It WAS nice to dream for a second on transit.

[Detroitnerd]

OMG, hahaha. That was hilarious, Krause. Thanks for a much-needed laugh.

[iheartthed]

New list announced for M1 stations in phase 1:
https://home.crainsdetroit.com/click...hed-on-m1-rail

1. Hart Plaza Station
2. Coleman A. Young Municipal Center Station
3. Quicken Loans Station
4. Campus Martius Park Station
5. Compuware Station
6. Hudson's Urban Garden Station
7. Grand River Avenue Station
8. Grand Circus Park South -- Transfer to People Mover
[[Free Shuttle service to People Mover available)
9. Grand Circus Park North -- Transfer to Hoots, Niki's, or Nemo bus
[[Cab stand added to connect to busses)
10. Fillmore Station
11. Fox Theatre Station
12. Hockeytown Station
13. Foxtown Parking Garage Station

The debate continues whether to add an additional five stops on this stretch to continue to foster business growth, as every dollar invested in transit brings back six dollars in private investment. A developer has already pledged that if the train gets built, that he will construct a giant Target store with glass tornado-shaped towers and an 800 space parking garage that looks like a slug monster with a bewildering interior green space on the most prominent Campus Martius real-estate available.

Phase 2 is to add connections to several other garages as well as express service to each stadium during peak travel times.

The design of the cars has yet to be chosen, so it's not clear how the trains will route around Campus Martius. The top contender for car design would individually envelop each passengers automobile so they could ride in the comfort they're used to, while saving gas money.

This "pod" design raises the cost. But GM, having recovered from bankruptcy and recently adding friendship bracelets and large flat-screen televisions to towers of its downtown headquarters, has struck a deal to fill every other car-pod with a floor model of each of their flagship products, in a brilliant display of outside-the-box mobile marketing.

Though all parties have finally agreed on a route, it remains to be seen whether the train will run in a fanciful zig-zag pattern, so that it can be used to cross the street, or tunnel directly through buildings in order to be "sporty" and "fun". A growing consensus says that the wisest compromise is to do both.

To fill a significant gap in the funding budget, Lego has pledged $47 million provided three of the cars are made from their iconic plastic construction blocks.

The final car of the train will play an 8-bit version of "Do Your Ears Hang Low?", with an electronic voice saying "HELLO!" every few minutes, and will sell ice cream to children.

Wait, is this forreal? They want to stop the thing every 100 feet?

ETA: Haha, guess I should have read through the entire thing...

[Joseph C. Krause]

Megan Owens, director of Transportation Riders United, a nonprofit transit advocacy group, wrote in a statement, "Run the thing down the center and let's all stop playing with our own poop."

[casscorridor]

Finally Megan Owens plays hardball!

[j to the jeremy]

Matt Cullen is doing a serious disservice to Detroit. His ignorance and arrogance is outrageous, the belief that curb-side rail will add increase benefit to surrounding businesses is based in myth, not sound evidence. The FTA, DDOT want a fast, center-running light rail [[with a dedicated lane) because it will be of be far more efficient, and offer superior service to a curb-running streetcar. FTA gives out money based on how if improves current service, which is made up of bus riders, currently at least 90% black and working-class. They don't give out money based on how it will boost business. But this is a win-win, as center-running will be far better for business because it will transport customers more efficiently than a curb-running. Good Luck getting people to ride a slow-moving, street car with dozens of stops from the city limits to Downtown. But if it was fast, and had less frequent stops, people could get there far easier, and more people would use the system. This equals more potential customers for surrounding businesses. Matt Cullen and M1 need to listen to the transit experts on this one. Or else they will single-handedly hold the blame for corrupting our transportation future.

Agreed. It's really sad to watch the business community screw itself. At least when this is all over, the folks at GM can console the M1 crew by reminding them how evil transit really is. [[and i wonder how much say they've been having behind the scenes)

The arrogance shown by M1 in refusing to help fund this is incredible. The federal government was giving out transit dollars, and Obama wanted Detroit to get rail. I believe that if this DDOT line is not built, there will never be an M1 rail, and will never be true rapid transit in Detroit. Maybe we can spring for some BRT in 50 years once all the oil's gone and Detroit is the only big city in the western world still running completely on cars.

[dtowncitylover]

Another reason why the young adults, such as my self, are leaving or want to leave. The businesses they could work for are acting like 5 year olds. I've had it up to my neck with this area. I've got my list of cities of where I'd like to move. Unlike this region, I have a plan.

[ghettopalmetto]

New list announced for M1 stations in phase 1:
https://home.crainsdetroit.com/click...hed-on-m1-rail

1. Hart Plaza Station
2. Coleman A. Young Municipal Center Station
3. Quicken Loans Station
4. Campus Martius Park Station
5. Compuware Station
6. Hudson's Urban Garden Station
7. Grand River Avenue Station
8. Grand Circus Park South -- Transfer to People Mover
[[Free Shuttle service to People Mover available)
9. Grand Circus Park North -- Transfer to Hoots, Niki's, or Nemo bus
[[Cab stand added to connect to busses)
10. Fillmore Station
11. Fox Theatre Station
12. Hockeytown Station
13. Foxtown Parking Garage Station

No American/Lafayette Coney Island Station? Is there at least a shuttle bus available from Quicken Loans?

[BrushStart]

Don't these billionaires understand that the TRUE value they will realize is not created by a trolley that will shuttle lemming sports fans to the doorstep of the stadium, but rather by increasing the value of the real estate that they own. Using their money to build a game-day shuttle is the most frivolous way they could spend it. They would all benefit more if they added an amenity that attracted thousands of people to the area and drove up the value of the property and the demand for their businesses. This recent move makes them look like unsophisticated loons.

[ghettopalmetto]

Don't these billionaires understand that the TRUE value of light rail is not created by dropping lemming sports fans off at the doorstep of the stadium, but rather by the increase of the property values of the property THAT THEY OWN. Using their money to build a game-day shuttle is the most frivolous way they could spend it. They would all benefit far more if they added an amenity that attracted thousands of people to the area and drove up the value of the property and the demand for their businesses. This recent move makes them look like unsophisticated loons.

Apologies to all of you who have posted on this thread...

...but do you ever start wondering if anyone in Michigan has ever travelled outside of Michigan??? Because it sure as shit seems that way sometimes.

It's pretty ridiculous to scuttle a project with such huge potential just because you think Detroiters are too lazy to make it halfway across the street on foot.

[BrushStart]

Apologies to all of you who have posted on this thread...

...but do you ever start wondering if anyone in Michigan has ever travelled outside of Michigan??? Because it sure as shit seems that way sometimes.

It's pretty ridiculous to scuttle a project with such huge potential just because you think Detroiters are too lazy to make it halfway across the street on foot.

Perhaps not! Perhaps they are so inept that they just can't envision the economic benefits of effective transit. I would have thought, though, that they would have figured it out by reading all of the charts and graphs showing the explosion of property values and demand for products and services that ALWAYS accompanies light rail projects.

[Richard]

Don't these billionaires understand that the TRUE value they will realize is not created by a trolley that will shuttle lemming sports fans to the doorstep of the stadium, but rather by increasing the value of the real estate THAT THEY OWN. Using their money to build a game-day shuttle is the most frivolous way they could spend it. They would all benefit far more if they added an amenity that attracted thousands of people to the area and drove up the value of the property and the demand for their businesses. This recent move makes them look like unsophisticated loons.

That is the whole point of why they would want it to run down the side,because the property side that has the rail will have a higher value instantly because the riders will prefer to get off and not have to cross all the way to the other side to shop etc.

If it is run down the middle the whole land grab aspect is eliminated and it becomes a fair situation for both sides and not just improvements on the one side first.

[Joseph C. Krause]

ghettopalmetto,

Sarcasm off. You've hit on something. I feel it would be a valuable use of public money to treat every person in a leadership position to a multi-city world tour for a series of conferences. It doesn't matter so much what the conferences are even about, so long as they are all in real cities, in a variety of countries, and with the convention taking places many miles away from where they're staying, with no per diem that could be used for cabs.

[ghettopalmetto]

ghettopalmetto,

Sarcasm off. You've hit on something. I feel it would be a valuable use of public money to treat every person in a leadership position to a multi-city world tour for a series of conferences. It doesn't matter so much what the conferences are even about, so long as they are all in real cities, in a variety of countries, and with the convention taking places many miles away from where they're staying, with no per diem that could be used for cabs.

We get to choose the locations, right? Because if we leave the deciding up to the powers-that-be, they'll just take more "economic trade missions" to sub-Saharan Africa, Hawaii, and the Caribbean.

[Joseph C. Krause]

James Howard Kunstler gets to choose the cities.

[j to the jeremy]

Ha! he hates Detroit, too...

Places with better mass transit than Detroit: Texas, all of Europe, all of the East Coast, 3rd world countries, even Baghdad has two commuter train lines, and we just finished bombing and then rebuilding them!

[bartock]

Don't these billionaires understand that the TRUE value they will realize is not created by a trolley that will shuttle lemming sports fans to the doorstep of the stadium, but rather by increasing the value of the real estate THAT THEY OWN. Using their money to build a game-day shuttle is the most frivolous way they could spend it. They would all benefit far more if they added an amenity that attracted thousands of people to the area and drove up the value of the property and the demand for their businesses. This recent move makes them look like unsophisticated loons.

Lemming sports fans? That's classy.

[j to the jeremy]

Almost as classy as making money hand over fist somewhere, and then preventing the city you operate in from getting public transportation.

[BrushStart]

That is the whole point of why they would want it to run down the side,because the property side that has the rail will have a higher value instantly because the riders will prefer to get off and not have to cross all the way to the other side to shop etc.

If it is run down the middle the whole land grab aspect is eliminated and it becomes a fair situation for both sides and not just improvements on the one side first.

Virtually all of the M1 backers will recoup far more than their $25mm investment over the long-term if light rail is an effective piece of mass transit.

With all of the property and businesses Ilitch owns, he stands to make much more than $25mm in terms of property appreciation and demand increases for his entertainment venues. Same with Gilbert considering all of the buildings the guy just bought, probably the same for Karmanos. I'm not sure about Penske. It should be no question that Kresge supports the center-street plan. I am actually wondering which investors are holding it up. Somehow, I feel that it is only Ilitch. What do Gilbert, Penske, and Karmanos even care? If Ilitch is the holdup, the other investors should just find a new partner and take him out of the picture. What is Dennis Kefallinos doing these days? Perhaps he and Phil Cooley can make up the difference. I don't know how much money they have. Who are the other big downtown players?

[iheartthed]

...but do you ever start wondering if anyone in Michigan has ever travelled outside of Michigan??? Because it sure as shit seems that way sometimes.

I noticed that there is a pretty clear disconnect between what the leadership in and around Detroit advocate, and what people who the leadership claims they want to attract to Michigan find appealing. They want to attract forward thinking, bright, energetic entrepreneurs while governing with a backwater mentality... Not very forward thinking at all. Heck, even the places that Detroiters used to deride as backwaters have implemented more forward thinking policies. It's sad that a city with the potential of Detroit will probably be stifled under the short-sightedness, but what can you do?

[Detroitnerd]

With all of the property and businesses Ilitch owns, he stands to make much more than $25mm in terms of property appreciation and demand increases for his entertainment venues. ... If Ilitch is the holdup, the other investors should just find a new partner and take him out of the picture.

Doesn't it sounds like Ilitch? Grumbling about spending his money and wanting everything to be exactly his way? This is what happens when you have Ilitch as a stakeholder; he fundamentally doesn't understand what makes a city and has always been trying to turn his holdings into a kind of vertically consolidated theme park. And so, instead of a mass transit system, he wants a theme park-style ride. Makes sense, right? It seems to me that Ilitch is not only out of step with urban planning ideals, but actually feels threatened by them. "What?" the old man growls, "I'm supposed to fork over money that benefits other businesses? My competition? If I had my way, there would be no competition!"

Time for the old man to go, I think ...

[Det_ard]

Maybe those businessmen should just put their checkbooks away and let the DY transit collective pony up $100 million.

[bartock]

Almost as classy as making money hand over fist somewhere, and then preventing the city you operate in from getting public transportation.

Sorry, wasn't aware that the lemming sports fans were responsible for that. It was an asshole statement that I've read a hundred times by people who move into the city for five minutes and act as though they've "been through it."

[bartock]

You know exactly who I am talking about. The park-and-shuttle crew who don't live in the city and wouldn't be the ones riding it daily. There is already a transit system to accommodate them. It's called the People Mover, and transporting them from a parking lot near Greektown to the game at [[insert stadium) should not be the top priority of a new mass transit system. That's straight foolishness.

See I'm more inclined to believe that although it is an indirect benefit on gamedays, the desire is more to make it an employee shuttle during the week. I guess either way it really isn't mass transit.

[iheartthed]

Maybe those businessmen should just put their checkbooks away and let the DY transit collective pony up $100 million.

I think most of us already chipped in on the $400 million balance.

[Det_ard]

I think most of us already chipped in on the $400 million balance.

So start chipping in on the $100 million, and take it out of the hands of those you feel don't understand transit.