Bing, Snyder back new plan for 3-mile light-rail line on Woodward

**canuck** · January-06-12, 08:15 PM

I think any initial circuit or route should extend further than the tree miles proposed in order to make a physical difference and a mindset for Detroit's future transit plans. How can you grab attention and make a marked improvement on such a small scale? But I am happy the project is not entirely derailed, so to speak...

I would be curious to see how fast and how far the initial implementation of streetcars went in Detroit's heyday.

When London opened its first underground line in 1863, it had a short line but then the city was smaller and the omnibus and horsedrawn vehicular traffic was horrendous for that stretch of London. So it made sense to improve on such a small scale, in Detroit's case however, there isnt the traffic problem to deal with and the ever dominating automotive transportation will supplant any scheme that is too timid. It will be seen and experienced as something that cant deliver the goods.

I wouldnt count the People Mover as a dead duck either if Detroit had a better integration of bus, rapid bus if need be, and streetrail. The demand for new transit measures is relentless, because cities are dealing with more congestion than ever, maybe not Detroit, but every other major city is.

I spent the week in Toronto and there was talk of a possible aerial tram a couple of weeks after Laval, a suburban city north of Montreal announced it had commissioned a feasability study in november to connect the metro stations and newer high density developments near the business core of the city.

http://www.thestar.com/news/transpor...ondola-transit

A look at what a possible aerial tram would look like in Laval;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jxRw1jd3a4

This commentary is about the short run monorail in Vegas that is now pretty much bankrupt because as the author suggests it didnt follow the strip and didnt allow for enough coverage;

http://www.vegasinc.com/news/2011/de...een-different/

**dtowncitylover** · January-06-12, 08:36 PM

As much as I am "happy" that the project is back on, I am as equally frustrated that it will not be to 8 Mile right now. However also, there have been plenty of times I was downtown and would have liked to go to the New Center without having to drive and visa versa. Yes, I could walk, but there's only so much daylight. So I'm wishy-washy about this.

I just don't understand how stupid our leaders are. All big cities are pretty much the same, when you build transit more people and more businesses will come. This is not some phenomenon that only happens in the hundreds [[perhaps thousands) of cities around the world I could list.

**royce** · January-06-12, 08:43 PM

On one hand I think this is a bunch of BS. Why promise something today when yesterday you said it would never work? However, on the other hand I'm glad to see the powers that be give light rail another shot. A part of me feels like, "Screw the suburbs. If they don't want to get behind light rail in their communities then let them be damned." Twenty to thirty years from now they'll be imploding anyway from so many issues, living there won't be desirable. The M-1 rail down Woodward, even if only to New Center, says to the rest of the world that Detroit is ready to enter the 21st century, eventhough we're a decade behind. Light rail compared to busses is good for the environment [[no poisonous fumes). Also, the ride is smoother [[no pot holes to hit), and you don't have to change tires on every car every six months [[no clogging up landfills with thousands of used tires).

Light rail on Woodward to New Center could do so much for both commericial and residential development that living near it could be cheaper than living in the suburbs. You could walk or use the light rail to get to grocery stores, movie theaters, sports arenas, bars/restaurants, and to work, if more companies move downtown.

Yeah, it's a pipe dream, but sometimes you got make a splash to get noticed. Light rail down Woodward to New Center won't cure all of Detroits's problems, but it'll make Detroit look cool, and sometimes looking cool can open up so many other possibilites. Keeping my fingers crossed.

**stasu1213** · January-06-12, 08:53 PM

This is the original project before the idea of making it regional. The rail line from Jefferson to the New Center area would had been up and running by now. This project is funded by private and some government funding without the city putting a lot of dole into it. I would be glad when something is done to Woodward from Temple to the New Center area. That portion is full of potholes and in badly need of repaving.

**Dexlin** · January-06-12, 09:26 PM

I see a sloppy copy editor got his crack at this. lol This is not a "new plan." This is, apparently, M1's old plan. Just a quibble, but an important one, I think.

BTW, while I was never the biggest fan on M1's plan, it has the potential to be expanded, particularly when you consider that the Woodward communities in Oakland County are still using their grant money to study the expansion of the line. In fact, they announced the continuation of using this money to study light rail even after Bing, LaHood & Co. announced the scrapping of of light rail, last month.

Not great news, but I'll take what I can get.

**brizee** · January-06-12, 10:25 PM

"People forget who voted me in office," Bing told The Detroit News in an interview. "The citizens voted me in office and I have to represent them.

"The business community is an important part of the city, [[but) I have to look out for the majority who live and work here. Woodward [[light rail) is not going to be the answer for the people with transportation needs. This is a better solution, without a doubt."

What happened to all this tough talk?

It sounds like biz leaders whipped it right out on Bing's table.

**Gistok** · January-06-12, 11:07 PM

Brizee... I agree... Bing really comes of as a doofus on this whole scenario. I like Carl Levin's comments...

Levin last month criticized the decision to bypass Detroit's planned light-rail line in favor of bus rapid transit."I think they ought to hold off until they hear from the group" of investors that raised $100 million for the project, the Detroit Democrat said. "Just for the mayor to kind of make a decision without involving them, it seems … is not the right way."

Something tells me that Peter, Roger, Dan and Mike made some phone calls to our senators...

Makes you wonder what the climate is now between Bing and the city's business elite now that he fumbled this one pretty bad.

The one bad thing I see in all this is that the line will likely NOT go down the middle of Woodward.... but we'll have to wait and see...

I'm curious to know if the line can make an "L" at Grand Blvd., and go past the Fisher Bldg. over to Henry Ford Hospital. Is that an option that still allows a line to eventually continue out Woodward in the future? Using train jargon.. can a "left point" be a viable option that goes thru New Center?

**softailrider** · January-06-12, 11:49 PM

Not sure what to make of this, the flip-flop by the mayor and governor is kind of strange. I'm positive the final chapter has not been written, there must be a bigger plan in the works.

**Dexlin** · January-07-12, 12:00 AM

I don't think so. I think it's pretty clear what happened, as it has been explained above. The organizations and companies that had poured years of effort and money into this ranging from M1 to Detroit TRU did a behnd-the-scenes push of massive proportion to at least resurrect part of the line. The only story, here, is what must the size and depth of the push have been against the elected officials have been? And I think it's pretty apparent that it was HUGE to get local, state, and federal officials to cry and uncle and begrudingly give the organizations another crack at a more limited plan.

I honestly don't think anything is in the works beyond that. The article in the Detroit News makes it clear that the GOP-led state legislature doesn't give an 'eff about helping Metro Detroit create the regional authority it needs, so there isn't anything beyond the immediate turnaround to M1's original plan.

**Hypestyles** · January-07-12, 12:32 AM

What does The Who sing... "We won't get fooled again"? Sigh.. In the next year, we'll see what actually manifests... or not...

**detroitbob** · January-07-12, 12:48 AM

Originally Posted by softailrider

Not sure what to make of this, the flip-flop by the mayor and governor is kind of strange. I'm positive the final chapter has not been written, there must be a bigger plan in the works.

Bing and the Nerd got taken to the woodshed...was interesting to see them try to make nice nice on the news tonight. Paron me, but they haven't learned not to fuck with the investor pool that has taken such a great interest in downtown and midtown...

**noenaim** · January-07-12, 01:09 AM

I don't know why so many seem be almost angry that this light rail will only go 3 miles. If this thing is ever built the trip from downtown to New Center seems like a great start. Unlike the People Mover at least this short rail system actually goes somewhere.

**Hypestyles** · January-07-12, 01:10 AM

next up: argument about ownership and management..

Ravine · January-07-12, 01:18 AM

Originally Posted by noenaim

I don't know why so many seem be almost angry that this light rail will only go 3 miles. If this thing is ever built the trip from downtown to New Center seems like a great start. Unlike the People Mover at least this short rail system actually goes somewhere.

Yeah. Three miles straight uptown, while most of the actual city-- y'know, the part that isn't currently fascinating-- continues to go straight to hell.

I couldn't care fucking less about this goddam rail-line.

**AGinthe313** · January-07-12, 02:18 AM

2:21 in the morning – Dave Bing just announced that Light Rail is off the table again.

**AGinthe313** · January-07-12, 02:20 AM

2:22 in the morning – Dave Bing changed his mind - M1 will move forward!

**Warrenite84** · January-07-12, 02:58 AM

Glad to see this project moving forward again. News of the BRT only plan had left me bitter at the Mayor and Govenor's short sightedness.

I had railed in the past about median over curbside and about preferring the Washington Blvd.-Congress-Larned loop. Although those preferences would be great, at this point I would be satisfied in seeing the LRT line from Downtown to New Center period. Who knows? Maybe its success will turn some of the sour-pusses to progress into its most ardent supporters.

**Dexlin** · January-07-12, 03:14 AM

Originally Posted by Hypestyles

next up: argument about ownership and management..

With the municipal entity having been taken out of the equation for the time being, if there is any argument, it'll be between the business execs that make up M1. It makes this thing a bit less complicated as they all seemed to have been on the same page. Now, they get to build their side-running tram exactly to their liking and specifications until they figure out how to pass operations off to an eventual public, regional entity.

**DetroitPlanner** · January-07-12, 09:39 AM

Hooray! WSU/Midtown hipsters are saved at the expense of the other 4.5 million that live in the region!

**Scottathew** · January-07-12, 09:45 AM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

The 3 mile proposal is idiotic. Run a full system out to 8 Mile, or do BRT. The trolley proposal has no merit, and I don't care if zillionaires will pay for the whole thing.

I agree. We need to go all in or nothing.

The only thing a 3-mile segment does is give the perception that light rail is very limited and not very useful. Just like the People Mover, making it small is just going to cause it to be a parking shuttle, and not a place to get people to and from work.

It's time for political leaders to be bold and get a system that takes you from Hart Plaza [[or RPTC) not just to M-102, but beyond, into at least Royal Oak.

**313WX** · January-07-12, 09:51 AM

Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

Hooray! WSU/Midtown hipsters are saved at the expense of the other 4.5 million that live in the region!

In case you're out of the loop, Detroit is shrinking...

4.5 Million People no longer live in Detroit's MSA.

**Zacha341** · January-07-12, 09:55 AM

Agreed. As I've said here before this is too much fiscal resources 'sunk' into a short linear transo option, serving too few people. And I would not park my car in any ascribed 'rail' parking to ride any rail until property theft and other crime is addressed. No way!

Originally Posted by Ravine

Yeah. Three miles straight uptown, while most of the actual city-- y'know, the part that isn't currently fascinating-- continues to go straight to hell.

I couldn't care fucking less about this goddam rail-line.

**Richard** · January-07-12, 10:06 AM

The political leaders for the most part really want not much to do with any rail type situation,LaHood is extremely pro rail light and heavy it took alot just to push the Detroit Chicago run ,mostly because of opposition from the state.So why was he used in a negative way when it comes to RBT?

Short term and long term ,a shorter light rail system has less carrying costs if everything goes south,if the suburbs wish to get on board they can by getting more involved which they should be doing anyways in the name of regionalism.

When Detroit was first started years ago I would bet the first paved road was big news even if it was only 6 blocks long , it goes back to perception and how others see Detroit as a progressive city it really does not matter if three years down the road it goes belly up, what does it say to the rest of the country that if Detroit can pull off rail in any form ?

When it comes down to shovels in the ground the clink of the shovel will be heard around the world because in these times when most cities are treading water Detroit is moving forward,right or wrong light rail is considered progressive .

SteveJ · January-07-12, 10:22 AM

If they build it and its clean, safe, and reliable it will be expanded. If within the first month, we hear about armed robberies on the train than it will be another people mover.