Freep: It's time for Gov. Snyder to appoint an emergency manager for Detroit

[Hypestyles]

to what extent does the revised city charter help or hinder the restructuring process?

[esteban]

Why does she need to inject racism in every evaluation ?..

Perhaps she imagines that Detroit's decades-long strangulation is not mere coincidence?

[iheartthed]

I don't think anyone, anywhere, ever claimed that Detroit should "make a profit". I believe the goal and the expectation is that it should not spend more on services and debt obligations than it brings in. I think that is all anyone expects from government. If a government entity is making a profit, it's taxing its citizens too much.

You already can't get a cop, a firetruck or an ambulance should you need one in Detroit. What exactly should Detroit starve itself of in order to balance the budget?

At least if Detroit were a corporation it would have the option of going out of business. However, since Detroit is a city and not a business, it still has the job of maintaining a civilization even if it does not have the money to do so.

[drjeff]

Perhaps she imagines that Detroit's decades-long strangulation is not mere coincidence?

And if she were paying her property taxes, the city would have a few more thousand dollars. She is absolute scum.

[Novine]

"Wow! Long term debt of $14 Billion with a “B”"

This number again. A good portion of that is the debt owed by the water and sewer department. That's a debt owed by the system and all of the ratepayers in the city and suburbs, not the city. Another big piece is retiree health care obligations. The city has no legal obligations to pay that. Those two numbers account for 12 of the 15 billion dollars. Remove those from the equation and you'll find that the actual city debt obligation is in the 3 billion range.

To the pension question, the city is legally obligated to pay those. Pensions are a form of deferred compensation. If you get a pension, it represents salary that you gave up in exchange for future compensation. The city's pension funds are in pretty good shape compared to what you see in other communities. I'm not sure why nain rouge is so intent on tearing those away from people who earned them. The pensions aren't what's keeping the city from providing services.

[313WX]

"Wow! Long term debt of $14 Billion with a “B”"

This number again. A good portion of that is the debt owed by the water and sewer department. That's a debt owed by the system and all of the ratepayers in the city and suburbs, not the city. Another big piece is retiree health care obligations. The city has no legal obligations to pay that. Those two numbers account for 12 of the 14 billion dollars. Remove those from the equation and you'll find that the actual city debt obligation is in the 3 billion range.

To the pension question, the city is legally obligated to pay those. Pensions are a form of deferred compensation. If you get a pension, it represents salary that you gave up in exchange for future compensation. The city's pension funds are in pretty good shape compared to what you see in other communities. I'm not sure why nain rouge is so intent on tearing those away from people who earned them. The pensions aren't what's keeping the city from providing services.

Detroit paid out $597 Million Dollars in debt service in the last fiscal year.

How much of a difference do you think it would make if even 25% of that money went to public safety?

And the pensioners best not get too cocky. If services are cut any more, Detroit won't have any taxpayers left to fund their pensions.

[bailey]

You already can't get a cop, a firetruck or an ambulance should you need one in Detroit. What exactly should Detroit starve itself of in order to balance the budget?

Well, again, I understand there is limited money to fund operations, but is it a product of a lack of money or is a function of piss poor management? I mean with DPD are we sure it's not the revolving door of Chiefs, the re-orgs of the re-org, the thousand uniformed officers sitting behind desks, blowing money on a new HQ...etc. that is the problem? No amount of money can solve stupid.

I'd like to understand how almost a half a billion dollars a year is not enough to run a competent department.

At least if Detroit were a corporation it would have the option of going out of business. However, since Detroit is a city and not a business, it still has the job of maintaining a civilization even if it does not have the money to do so

Detroit is a "too big to fail" business. Just like when GM failed, the govt stepped in- same here. The State is going to step in and deal with it. That may end in bankruptcy or it may not.

[Wesley Mouch]

You already can't get a cop, a firetruck or an ambulance should you need one in Detroit. What exactly should Detroit starve itself of in order to balance the budget?

At least if Detroit were a corporation it would have the option of going out of business. However, since Detroit is a city and not a business, it still has the job of maintaining a civilization even if it does not have the money to do so.

I don't see the job of maintaining civilization as being entirely on the back of the City of Detroit.

I believe that if cities can't fail, they become corrupt and self-serving.

So let the city fail, and let the County, State, or Feds come in and do civilization maintenance. And let them create a new local municipality.

Holding onto an abusive spouse isn't healthy.

[Novine]

"Detroit paid out $597 Million Dollars in debt service in the last fiscal year.

How much of a difference do you think it would make if even 25% of that money went to public safety?"

How much of that could have actually gone to public safety? If most of those payments are in the water and sewer department, the answer is almost none of it.

[Danny]

I can't wait for Romulus Augustulus [[ DAVE BING) to surrender the laurel reef crown [[ The City of Detroit Seal) to Odoacer, the German King. [[ EMERGENCY FINANCIAL MANAGER).

The end of Black control of Detroit is coming within 30 days.

R.I.P. Black Detroit 1975 to 2013

[Wesley Mouch]

I can't wait for Romulus Augustulus [[ DAVE BING) to surrender the laurel reef crown [[ The City of Detroit Seal) to Odoacer, the German King. [[ EMERGENCY FINANCIAL MANAGER).

The end of Black control of Detroit is coming within 30 days.

R.I.P. Black Detroit 1975 to 2013

Control will end only if the elected leaders absolve themselves of responsibility due to EFM. If they instead embrace the reform process, they can be true leaders and extend the reign of 'black control' you lament.

I really do hope that some leadership emerges here.

[Honky Tonk]

Am just reading on the freep press about Councils reaction to the report and its the typical rhetoric about finding other means,,[[ there are none), and the oh so tiring rant of Joanne Watson and how the report is "Anti black" . Why does she need to inject racism in every evaluation ?.. She is the biggest racist I see on that council. She may have gotten away with the silliness before but her day has come,, The fact is the financial situation is a total mess, there is no city solution and its time to get this debacle straightened out..She takes absolutely no responsibility for contributing to this mess.. .The color crap is just plain ludicrous. Most of us are just plain tired of it all.

Amen. Could you post a link to the article? Thanx.

[Danny]

Detroit City Councilman Anton Spivey on Detroit's possible EFM or bankruptcy:

" I don't want to hear about it. I don't want to talk about it."


Detroit Mayor Dave Bing on Detroit's possible EFM or bankruptcy:

"I'm greatly sorry that the citizens of Detroit are not getting the services they need. If Gov. Snyder appoints a EFM or go into bankruptcy. I would work along with them or this person until the end of my term."

Governor Rick Snyder on Detroit's possible EFM or bankruptcy:

" I applaud to the financial review board for looking over Detroit's terrible financial situation. I will look their paperwork and make my decision in a given day and time."

[Honky Tonk]

You already can't get a cop, a firetruck or an ambulance should you need one in Detroit. What exactly should Detroit starve itself of in order to balance the budget?

At least if Detroit were a corporation it would have the option of going out of business. However, since Detroit is a city and not a business, it still has the job of maintaining a civilization even if it does not have the money to do so.

iheartted, I don't think you're getting it. "Starving Detroit more" isn't the point here. The point is money is being wasted on BS instead of being applied where it's needed. That's the point of the "business" analogy. Can you imagine buying a new vehicle, [[cup of coffee, pair of jeans, etc.) and having the vehicle be a complete POS, then reading where the manufacturer is building a new multi-million dollar headquarters to show off their company? That's why Detroit is running out of "customers". They're all moving to "stores" where they're getting a good product for their money.

[Honky Tonk]

I can't wait for Romulus Augustulus [[ DAVE BING) to surrender the laurel reef crown [[ The City of Detroit Seal) to Odoacer, the German King. [[ EMERGENCY FINANCIAL MANAGER).

The end of Black control of Detroit is coming within 30 days.

R.I.P. Black Detroit 1975 to 2013

Danny, I take exception to your post. I work in an environment that has "black" mangers, and lots of them, male and female, that I answer to. They are totally competent in their job positions. Skin color has nothing to do with competence.

[Packman41]

"Wow! Long term debt of $14 Billion with a “B”"

This number again. A good portion of that is the debt owed by the water and sewer department. That's a debt owed by the system and all of the ratepayers in the city and suburbs, not the city. Another big piece is retiree health care obligations. The city has no legal obligations to pay that.

To the pension question, the city is legally obligated to pay those. Pensions are a form of deferred compensation. If you get a pension, it represents salary that you gave up in exchange for future compensation. The city's pension funds are in pretty good shape compared to what you see in other communities.

Response to first paragraph:
Agreed, the retiree health care obligations are NOT protected, so that could be eliminated immediately. That would reduce the long-term debt by $5.7 Billion.


Response to second paragraph:
In theory this is true also, but only if the CofD has the money. And I question if the pension funds are in good shape as you claim. I read were Andy Dillon was on the radio this morning and said the two pension funds were only 47% and 60% funded.

Are you aware that a judge presiding over the bankruptcy of Stockton, CA ruled that that "vested benefits" are a contractual obligation, and that one of the purposes of bankruptcy is to adjust contractual obligations. The judge's opinion suggests that just because a benefit is "vested" does not mean it is untouchable in bankruptcy.

[Packman41]

Amen. Could you post a link to the article? Thanx.

Here you go:
http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...O01/302200398/

The portion with JoAnn Watson’s comments:

Councilwoman JoAnn Watson told her colleagues "we need a different mind set."

"We've got to say it with one voice, 'no,'" she told council members on Wednesday, in reference to an emergency manager. "EMs don't solve problems. Citizens in this state overwhelming repealed EM. This is nothing but a voter take away. We have to take a stand."

Watson called the potential takeover a "right-wing agenda" that's "anti-union" and "anti-black."

"We shouldn't go to the governor begging," she said. "We should be taking our stand, not waiting for our citizens to do it."

Watson also said the council should file a lawsuit challenging the EM law, calling it illegal.

[iheartthed]

iheartted, I don't think you're getting it. "Starving Detroit more" isn't the point here. The point is money is being wasted on BS instead of being applied where it's needed. That's the point of the "business" analogy. Can you imagine buying a new vehicle, [[cup of coffee, pair of jeans, etc.) and having the vehicle be a complete POS, then reading where the manufacturer is building a new multi-million dollar headquarters to show off their company? That's why Detroit is running out of "customers". They're all moving to "stores" where they're getting a good product for their money.

No, I don't think you're getting it. Customers are not the same as citizens. The most obvious difference between the two is that customers initiate the relationship at will, while citizens don't always have a choice.

[Hermod]

You already can't get a cop, a firetruck or an ambulance should you need one in Detroit. What exactly should Detroit starve itself of in order to balance the budget?

You get rid of every damn drone who isn't a beat cop, an in-station firefighter or EMT, or picks up the trash.

[townonenorth]

You get rid of every damn drone who isn't a beat cop, an in-station firefighter or EMT, or picks up the trash.

Add the outsourcing of trash services, and you may just be there.

[Hermod]

"Wow! Long term debt of $14 Billion with a “B”"

This number again. A good portion of that is the debt owed by the water and sewer department. That's a debt owed by the system and all of the ratepayers in the city and suburbs, not the city. Another big piece is retiree health care obligations. The city has no legal obligations to pay that. Those two numbers account for 12 of the 15 billion dollars. Remove those from the equation and you'll find that the actual city debt obligation is in the 3 billion range.

Maybe instead of taking over the city, the state should take over the DWSD complete with its bonded indebtedness [[mostly revenue bonds). Make DWSD the SEMWSD. Get some hard-ass in to purge the place of non-porductive employees and have a going concern slowly liquidating its indebtedness.

Then we could do the same with the bus system transferring it to the RTA. As a part of the legislation establishing the RTA, make all employees if DDOT compete for their jobs with the RTA.

That would leave the city with just its own bonded indebtedness [[mostly general obligation bonds), its pension, and its disfunctional employees.

[Honky Tonk]

No, I don't think you're getting it. Customers are not the same as citizens. The most obvious difference between the two is that customers initiate the relationship at will, while citizens don't always have a choice.

But they DO have a choice. That's why the City's population's so down. Because the citizen's HAVE excercised their right of choice. They've "abandoned" the City.

[Wesley Mouch]

You get rid of every damn drone who isn't a beat cop, an in-station firefighter or EMT, or picks up the trash.

But don't forget that you're elected officials of years ago agreed to these benefits on your behalf via our collective bargaining process. So you can only accomplish these goals if the union agreement so allows.

We all agree that waste needs to be eliminated -- but try getting elimination of these often dues-paying positions past the Union.

[Detroitnerd]

DETROIT’S PAIN OFFERS DG&H FAIR GAIN

DETROIT -- Some city bureaucrats are crying foul, saying that bondholders and banks are extorting money from the city and bringing on an emergency manager to engage in an orgy of privatization.

Not so says Tom McLeach, an executive for lending agency Dewey, Gottum & Howe.

McLeach says, “It’s really quite simple. We lent the city of Detroit several billion dollars’ worth of Law of Supply Equalization Rate [[LOSER) bonds. As part of our white-shoe services, we then felt they should really have a safety net of General Order Total Cost Hard Asset [[GOTCHA) bonds. As the city fell behind on those payments, we both agreed that they were contractually obligated to take on another $5 billion in Economic Network Stabilization Legacy Asset Value Engineering [[ENSLAVE) bonds as well. They’ve been terrific partners in this whole process, and we’d hate to see that relationship damaged.”

McLeach is heartened by the prospect of Lansing appointing an emergency manager to oversee a reorganization of the city’s finances, in part because the manager would ensure that, whatever the outcome of the process -- layoffs, pension cuts, privatization, rising crime and arson rates -- at least the bondholders will be paid first.

“After all,” McLeach says, “didn’t Dewey, Gottum & Howe take the risks? It’s only fair that the party taking the risks should be rewarded. And since these loans were so very risky, no reward is too high for our assistance.”

Asked if other factors play a role in saddling the largely minority city with such heavy debt, McLeach dismissed the idea as absurd.

“If only Detroit could pay off its ENSLAVE loans, it would be back on the path to independence -- or, perhaps, maybe even more lending. We still have some High Action High Abatement Ultimate Retention Financial Underwriting Cycle Knowledge Economy Debenture [[HAHAURFUCKED) bonds we could sell.”

If it could pay back the loans, even if it left the city in ruins, McLeach notes, then it might have the AAA bond rating enjoyed by Oakland County.

“Oakland County is the gold standard,” McLeach says. “They just finished paying back, ahead of schedule, their most recent Weak Hands Income Trust Equity Yield [[WHITEY) bonds.”

-30-

[iheartthed]

But they DO have a choice. That's why the City's population's so down. Because the citizen's HAVE excercised their right of choice.

Do you think that every single citizen in the city of Detroit has the choice of living there or elsewhere?