I say let's see how the automotive industry here in the US fairs LONG-TERM post latest negotiations per Fain's leadership before we start spouting him off for anything bigger.
As the middle-class is pressed it will be interesting to see if this admin remains cosy with unions demanding higher wages against policies severely impacting the cost of living, deficit spending etc.
Against the affirmed wave of migrants who'll work for less and robots, and AI.
Let's see how Stellantis [Chrysler] and Fain look in say three years?
Last edited by Zacha341; March-05-24 at 10:17 AM.
Agreed.
But IME Lowell's original point wasn't literally about Fain, but rather about the fact that we need national leaders who aren't pretending, but who are in fact committed to rebuilding the middle class.
Also, IME three years is hardly 'LONG-TERM' considering that it took neoliberals fifty-five years, plus the assassination of Walter P. Reuther, to kill the middle class. Three years isn't even one bankruptcy cycle for an automaker.
Walter Reuther - Wikipedia
Last edited by Henry Whalley; March-05-24 at 07:02 PM.
Do a little research instead of parroting political talking points,58 % of Americans consider themselves middle class,the people do not even support switching from a service economy back to an industrialized and manufacturing economy,so how are you going to force people to do something they do not want to do?Agreed.
But IME Lowell's original point wasn't literally about Fain, but rather about the fact that we need national leaders who aren't pretending, but who are in fact committed to rebuilding the middle class.
Also, IME three years is hardly 'LONG-TERM' considering that it took neoliberals fifty-five years, plus the assassination of Walter P. Reuther, to kill the middle class. Three years isn't even one bankruptcy cycle for an automaker.
Walter Reuther - Wikipedia
We “need to rebuild the middle class” is code speak for justifying middle class wages for flipping burgers,all the tools are there anybody,can become anything they want.
In the early days Detroit auto workers earned the highest wages in the country without having a skill,because they built stuff.
You cannot say you do not want to build stuff anymore and expect a burger place to pay middle class wages,unless you are ready to pay $50 for a burger.
The people demand cheap products,the politicians cannot change that no matter what they do.
As you can see in the EV thread,you can only squeeze a company so far until you price them out of existence,because Americans thirst for cheap crap will make sure the competition has plenty of advantages.
Last edited by Richard; March-05-24 at 07:29 PM.
Good points regarding how long it took the past neos, but the radical left has accelerated change quite fast in just these last three years!
...Also, IME three years is hardly 'LONG-TERM' considering that it took neoliberals fifty-five years, plus the assassination of Walter P. Reuther, to kill the middle class. Three years isn't even one bankruptcy cycle for an automaker.
Walter Reuther - Wikipedia
Last edited by Zacha341; March-06-24 at 11:55 AM.
UAW should not have settled any talks without massive pay package cuts from the Suits. No cut, no deal. 75-80% cut for Barra or no production plants run.
Now this I can agree with. As you say, the suits will still get their's. No paycuts for them. Those wage increases for the workers will just be reflected in the price of the vehicles they build. The average price for a new car or truck is $40,000 dollars, a all-time high.
Last edited by Cincinnati_Kid; March-06-24 at 07:07 AM.
The union can't bargain over those things. But I see your point.Now this I can agree with. As you say, the suits will still get their's. No paycuts for them. Those wage increases for the workers will just be reflected in the price of the vehicles they build. The average price for a new car or truck is $40,000 dollars, a all-time high.
Stupid capitalists working in a capitalist society thinking like capitalists,who do they think they are,do they not know that socialism is the preferred method in a capitalist society.
Nobody is stopping anybody from going to work on Wall Street and enjoying the fruits it may or may not bear,but it is easier to require somebody to pay you for 5 days of work while only having to work 4,ideally it would be getting paid to stay home and not have to work at all.
Spoken as would be expected from a true capitalist-funded shillbot who can work for free as opposed to human beings striving to create genuine wealth who, in return, need a genuine living wage to survive....Nobody is stopping anybody from going to work on Wall Street and enjoying the fruits it may or may not bear,but it is easier to require somebody to pay you for 5 days of work while only having to work 4,ideally it would be getting paid to stay home and not have to work at all.
They plant these automated shillbots to demoralize human beings: Us.
Where is the outrage?
Bypass the bots. Subvert the Parasitic Saboteurs in Power directly!
Last edited by Jimaz; March-14-24 at 09:56 PM.
Kinda hypocritical to be enjoying the fruits of capitalism while opposing capitalism,ya thinkSpoken as would be expected from a true capitalist-funded shillbot who can work for free as opposed to human beings striving to create genuine wealth who, in return, need a genuine living wage to survive.
They plant these automated shillbots to demoralize human beings: Us.
Where is the outrage?
Bypass the bots. Subvert the Parasitic Saboteurs in Power directly!
Define what a livable wage is in a non Marxist,socialist way.
I have no debt so a livable wage for me can be $200 a week. So that’s the definition.
Last edited by Richard; March-14-24 at 11:45 PM.
Here is some more context to President Fain's testimony:
Shawn Fain at Senate Hearing on 32 Hour Work Week
For the entire hearing from 3/14/24 [see:] Join me LIVE for a hearing to discuss why we must move to a 32-hour workweek – with no loss in pay.
What's so "radical left" about a living wage?
Even the philosopher of capitalism argued for it:
"Servants, laborers and workmen of different kinds, make up the far greater part of every great political society. But what improves the circumstances of the greater part can never be regarded as an inconvenience to the whole. No society can surely be flourishing and happy, of which the far greater part of the members are poor and miserable. It is but equity, besides, that they who feed, clothe, and lodge the whole body of the people, should have such a share of the produce of their own labor as to be themselves tolerably well fed, clothed and lodged." — Adam Smith, Wealth of Nations, I .viii.36
P.S. Unfortunately after Engels, Marx and Lenin, every decent and humane idea could and would be conveniently dismissed as subversive.
If people were not paid a living wage as a majority,then as a majority the population would be living in the streets while owning nothing by that definition.
I can define living wage.
The maximum amount of money expected by a worker while working the least amount of hours,while putting forward the least amount of effort.
Even worse in this country because all the tools are there in order to learn a trade,skill or profession where they can earn above average wages,in most cities for free,it just takes a little effort.
A living wage is a term created by the socialists who prefer everybody to be equally poor while a few at the top hold all the wealth.
Last edited by Richard; March-18-24 at 11:47 PM.
I don't know if this was ever mentioned, but one of the things I wonder about Sean Fenn is if his parents named him after Sinn Fein....
^ definitely two peas in a pod,as they say .
Socialist party achieves goals through the use of violence to overthrow governments in order to implement.
Democrat Socialist Party achieves goals by using the system from within to implement changes over a long period of time.
One is quick and fast the other is slow and methodical,like a wolf in sheep’s clothing.
Last edited by Richard; March-19-24 at 10:01 AM.
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