Raining in Detroit - Expressways and Homes Flooded

[Richard]

That should be JET STREAMS...

Two hours ago you did not have a clue about them.

I notice you and your lib squad of 5 had zero problem when CV posted his multiple paragraph long reply,and yet here you are looking for stupid crap to use as some sort of a tool to keep pushing your narrative of mucking up the forum.

If all the JET STREAMS converged on Detroit,it would not exist anymore,you better hope just one JET STREAM finds its way.

If you told me you were OCD I would understand your reply’s and have more patience,but in the absence of that,it is hard to find anybody that anal retentive,why else would somebody go so far out of their way ?

[canuck]

Forgive us our sins for we know not says Youguy.

Richard/ I go fishing in the gulf,the water temps are always in the mid to high 80s consistently come august and September,all the talk about sea level rise is bunk,it has more to do with astrology and forces that change tide patterns that create flooding events,it always has.

[canuck]

Hey now. Don't knock "the fastest emerging news website." News has to emerge from somewhere, dontcha know? LOL!

Yes, if you want both astrology and the Clean Air Act to be the cause for hurricane buildups, google it, like Youguy does and the Breitbarts and other "News outfits" will have a treat ready for you.

The news that is a great substitute for a "collage" [[sic) education.

[Zacha341]

^ Well there's always NPR, DailyKOS and the Huffington Post to keep us balanced in all areas [smile]......

Me, I'll stick with my venerable [All the news that [we see] is fit to be printed] NYTimes [double smile - ]

[canuck]

^ Well there's always NPR, DailyKOS and the Huffington Post to keep us balanced in all areas [smile]......

Me, I'll stick with my venerable [All the news that [we see] is fit to be printed] NYTimes [double smile - ]

Yes. Even the much maligned big American papers [[ deserved or not) are incomparably more demanding in the search for truths. Apart from the anglosphere’s tradition of not signing op-ed pieces, there are no investigative articles that come out without an apposed author’s name to credit them.

The problem with these websites is that they can jumble pieces from third party publications and not credit anything. But that is only one of the malignant effects of the "just google it til it fits reflex."

[Richard]

Yes, if you want both astrology and the Clean Air Act to be the cause for hurricane buildups, google it, like Youguy does and the Breitbarts and other "News outfits" will have a treat ready for you.

The news that is a great substitute for a "collage" [[sic) education.

How much time you spend on the ocean ? It’s easy to tell you the sea levels are rising because of climate change causing the ice pack to melt too fast.

You will believe it or not,it would not matter because it fits your narrative.

You guys must read or watch all of these news sources that you accuse others of,how else would you know the content in order to use it against others?

Sorry that is that sheep part where because you have the inability to think for yourself you have to follow the scripts.

The sea levels are controlled by the gravitational pull between the earth and the moon as the earth rotates as it gets closer to the moon it causes the seabed to bulge which increases tide levels.

Its not that complicated,NOAA has millions of sensors all across the ocean that tracks it 24/7 365.

Its the educated that are actually the un educated,if you were actually interested in the subject you would do a little research on your own,but you are not,you are just being a good little boy and following the narrative because it is easy,you really do not have to do anything,just repeat what you are told.

I bet you are one of those climate justice warriors that has to drink bottled water,or separates your recycling while thinking it is actually getting recycled.Just so you can say you are doing your part and feel good about your self.

Any numb nuts can say climate change is causing flooding events in Detroit,but if it is and you ask them how?

As you see they have no answers ,that’s why you have to resort to coming up with all the retorts in the world against the poster without actually providing any answers,that’s not being educated,that’s being a sheep and we know what your sheepherders do with sheep.

The Sahara Desert has been in its present state since about 1600 B.C., and it began forming after temperatures were increased significantly by new weather patterns caused by shifts in the Earth’s axis. About 4,300 years ago, the region in which the Sahara Desert is now located is believed to have been moister and supportive of vegetation.

https://www.reference.com/geography/...99fb141ee86488

Many different sources on that subject.

All you are supporting is taking something that has been happening for thousands of years and figuring out a way to monetize it.

[southen]

That’s the thing about Ponzi schemes,they always work because there is enough suckers that climb on board.

What Richard has a problem with us hypocritical people looking to make themselves feel better at others expense.

You do not like industry because it can be dirty if not properly implemented.

But yet you still drive cars,buy plastic products,wear clothes,use electronic devices and want to enjoy the benefits it provides.

You have done nothing to save the planet or do anything about climate change by removing the industry out of your back yard and into somebody else’s,stop buying the products that industry provides,including the clothes on your back otherwise you do not even believe the BS you are dumping on others.

All you did was puff your chest up under the false pretense of saving the planet while the people that depended on that income are now eating dirt.

You are not supporting anything all you are doing is making places like China rich while you devolve down to the level that they were before everybody dumped their industry on them.

One would figure that somebody living in the era that was dependent on industry,got rid of it ,and now suffers the consequences of it,would understand what happens without it.

You can really become one with nature as you are laying naked under stars,eating roots or otters because you no longer have the money to buy food or shelter.

Funny how the auto manufacturers are walking back those EV launch deadlines.

Funny how places like Rivian are losing stock value by the day.

Or maybe because once the reality sets in so does the intelligence.

Come at me naked without owning anything and tell me you are saving the planet,at that point I will say congratulations,until then all you are doing is promoting the next Ponzi scheme and expecting others to be the same suckers.

As you are circling down that toilet while trying to convince yourself you are actually doing something to save the planet,multiple other states are announcing brand new billion dollar factorys being built,bringing thousands of jobs and bringing millions of revenue to those cities and states.

And guess what - They are all industry and industrial,the only new ones you have drawn are the exact same companies that caused the city to empty out in the first place.

I am sure you were out there protesting the battery factory in Michigan,you know those things that provide pollution and help destroy the planet ?

My guess was no.

What I love about this is that in your brain the United States and Detroit lost its' industry due to environmentalists and not corporations going where they could exploit labor more and to places that offered ridiculous tax incentives. Damn those Detroiters who wanted cleaner air and companies to follow EPA rules. Damn those Detroiters who didn't want docks storing chemicals crumbling into the Detroit River. Damn those Detroiters who expected the refinery to follow through on its' jobs promise when getting tax breaks.

Apparently asking these companies to follow through on promises and to not cut corners that hurt the environment and people that live in the neighboring communities means we're anti-business. Be a good neighbor and corporate citizen and there are no issues. People of your ilk though think we should be grateful to have anyone here that provides a job and just have to deal with the consequences of them trying to maximize profits at the cost to things that make a place worth living.

Sure your life expectancy is 10 years lower than the average due to the pollution you life by but you should be grateful to have a job!

[canuck]

How much time you spend on the ocean ? It’s easy to tell you the sea levels are rising because of climate change causing the ice pack to melt too fast.

You will believe it or not,it would not matter because it fits your narrative.

You guys must read or watch all of these news sources that you accuse others of,how else would you know the content in order to use it against others?

Sorry that is that sheep part where because you have the inability to think for yourself you have to follow the scripts.

The sea levels are controlled by the gravitational pull between the earth and the moon as the earth rotates as it gets closer to the moon it causes the seabed to bulge which increases tide levels.

Its not that complicated,NOAA has millions of sensors all across the ocean that tracks it 24/7 365.

Its the educated that are actually the un educated,if you were actually interested in the subject you would do a little research on your own,but you are not,you are just being a good little boy and following the narrative because it is easy,you really have to do anything,just parroting.

You prolly confounded astrology with astronomy. But, I’ll put it down to Weguys’ fault again, Youguy. Lol

[Richard]

You prolly confounded astrology with astronomy. But, I’ll put it down to Weguys’ fault again, Youguy. Lol

Lol,you keep desperately trying to flip it on me personally,keep practicing your baaaaaaa in front of the mirror.

[Richard]

What I love about this is that in your brain the United States and Detroit lost its' industry due to environmentalists and not corporations going where they could exploit labor more and to places that offered ridiculous tax incentives. Damn those Detroiters who wanted cleaner air and companies to follow EPA rules. Damn those Detroiters who didn't want docks storing chemicals crumbling into the Detroit River. Damn those Detroiters who expected the refinery to follow through on its' jobs promise when getting tax breaks.

Apparently asking these companies to follow through on promises and to not cut corners that hurt the environment and people that live in the neighboring communities means we're anti-business. Be a good neighbor and corporate citizen and there are no issues. People of your ilk though think we should be grateful to have anyone here that provides a job and just have to deal with the consequences of them trying to maximize profits at the cost to things that make a place worth living.

Sure your life expectancy is 10 years lower than the average due to the pollution you life by but you should be grateful to have a job!

Actually that would be your low self esteem interpretation of what I posted.

Do you honestly believe the citizens of Detroit care more about pollution levels then the citizens of where the steel mill moved to?

Did you interview the 1500 workers that lost their jobs in the process,or you figured it was your place to decide for them in their best interests?

My ilk ? You have a history of expecting no consequences for your actions,in your mind it was a dirty steel mill it had to go,you never took the time to weigh it all out in order to make an informed decision.

People living in the street seem to have little concern about pollution and their life span is not exactly stellar.

How come you have zero issues with the clothes in your back or the computer you are useing was created by causing unregulated pollution and child labor that decreased their life span,you did not solve anything,you just moved from your back yard in order to make yourself feel better.

It does not give you the higher moral ground to be calling others Ilk.

And you actually went out of your way in the bigger picture in order to increase pollution levels,because outside of the steel mill,everything else is now being produced in an unregulated environment.

If you really want to do something,decrease your needs and stop purchasing items that are created while causing pollution in the process,but my guess is that would be inconvenient for you personally so you are really not as concerned as you try and lead others to believe.

[canuck]

Lol,you keep desperately trying to flip it on me personally,keep practicing your baaaaaaa in front of the mirror.

It’s nothing personal, I just hate when words and meanings are abused, Youguy.

You keep referring to me and all the other mes as you guys, it presupposes I have no way of turning this into an ad hominem.


But I give you a good mark for keeping it brief this time.

[southen]

Actually that would be your low self esteem interpretation of what I posted.

Do you honestly believe the citizens of Detroit care more about pollution levels then the citizens of where the steel mill moved to?

Did you interview the 1500 workers that lost their jobs in the process,or you figured it was your place to decide for them in their best interests?

My ilk ? You have a history of expecting no consequences for your actions,in your mind it was a dirty steel mill it had to go,you never took the time to weigh it all out in order to make an informed decision.

People living in the street seem to have little concern about pollution and their life span is not exactly stellar.

How come you have zero issues with the clothes in your back or the computer you are useing was created by causing unregulated pollution and child labor that decreased their life span,you did not solve anything,you just moved from your back yard in order to make yourself feel better.

It does not give you the higher moral ground to be calling others Ilk.

And you actually went out of your way in the bigger picture in order to increase pollution levels,because outside of the steel mill,everything else is now being produced in an unregulated environment.

If you really want to do something,decrease your needs and stop purchasing items that are created while causing pollution in the process,but my guess is that would be inconvenient for you personally so you are really not as concerned as you try and lead others to believe.

Help me out here. What steel mill did I go on the record asking to leave? I actually gave you examples of industry failing to uphold its end of the bargain it made to residents but please educate me on where I said all industry needs to leave and which specific steel mill I wanted to move and take 1500 jobs. All you seem to do is make up scenarios and tell me how I reacted to said made up scenario.

On my end I fill up my gas tank maybe once a month because I bike and walk everywhere. I use canvas bags and I am fortunate that my co-op has a pretty robust recycling program. I also pay more through my energy provider to insure that the energy I use comes from renewable resources. I donate money and time through organizations like Greening of Detroit which helps to offset carbon by planting trees but none of those things really matter if you are just making shit up.

[canuck]

Help me out here. What steel mill did I go on the record asking to leave? I actually gave you examples of industry failing to uphold its end of the bargain it made to residents but please educate me on where I said all industry needs to leave and which specific steel mill I wanted to move and take 1500 jobs. All you seem to do is make up scenarios and tell me how I reacted to said made up scenario.

On my end I fill up my gas tank maybe once a month because I bike and walk everywhere. I use canvas bags and I am fortunate that my co-op has a pretty robust recycling program. I also pay more through my energy provider to insure that the energy I use comes from renewable resources. I donate money and time through organizations like Greening of Detroit which helps to offset carbon by planting trees but none of those things really matter if you are just making shit up.

I think you should filler up and start using your car more often, lest Detroit gets wiped out by a hurricane.

[Richard]

Help me out here. What steel mill did I go on the record asking to leave? I actually gave you examples of industry failing to uphold its end of the bargain it made to residents but please educate me on where I said all industry needs to leave and which specific steel mill I wanted to move and take 1500 jobs. All you seem to do is make up scenarios and tell me how I reacted to said made up scenario.

On my end I fill up my gas tank maybe once a month because I bike and walk everywhere. I use canvas bags and I am fortunate that my co-op has a pretty robust recycling program. I also pay more through my energy provider to insure that the energy I use comes from renewable resources. I donate money and time through organizations like Greening of Detroit which helps to offset carbon by planting trees but none of those things really matter if you are just making shit up.

So you have a dedicated power line,or does the power from non renewable sources step aside and let the renewable sources power flow by?

And your power company has isle A renewable and isle B non renewable?

Not saying you are making shit up,but how exactly do you even know what created the power coming out of your mains?

Stick your finger in the socket and if it comes out green it is renewable?

That whole statement in itself sounds sketchy,unless you have a dedicated green energy power plant and your own little special power line separate from everybody else’s,it sound like they saw you coming.

Have you ever followed your robust recycled products and saw where the end use was,and do you pay extra for the service?

Everywhere else in the country because of the costs less then 10% of stuff put in recycle bins are even recycled.That is not very robust.

It used to be higher but 5 years ago China stopped buying the only profitable recycled materials,which was cardboard.

So you recycled your cardboard,it was picked up by fossil fuel burning trucks,loaded on a ship,floated 11,000 miles burning tons of raw oil,then in port loaded on more fossil fuel trucks that take it to a factory powered by fossil fuel where it was recycled into a box,that was loaded back in a ship and sent back 11,000 miles again,all in the interest of saving the planet and being able to say I recycle.

Do you know what happens to all of the recycling in NYC ? It is loaded in fossil fuel burning trucks or barges where it is brought all the way down to Alabama and is buried in a big hole in the ground,how is that for a robust recycling program.

$100s of millions of dollars spent across the country on special fossil fuel burning trucks,to pick up special toxic plastic recycling bins,that are not even recyclable,in order so people can separate their trash from recyclables and feel good and it all ends up in the same place anyways.

The recycling rate for plastic in the U.S. is less then 9%,there is nothing robust about any of it.

Your argument that companies left for cheaper labor and more lax regulations is false.

EPA regulates industry pollution ,that is federal,the same rules apply in Detroit as they would anywhere else in the country.

Left for cheaper labor?

Everything is relevant,the COL difference between Alabama and Michigan is $100 per year.

They did not leave in search of cheaper labor,they left for the exact same reason residents complain,insane taxes.

You do not see the massive movement of companies leaving high tax states?

2019 alone Illinois lost 6 billion dollars from companies that left,and you have provided an answer why,it was the companies fault they left,do not even think about changing polices that create a more competitive arena or lowers the tax rate for residents,it’s the damn companies fault for leaving.

You cannot see that is not working out very well now that you have had a taste of both sides of the realm?

Companies and industry may be evil in your eyes and the root of all of your problems but how well does it work out when they leave?

When a million people leave and multiple companies leave,it stands to reason that the less humans you have the lower the impact you have on the environment,sure you have cleaner air then 20 years ago,all it took was to get rid of the people and mother nature returns.

Problem is,she does not pay taxes.

[canuck]

Lol.

So Alabama is a good example of a state that is in a transitional state; it accomodates other states as a dumping ground, but it also is becoming industrialized. Michigan has been at the forefront of labor unionizing especially in the Industrial, auto manufacturing sector, because of its long history of negotiating better conditions since it is the birthplace of the auto industry, or at least its biggest cradle.

When siht hits the fan in the future in the Southern so called right to work states, as far as working conditions go, the inevitable union organizing will occur. That is, if everything isn't totally machine made by then. I have nothing against getting rid of human resources to the max. I am looking forward to the day we are all drinking champagne out of recycled paper cups.

Boeing's HQ was lured to Chicago in spite of having little or no industrial output there, strictly on account of financial and tax incentive packages. The HQ is apparently a fraction of the administration components that are predominately located in the Greater Washington area. There is a growing rumor that tehy will move their head office to Northern Virginia in the near future, and they have not put out as much as the state of Illinois and the city of Chicago had expected of them, contractually speaking. But since Boeing is the Federally fed elephant in the room of American competitive advantage, they are less worried about compliance in local deals as they are in bloated contracts from the Pentagon's teat.


So much for high tax rate states, Richard…

[southen]

Yes Richard, I stick my finger in the socket. OR… it is a program offered through DTE and since Google is your only friend feel free to use it to look into it.

We are a country of crumbling infrastructure and in need of investment but you are going to blame the states that require companies pay taxes? It is a race to the bottom with companies showing that there is no loyalty when the tax breaks run up, they just move to the next state willing to bend over and take it in the rear.

[Jimaz]

... We are a country of crumbling infrastructure and in need of investment but you are going to blame the states that require companies pay taxes? It is a race to the bottom with companies showing that there is no loyalty when the tax breaks run up, they just move to the next state willing to bend over and take it in the rear.

That reminded me of The Mad Tea Party in Alice's Adventures in Wonderland. The March Hare, Mad Hatter and Dormouse were seated at one corner of a large table. They wanted clean dishes but no one could be bothered with washing the old ones. So instead they all moved down one setting as if they'd never run out.

Of course they would run out eventually — a lesson in sustainability from Lewis Carroll.

[Gistok]

Yes Richard, I stick my finger in the socket. OR… it is a program offered through DTE and since Google is your only friend feel free to use it to look into it.

We are a country of crumbling infrastructure and in need of investment but you are going to blame the states that require companies pay taxes? It is a race to the bottom with companies showing that there is no loyalty when the tax breaks run up, they just move to the next state willing to bend over and take it in the rear.

Yup... just look at Boeing and their $60 million 20 year tax break to move their HQ from Seattle to Chicago... it is now year 21, and Boeing is saying Sayanara to Chicago as they move to Virginia...

[southen]

Yup... just look at Boeing and their $60 million 20 year tax break to move their HQ from Seattle to Chicago... it is now year 21, and Boeing is saying Sayanara to Chicago as they move to Virginia...

Damn those environmentalists!!!!

[Richard]

Yes Richard, I stick my finger in the socket. OR… it is a program offered through DTE and since Google is your only friend feel free to use it to look into it.

We are a country of crumbling infrastructure and in need of investment but you are going to blame the states that require companies pay taxes? It is a race to the bottom with companies showing that there is no loyalty when the tax breaks run up, they just move to the next state willing to bend over and take it in the rear.

I hate to have to tell you this but any way you look at it,you are going to bend over and take it up the rear,you just have to decide if is is more comfortable driving a stripped down Pinto or a lush Cadillac afterwards.

That is the beauty of it all,you do not have to play the game,but you do suffer from the consequences.

Places like Detroit has decades long legacy costs that require high taxes so they have a higher starting point in negotiations where the majority of the southern factories are establishing in Virgin territory,they are not bending over taking it in the rear,they are just more hungry then you are.

What exactly are you gaining by not willing to bend over and take it up the rear?

Companies leaving or not establishing depriving more opportunities.

Increased taxes over a smaller population that has fewer opportunities so they leave and follow the departing companies.

You did not learn anything by watching the decline of Detroit?

You can stand there all day long and say good riddance,but in order to stand there,you still have to eat and pay your bills.

95% of the projects coming online in Detroit are doing so from tax capture,so it will be at least 5 years before their impact on the city becomes positive in actually decreasing the current tax obligations.

It is no different then if you were to subsidize a company,but you have had zero opposition against all of that.

And they are just putting a roof over somebody’s head,they are not pumping millions back into the Economy in the form of a payroll.

You are doing what you say you do not want to do,everyday of the week.

Do you understand how all of that actually works?

I did Google your GTE program
DTE electric customers receive a daily energy generation fuel mix that includes 15% renewable energy.

MIGreenPower appears to be the only program they have where you can pay extra per month for the privilege of thinking you are doing something to save the planet.

My question still stands,without a dedicated power line from DTE directly to your house,how do they separate the renewal energy that is going to you that you pay extra for,from your next door neighbor who may not be interested in it?

We already figured out you guys have special gas pumps that nobody else in the word has and now you want me to believe you have special smart electricity that flows through the lines and knows which house that pays extra for it versus the ones that do not?

I picture your electricity like people on a train,it flows through the lines,then when it gets to your house it says,my stop time to get off.

How do you send green energy down a power line and keep it from mixing with the nasty none green energy ?

All you are doing is paying extra per month so the power company can make more profits off of what they are charging you already.

Its a feel good tax without a happy ending.

At least my power company is honest - they flat out say there is a $35 a month charge,like it or not,for future green energy development that may or may not happen.

On top of the additional $25 per month in increased fuel costs,thanks to your poor decisions.

See I am a good guy,I am saving the planet,weather I want to or not.

Can I get a mounted otter for my trophy?

9 billion tons of discarded plastic ends up in the oceans alone every year ,not counting rivers and streams.

If you told me,Richard I have reduced my plastic usage footprint by 25%,then I would actually say,good job,outside of that,all good intentions aside,you are not really doing anything to save the planet.

[Richard]

Yup... just look at Boeing and their $60 million 20 year tax break to move their HQ from Seattle to Chicago... it is now year 21, and Boeing is saying Sayanara to Chicago as they move to Virginia...

You do not think because Virginia is for lovers and Chicago has turned into a unfettered crime wave has anything to do with it?

Lots of companies move to Virginia because it is closer to the lobby base that works in DC and lives in Virginia,along with a lot of defense contracts.

That is more of a strategic move verses a tax break aspect.

But I am thinking if you worked for one company that paid you $100k a year and had another offer you $500k a year you would say,no?

It’s kinda hard for the public to oppose tax breaks when they would not think twice about jumping ship for more money themselves.

[MikeM]

The independent investigative team released their final report yesterday. In another case of "I told you so", they reported that the extreme rain event was more than the system could handle and that with everything working as designed, surface flooding and basement backups would have still occurred.

To Honky Tonk, with love:

Assessment of ExtremeRainfall Events in 2021

XOXO

[Henry Whalley]

The independent investigative team released their final report yesterday.

How independent was it?

[MikeM]

How independent was it?

It wasn't GLWA or DWSD.

[Henry Whalley]

It wasn't GLWA or DWSD.

In a nutshell, does the report say don't live in Detroit until the sky no longer rains?