Scott. He was an unscrupulous businessman, a womanizer, gambler and a scoundrel [[I don't think Matty has all those bases covered)... anyway when Scott died in 1910, he left his fortune to the city of Detroit to build some kind of monument... the only stipulation being that there be a statue of him included as part of the deal.

Well the citizens and politicians of the city were outraged... why [[they thought) should they do anything with Scott's "blood money", least of all memorialize him with a statue.

So the money sat gaining interest until finally some folks who weren't blinded by their hatred for Scott, decided in the 1920s to build the Scott Fountain and Lagoon on the newly added [[via river dredge material) west end of Belle Isle. So today we have Scott Fountain as the crowning centerpiece of the citys greatest park.

Now fast forward a century... Matty Maroun... is probably the most hated businessman in Detroit. And whatever his motives... he's old... and likely not going to live long enough to see any bridge built... his or a public bridge.

So perhaps [[and this is just a guess)... he wants to leave a memorial to say "I'm not such a scoundrel as you all think I am"... and that memorial could be the saving of the MCS... the largest landmark in the city outside of Downtown-Midtown-New Center.

Granted, he doesn't have anyone interested in the MCS at the moment, and may not for many years... but if he secures the building from further decay, and cleans the exterior, new windows, and a new roof... and at some point in the future a new use is found for this over-the-top monument... then in many ways... he may have secured his legacy for the future.... regardless of how our emotions get in the way of our judgement about all his actions in the present.

In 1963 when New York City's magnificent and cavernous Pennsylvania Station was razed... the New York Times wrote in an Op-Ed piece... "perhaps we will be remembered more for what we have destroyed than what we have saved..."

If Matty does indeed start the long uphill battle to save one of America's most magnificent buildings... then future generations will likely treat his legacy like we today treat James Scott's legacy.... "yeah he was a scoundrel... but look what a wonderful monument he preserved for us..."

[mcsdetroitfriend]

Well put Gistok!

A century ago Detroit had another businessman that everyone hated his guts.... that was James Scott. He was an unscrupulous businessman, a womanizer, gambler and a scoundrel [[I don't think Matty has all those bases covered)... anyway when Scott died in 1910, he left his fortune to the city of Detroit to build some kind of monument... the only stipulation being that there be a statue of him included as part of the deal.

Well the citizens and politicians of the city were outraged... why [[they thought) should they do anything with Scott's "blood money", least of all memorialize him with a statue.

So the money sat gaining interest until finally some folks who weren't blinded by their hatred for Scott, decided in the 1920s to build the Scott Fountain and Lagoon on the newly added [[via river dredge material) west end of Belle Isle. So today we have Scott Fountain as the crowning centerpiece of the citys greatest park.

Now fast forward a century... Matty Maroun... is probably the most hated businessman in Detroit. And whatever his motives... he's old... and likely not going to live long enough to see any bridge built... his or a public bridge.

So perhaps [[and this is just a guess)... he wants to leave a memorial to say "I'm not such a scoundrel as you all think I am"... and that memorial could be the saving of the MCS... the largest landmark in the city outside of Downtown-Midtown-New Center.

Granted, he doesn't have anyone interested in the MCS at the moment, and may not for many years... but if he secures the building from further decay, and cleans the exterior, new windows, and a new roof... and at some point in the future a new use is found for this over-the-top monument... then in many ways... he may have secured his legacy for the future.... regardless of how our emotions get in the way of our judgement about all his actions in the present.

In 1963 when New York City's magnificent and cavernous Pennsylvania Station was razed... the New York Times wrote in an Op-Ed piece... "perhaps we will be remembered more for what we have destroyed than what we have saved..."

If Matty does indeed start the long uphill battle to save one of America's most magnificent buildings... then future generations will likely treat his legacy like we today treat James Scott's legacy.... "yeah he was a scoundrel... but look what a wonderful monument he preserved for us..."

[CLAUDE G]

I would love to see the Amtrack station moved back to Michigan Central Depot.

The building would look awesome at night with some big flood lights.

[mcsdetroitfriend]

I'll tell you what I'm excited for on top of this: MCS's appearance in the new Transformer's film, something about an angel statue inside holding what looks like a giant spear...

[mcsdetroitfriend]

This is how MCS is looking lately, good start

Credit to Band!to on Flickr

[Whitehouse]

I don't think Matty Moroun owns the airspace above MCS so I think this footage of it is perfectly legal.


Someone took a video from above with an RC plane.

[wolverine]

This is how MCS is looking lately, good start

Credit to Band!to on Flickr

Heck, it already looks better without the broken glass hanging there in the windows

[mcsdetroitfriend]

Was there today and found all the windows on the main North face plus most all the windows on the east side had been cleared. Still some shards remaining on a few window frames, and glass still litters the floor of the space between the big arches, maybe they'll clean that out when they go inside.


Big thing I noticed is the windows in the "Womens" and "Reading" rooms on the far east and west sides still maintain their louvering abilities. I've never seen any photographs of them open other than the construction photographs I have.

[wolverine]

I hope those vaulted ceilings get a bit of repair and extra reinforcement. They are constructed of terra-cotta block infill set into a thin steel frame, which is carried by large steel trusses. They are then faced on the other underside in decorative stone. They have fared pretty well surprisingly despite that there's probably plenty of water pouring and freezing on top of them.

[mcsdetroitfriend]

The Guastavino arches are actually despite the wear and tear in great shape...last year I had an expert from MIT, John Ochsendorf [[look him up he's quite impressive), come by to check out the vaults and he was mighty impressed. This guy literally wrote the book on the style of vaults/arches inside MCS and he gave them a good inspection and basically said - to paraphrase - you could drive several trucks over these vaults and they'd be fine...

Even gave the building a pretty good structural rating saying the beams on the first 4 floors looked great considering the harsh winters they've gone through over the years.

He basically concluded that the damage to the arches is more cosmetic than structural and fixing up would be really easy.

[MDoyle]

Any work if they are going to repaint the frames the original blue/green color? Once the glass is out I'd love to see them wash the fascade. Didn't they start that process at one time?

[mcsdetroitfriend]

Any work if they are going to repaint the frames the original blue/green color? Once the glass is out I'd love to see them wash the fascade. Didn't they start that process at one time?

I have no idea if they'll even keep the original frames. Although personally I hated that blue/green copper patina look. You can still see it on some frames, I have no clue if that was the original color or added later to match the copper roofs aging appearance, but looking at old black and white photographs everything looks dark on the window frames.

See earlier in the thread about the facade. Limestone can be very fickle and likes to absorb things in the air, washing the facade is something that would have to happen several times a year.

[wolverine]

If they wanted to do it right and preserve the historical look, they could restore the frames, but not replace the glass within. In the long run if the building were occupied, they wouldn't be energy efficient. Instead they could use butt-jointed glass behind the original frame and stiffen it by running custom engineered standoffs between the parallel frames. The appearance would be virtually identical to the original, but with a modern glazing system.

The likely, VE'ed fix would be ugly painted aluminum frames with chunky 4-6" mullions.

[wolverine]

The Guastavino arches are actually despite the wear and tear in great shape...last year I had an expert from MIT, John Ochsendorf [[look him up he's quite impressive), come by to check out the vaults and he was mighty impressed. This guy literally wrote the book on the style of vaults/arches inside MCS and he gave them a good inspection and basically said - to paraphrase - you could drive several trucks over these vaults and they'd be fine...

Even gave the building a pretty good structural rating saying the beams on the first 4 floors looked great considering the harsh winters they've gone through over the years.

He basically concluded that the damage to the arches is more cosmetic than structural and fixing up would be really easy.

Most of the steel should be fine. It was encased in concrete for fire reasons, then covered with plaster. Despite some chips on the edges, recent photos show the fire-protective substrate in decent shape despite all the crumbling plaster. If there's any part I'm concerned about on the station, it's the facade. You really need a good inspection done on this. Not even a casual observation by an engineer will do. There's plenty of water getting into the inside, which then runs to the edges of the slab beneath block infill, and then down through the cavity, exposing all those ties to alot of moisture. Not even well maintained stone facade buildings can evade moisture infiltration into these cavity areas. It's a basic reality of older masonry buildings.

[detroitbob66]

This was taken on Friday 6/17/2011

[Whitehouse]

Still freaking me out to see those well maintained forecourts of the MCS against the backdrop of the MCS itself. Is there also some roofwork being done there in that picture or is that still a result of decay? And what is written on tht sign?

[mcsdetroitfriend]

Still freaking me out to see those well maintained forecourts of the MCS against the backdrop of the MCS itself. Is there also some roofwork being done there in that picture or is that still a result of decay? And what is written on tht sign?

Professional Abatement Services Inc is what the sign is for...and no roof work, that's just something that's been peeled back

[Whitehouse]

Would you miss the Detroit MCs as it is? In a few moths maybe to you it will be unrecorgizable since most of you never knew the building other than being a ruin and a marvalous film location. Don't get me wrong, a vibrant building in that part of town can be a magnet of progress. It will take long but someone took the task of rebuilding the Book Cadillac hotel. And now more buildings are in the process of restoration. I hope the MCS will be a similar magnet.


But let's face it. MCS was never better captured as in this part of the movie Naqoyqatsi as a backdrop for the music of Philip Glass and Yo Yo Ma.







I hope this work being done is not just a preparation for this stunt.... which was discussed here.


I'm sure you don't need it but this is a nice introduction to the uninitiated with the MCS. H also has a Cass tech video up which I post in the Cass thread. But I think his premonition about the fate of the depo might not come true hopefully.

[mcsdetroitfriend]

I can assure you the stunt has nothing to do with what's going on at the station...

Would you miss the Detroit MCs as it is? In a few moths maybe to you it will be unrecorgizable since most of you never knew the building other than being a ruin and a marvalous film location. Don't get me wrong, a vibrant building in that part of town can be a magnet of progress. It will take long but someone took the task of rebuilding the Book Cadillac hotel. And now more buildings are in the process of restoration. I hope the MCS will be a similar magnet.


But let's face it. MCS was never better captured as in this part of the movie Naqoyqatsi as a backdrop for the music of Philip Glass and Yo Yo Ma.







I hope this work being done is not just a preparation for this stunt.... which was discussed here.


I'm sure you don't need it but this is a nice introduction to the uninitiated with the MCS. H also has a Cass tech video up which I post in the Cass thread. But I think his premonition about the fate of the depo might not come true hopefully.

[mcsdetroitfriend]

I also take issue with Jay's information, misinformed...last train left in 88, last person left the building in 1991...Maroun bought it in 1996....

Would you miss the Detroit MCs as it is? In a few moths maybe to you it will be unrecorgizable since most of you never knew the building other than being a ruin and a marvalous film location. Don't get me wrong, a vibrant building in that part of town can be a magnet of progress. It will take long but someone took the task of rebuilding the Book Cadillac hotel. And now more buildings are in the process of restoration. I hope the MCS will be a similar magnet.


But let's face it. MCS was never better captured as in this part of the movie Naqoyqatsi as a backdrop for the music of Philip Glass and Yo Yo Ma.







I hope this work being done is not just a preparation for this stunt.... which was discussed here.


I'm sure you don't need it but this is a nice introduction to the uninitiated with the MCS. H also has a Cass tech video up which I post in the Cass thread. But I think his premonition about the fate of the depo might not come true hopefully.

[Mark The kid]

mcs needs to be saved! look at the book cadillac look how that has change the area around it. if the saved MCS how would that area change.

[Rocko]

I did not know, until I looked at that photo of them building the depot, that there were movable sections within the large windows on the facade of the Waiting Room. I mean, it makes perfect and logical sense, I just didn't think about it....

In my opinion, WHEN the depot is renovated [[and I feel its a bit more of a reality now), some portion of it should be maintained in its current [[stabilized) state. The building opened in 1913 and closed in 1988, and in the meantime, fully one quarter of its near-100 year lifespan has been spent in a state of disuse and decay. The elements and many many depot "visitors" have visited and made their mark over the years. Not that I don't want to see the building restored....indeed I hope they very best practices and the Secretary of the Interior's Standards will be followed when it comes to restoring at least the grand public spaces of the building, but I think it's fair and right to pay respect to what we have had to endure for the past 20+ years, and so we REMEMBER where we've been.

An entire generation of Detroiters and metro-Detroiters, myself included, never knew the depot in even a shadow of its operational glory. We've just known it in some state of decay and abandonment. Maintaining at least one space - be it elevator lobby, alcove, room in the arcade or foyer in a stabilized version of its decayed graffitied state would serve to remind us all not only of that lengthy chapter in the building's history, but that part of the story of Detroit as well. It could be symbolic for visitors and residents to be able to come and see what it was actually like on the inside....in one place....since no doubt so many have seen photos of it with broken windows both near and far.

That being said, when they restore the waiting room and concourse, I hope they will leave the weathered surfaces of the limestone, terra cotta, and any original marble that is left. The richness of the weathering is a tangible thing people can touch and see which also helps to tell the story of the past 23 years. But I do hope they'll carefully remove the graffiti

[mallory]

I'd have to disagree with the statement about the MCS never being captured better than in the Naqoyqatsi piece. It might have been better off had it been shot in, oh, I don't know, maybe COLOR! For my money, I've seen lots of ruin porn that captures more of the essence of the failure of the MCS than the Naqoyqatsi video. Personally, I'd take Em's music video any day.

As for Jay Scott, who the hell is he and who gives a rat's tuckus what he has to say? "Gee, I'll just grab my kid brothers video camera and shoot seven minutes of my own personal diatribe on what's wrong with [[fill in the blank) and I'll be famous." Right!