City of Detroit butting heads with blight-eating Brightmoor goats

**Honky Tonk** · June-10-14, 02:45 PM

Originally Posted by EastsideAl

Has anyone thought to ask the people still living in Brightmoor how they feel about the goats?

Baaaaaaaaaaahhhhh.....

**DetroitPlanner** · June-10-14, 03:20 PM

I was in Brightmoor yesterday and thought I saw an Old Goat. Turns out it was _________ .

**courtney** · June-10-14, 04:57 PM

Several years ago, I was talking with a neighbor/friend about possible alternatives to physical grass/weed mowing by the city and [[somewhat jokingly, at the time) said someone with a herd of goats near the city should start up a rental service and get a contract with the city, like they do in other places for kudzu/Japanese honeysuckle/multiflora rose control.

Very matter-of-factly, she stated that I'd never see it anywhere in Detroit because, as she put it, "most of the blacks are from the south". She knew I was from South Carolina [[and would love to go back to), so I was probably standing there, looking confused until she saw I wasn't "getting it". According to her, a large number of African-Americans with a southern ancestry will fight against anything agricultural - be it allowing/keeping traditional "farm" animals or actual "farming" because it reminded them too much of their ancestors being forced into sharecropping. She seemed to insinuate that it would even be a sore subject to even talk about allowing said animals into the area, no matter why they are there, the benefits, or who owned them.

I wish I'd not worried so much about making myself look like an ignorant ass and asked her more, and unfortunately her family have since moved out of state, but I've always wondered since then if that may have been part of it, at least for some. Obviously, it doesn't apply to everyone, but even if every person "in charge" didn't feel that way, I could see a hesitation to bring it up out of consideration for the feelings of those that do see it that way.

At any rate -

Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

Goats do have a tendency of wandering off and getting into peoples gardens. To some they are a nuisance. Therefore there probably are people opposed to goats.

Kind of like dogs allowed to wander if the owner isn't responsible enough to keep them contained? I know several people who have owned goats [[include one couple has a whole goat farm, now well known in their area for goat milk products) and not a single one has ever had one "wander off" or escape. If you're a responsible owner of ANY animal, it doesn't happen.

**JBMcB** · June-10-14, 05:36 PM

Originally Posted by ABetterDetroit

Gee maybe buying a commecial lawn mover and hiring a guy to run it all summer would actually be more help than hundreds of goats. I would have said thanks but no thanks as well and sent a message that if you ever get serious about solutions we are listening because we are still here fighting the fight.

Lots of cities are using goats:

1. Goats eat *everything* - small trees, noxious weeds [[including poison ivy) grass - you name it
2. Goats tear plants out by the roots - meaning you have to "mow" less often
3. Goats get in to nooks and crannies you'd have to hire an
other guy with a weed wacker to get.
4. Goats don't need gas or maintenance
5. Poop? Compost it and turn it into fertilizer

It's a good idea. It isn't costing the city anything. As far as ordinances go, it's a pretty benign infraction considering a fairly significant percentage of properties aren't being properly maintained, if at all. Cracking down on this one guy for this one ordinance seems a bit specious.

**douglasm** · June-10-14, 06:37 PM

I think something is being forgotten in this discussion. It's not the using of the goats to clean yards, it is the housing of the goats inside the city. I believe that's the legal issue here.

**Wesley Mouch** · June-10-14, 08:32 PM

Originally Posted by douglasm

I think something is being forgotten in this discussion. It's not the using of the goats to clean yards, it is the housing of the goats inside the city. I believe that's the legal issue here.

Your right. That is the issue.

But allow me to ask you... Do you think given Brightmoor's current situation, does it make sense to prohibit goats in this blighted area, assuming proper stewardship?

**Django** · June-10-14, 08:46 PM

Exactly, there is so much vacant land in Brightmoor I dont see any real problem. Someone is really going to bring this issue to a head? Go do something with a little more value like getting our street lights turned back on. Wasting court time for this issue in a city like ours is just unproductive.

**Django** · June-10-14, 08:48 PM

One of our favorite Detroit posters has a goad on his land, no problems except for the pitbull who got his ass handed to him by the goat.

**Django** · June-10-14, 09:03 PM

http://fineartamerica.com/featured/g...-ferretti.html is a link to one of The Ds favorite artists Jerome Feretti. It is a painting of the famous Nemo at the Goatyard Boatyard on the river. Nemo had an amazing story which can easily be found. In the end after all Nemo survived was attacked on the ice and killed by stray dogs. Jerome painted the piece for Nemo. If you can see there are dogs lurking in the Boatyard ready to kill. Nemo never caused a problem, well except for when he would jump up on someones car who Steven Hume didnt like. RIP Steve.

**mwilbert** · June-11-14, 03:39 PM

Originally Posted by courtney

Several years ago, I was talking with a neighbor/friend about possible alternatives to physical grass/weed mowing by the city and [[somewhat jokingly, at the time) said someone with a herd of goats near the city should start up a rental service and get a contract with the city, like they do in other places for kudzu/Japanese honeysuckle/multiflora rose control.

Very matter-of-factly, she stated that I'd never see it anywhere in Detroit because, as she put it, "most of the blacks are from the south". She knew I was from South Carolina [[and would love to go back to), so I was probably standing there, looking confused until she saw I wasn't "getting it". According to her, a large number of African-Americans with a southern ancestry will fight against anything agricultural - be it allowing/keeping traditional "farm" animals or actual "farming" because it reminded them too much of their ancestors being forced into sharecropping. She seemed to insinuate that it would even be a sore subject to even talk about allowing said animals into the area, no matter why they are there, the benefits, or who owned them.

I wish I'd not worried so much about making myself look like an ignorant ass and asked her more, and unfortunately her family have since moved out of state, but I've always wondered since then if that may have been part of it, at least for some. Obviously, it doesn't apply to everyone, but even if every person "in charge" didn't feel that way, I could see a hesitation to bring it up out of consideration for the feelings of those that do see it that way.

At any rate -

Kind of like dogs allowed to wander if the owner isn't responsible enough to keep them contained? I know several people who have owned goats [[include one couple has a whole goat farm, now well known in their area for goat milk products) and not a single one has ever had one "wander off" or escape. If you're a responsible owner of ANY animal, it doesn't happen.

The idea that responsible animal owners never have them escape is ridiculous. Depending upon the animal, there are any number of ways that they can escape that don't require negligence. Dogs escape all the time--they run through their invisible fences, or get spooked and knock down physical ones, even if you assume that no one [[including a child or a visitor) ever makes a mistake and doesn't latch a gate or fail to close a door securely. My dog knows how to open the doors if she really wants to, although generally she is coming in, not going out.

Goats are pretty alert and agile and can get away even if you are careful. My friend who keeps goats had a mass escape last winter when an overnight snowfall drifted high enough for them to get over the electric fence. I'm in favor of allowing goats in appropriate neighborhoods, but not because I think they will never get away.

**Wesley Mouch** · June-11-14, 04:33 PM

Originally Posted by mwilbert

The idea that responsible animal owners never have them escape is ridiculous. ...snip...

In a city with packs of wild dogs, a few loose goats will be OK.

**douglasm** · June-11-14, 07:41 PM

Wesley......
......keep in mind that I'm a city councilperson in a small rural Washington town, but no it doesn't, as long as ordinances are adapted to allow for such usage.

GUSHI · June-11-14, 08:53 PM

Nature is reclaiming Detroit.

**Django** · June-12-14, 12:03 AM

Goats on the loose, what will Detroit have to deal with next

**Wesley Mouch** · June-12-14, 08:56 AM

Originally Posted by GUSHI

Nature is reclaiming Detroit.

We thought we were going to get a polluted wasteland. Instead we're going to get an agricultural paradise.

**Chloe** · June-12-14, 05:49 PM

Reading this thread reminded me of a story my sister told me about my grandmother keeping Chinese fighting geese in her Brightmoor yard in the early 1950's. Apparently codes were not enforced then either! Anyway, my grandparents home was on three city lots [[house in middle, 2 vacant lots on either side), with a fence around the entire parcel, and being a former farm girl, my grandmother thought it was a good idea. Apparently there was an aggressive male goose among the bunch, who would attack anyone who tried to get beyond the fence. Also he would "bark" at passing cars. My sister said they would run every time they saw him. One Saturday, my Dad took my two sisters over for a visit, and the geese were in the back, so no attack. My sister said she looked out the kitchen window, and the big guy was missing! She asked my grandmother where he was, and she replied that she took him out, because he "goosed" her while she was putting out laundry. Right on the spot, she snapped his neck, and he became Sunday dinner!

**Jimaz** · June-12-14, 06:35 PM

Originally Posted by Chloe

....Right on the spot, she snapped his neck, and he became Sunday dinner!

Don't mess with Granny.

I had a similar problem with a gander at a park. I didn't break his neck but I grabbed him by the neck and held him behind a bench while everyone else escaped. They're pretty helpless in that position. They can't bite if you grab them in the right spot.

**Honky Tonk** · June-12-14, 09:09 PM

Originally Posted by Jimaz

Don't mess with Granny.

I had a similar problem with a gander at a park. I didn't break his neck but I grabbed him by the neck and held him behind a bench while everyone else escaped. They're pretty helpless in that position. They can't bite if you grab them in the right spot.

What a bunch of tough guys, fighting geese. Why don't you fight a real bird, a SWAN! HOLY CRAP! One went after a lady friend's sandwich, in a park. I was going to be a hero and shoo him away. B\S, he came after me with a vengeance! Than, to make matters worse, his mate came out of the water to his defense! I was being pecked to death, and it hurt. My friend ran a few yards, brown bag and all, turned around laughing and started yelling "you can take 'em!" Yeah, Thanx. Some guy's walking with his kids and the girl asks "Daddy, what's that man DOING?" The guy starts yelling @ me "Hey, leave those swans alone...." Trust me, just give 'em the sammich..

**Chloe** · June-13-14, 01:45 PM

My dad also told me that the reason my grandparents had "amassed" the three lots was because the original developer, BF Taylor encouraged home purchasers to do so. The theory was as ones fortunes changed due to work in the automotive factory, you could improve/ expand the home. The original house consisted of two bedrooms, a kitchen, and a living room. Restroom facilities were out back!. All under 600 square feet, with my grandparents occupying the home with their five boys.

During the war, my grandparents fortune improved. The house was expanded to three bedrooms, new kitchen/ bath addition, a basement, and a screened front porch. This is the incarnation of the house I remember visiting in the 1970's growing up. [[My oldest sister was almost 20 years older then me). When my grandmother died in 1980, the house was sold, and became the inevitable rental. It remained unchanged for the duration of the 1980's until a tenant engaged in nefarious activities moved in. The house was firebombed, and burned to the ground in 1992. The north end of the lot had a huge oak tree in the middle, and that tree still stands today. Miraculously, the north end of the fence is still standing as well!