Occupy Detroit

[Mikeg]

Oh, the National Review said that? Could you post a more irrelevant link? Maybe follow it up with some Beck or the biggest ass of them all, Rush? Yeah, that will inform your friends.

Really really really. Of all the dumb links, this one is the cake-taker.

Typical - ignore the discomforting facts and change the subject by attacking the messenger.

Taking your approach to its logical conclusion, then the Occupy Detroit protest must be "really really really" irrelevant, since there currently isn't any reporting on OD at the supposedly "relevant" sites like The Nation, the Wire, HuffPo, etc.

[Detroitnerd]

GM and Chrysler got bailouts. Was that a good thing or a bad thing? Does that put auto workers in the 1%?

Don't conflate the bailout of the automakers [[billions) with the ongoing bailouts [[trillions more). That's a little myopic, considering the differences in the funding and the fact that making automobiles is a fundamentally creative business. You take raw materials and turn them into something people want. The investment banks have become fundamentally parasitic, destructive industries that engage in criminal acts to make money. The auto companies should have been rescued. That's good policy. The banks should have been prosecuted not "saved."

[j to the jeremy]

Typical - ignore the discomforting facts and change the subject by attacking the messenger.

Taking your approach to its logical conclusion, then the Occupy Detroit protest must be "really really really" irrelevant, since there currently isn't any reporting on OD at the supposedly "relevant" sites like The Nation, the Wire, HuffPo, etc.

Probably since there are hundreds of protests now, and more internationally. It makes sense that the only people who feel the need to talk about Occupy Detroit are those who wish to poke fun at it, since it's in a union town and it's not a huge protest at the moment. What's easier to write? A piece on the national scale of the movement, even as winter sets in, or a quick and dirty round of sh*t-talking about Rosa Parks getting robbed and DDOT running late, with little to no emphasis on anything the protesters have said? [[as Charlie Leduff did a couple days ago)

[j to the jeremy]

I'm also not surprised that no one has tried to defend CitiBank for having their own [[former) customers arrested. That'll get you some new accounts opened!

All this just makes me proud I've always been a member of a Credit Union. Does no one realize it's that simple to make a small change?

[Gistok]

im not a huge supporter of the occupy movement but have no problem with people closing up their BofA, Chase, Citibank accounts.... this is the real way to make change... although they don't give a rats ass about one account with $1,000 bucks, once a good majority of people close their accounts they will feel the pain...... I closed my BofA account before the occupy movement started, mainly because of the $5 fee they planned to charge and also because they refused to issue a credit for an overdraft on an already closed account... they were just going to charge me monthly until the balance was out of control.... I actually had to pay to close it.....

Goose, your story hit close to home.... my late mother [[passed away last year) had a BOA account... and my sister and I were on it. Well a similar situation happened with an account that just would not close. We too were surprised to learn that BOA would re-open a closed account if ANY transactions went against it. It took us months and months to finally close it.

[Gistok]

Occupy Detroit: Less Popular than Lions Tailgate Parties

Detroit, Grand Circus Park — They call themselves the 99 Percenters, but the Occupy Detroit movement looks a lot more like One Percent of America. If that.

At Sunday’s noon general-assembly meeting in Detroit’s Grand Circus Park, only 100 people showed up — fewer than the 500 who attended Friday’s kickoff and well short of the thousands anticipated by organizers and their mainstream-media cheerleaders. In a metro area of 4 million people, this isn’t a movement so much as a gathering of the local hemp club.

With 60,000 Lions fans streaming through Grand Circus Park on the way to Ford Field [[cue “evil corporation” chant), the protesters and their small tent city were a sideshow. There were tailgate parties bigger than this..............

LMAO Miikeg.... is that the best article that you could find? Talk about scrapping the bottom of the barrel...

No wait... I tell a lie... your history professor... Glen Beck was mentioned farther down on that page...
"Glenn Beck is warning everyone that the protestors will drag you out of your homes and kill you..."

Thanks for the laugh though...

[JBMcB]

Don't conflate the bailout of the automakers [[billions) with the ongoing bailouts [[trillions more).

The UAW retiree benefit trust was given 40% ownership in the new GM for it's $17 billion in debt. The bondholders got a paltry 10% ownership for their $27 billion in debt. The *secured* bondholders in the Chrysler deal got $0.29 on the dollar, while the *unsecured* union-granted bonds were given $0.40 on the dollar.

This is a *highly* unusual situation for a bankruptcy, given that, by law, debtors are given preference over claims by employee benefit programs, and secured lenders are given preference over unsecured lenders. The unions got a *huge* favor from the administration, any way you slice it. Crap, screwing over the secured bondholders actually hurt other unions who held those bonds in their pension plans, but I guess the UAW is more important than the lowly Indiana state teacher's union.

[Detroitnerd]

The UAW retiree benefit trust was given 40% ownership in the new GM for it's $17 billion in debt. The bondholders got a paltry 10% ownership for their $27 billion in debt. The *secured* bondholders in the Chrysler deal got $0.29 on the dollar, while the *unsecured* union-granted bonds were given $0.40 on the dollar.

This is a *highly* unusual situation for a bankruptcy, given that, by law, debtors are given preference over claims by employee benefit programs, and secured lenders are given preference over unsecured lenders. The unions got a *huge* favor from the administration, any way you slice it. Crap, screwing over the secured bondholders actually hurt other unions who held those bonds in their pension plans, but I guess the UAW is more important than the lowly Indiana state teacher's union.

I am not familiar with your statistics. I see no source provided. I suppose, though, if it were the workers who felt "screwed" it wouldn't be a big concern for you? I mean, who cares about people who worked their whole lives. We need to reward speculators...

[JBMcB]

I am not familiar with your statistics. I see no source provided.

I'm shocked, the figures were in just about every article on the subject:

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/200...ders-revealed/

http://marketpipeline.blogspot.com/2...-to-blink.html

I suppose, though, if it were the workers who felt "screwed" it wouldn't be a big concern for you? I mean, who cares about people who worked their whole lives. We need to reward speculators...

It's not a matter of concern for the affected. I'm saying the administration is doling out political favors in the auto industry, the same as it's doing in the financial sector.

When, in the history of bankruptcy jurisprudence, have unsecured debtors been given preference over secured debtors? That's the whole point of *secured* debt. If the UAW pension fund wanted to they could have dumped their unsecured bonds and bought the secured instruments, just like dozens of other pension and hedge funds. They pay out less but are safer in the event of a bankruptcy - at least that's how the law is written [[secured lenders come first, employment benefit funds come 5th in line of unsecured lenders.) Apparently that's not the case anymore, as political clout trumps the rule of law these days.

[Detroitnerd]

I'm shocked, the figures were in just about every article on the subject:

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/200...ders-revealed/

http://marketpipeline.blogspot.com/2...-to-blink.html



It's not a matter of concern for the affected. I'm saying the administration is doling out political favors in the auto industry, the same as it's doing in the financial sector.

When, in the history of bankruptcy jurisprudence, have unsecured debtors been given preference over secured debtors? That's the whole point of *secured* debt. If the UAW pension fund wanted to they could have dumped their unsecured bonds and bought the secured instruments, just like dozens of other pension and hedge funds. They pay out less but are safer in the event of a bankruptcy - at least that's how the law is written [[secured lenders come first, employment benefit funds come 5th in line of unsecured lenders.) Apparently that's not the case anymore, as political clout trumps the rule of law these days.

Yeah, well, this is pretty far off topic and I suppose I don't care about this as much as you do. Thanks for sharing.

[noggin]

I am not familiar with your statistics. I see no source provided. I suppose, though, if it were the workers who felt "screwed" it wouldn't be a big concern for you? I mean, who cares about people who worked their whole lives. We need to reward speculators...

It appears to me that you consider bond holders as speculators. A bond is simply a certificate that pays interest to the owner. It is used to enable corporations to finance capital investment and to your amazement to sometimes pay employees at the same time. Most of the holders were just common folk, investment funds and retirement accounts for those same common folks. So your thinking it is better to pay off the unions who are partially responsible for the downfall of Chrysler and GM it to reap the rewards for their downfall.

[Detroitnerd]

So your thinking it is better to pay off the unions who are partially responsible for the downfall of Chrysler and GM it to reap the rewards for their downfall.

WARNING: Loaded question.

I suppose the management didn't sign those agreements with the UAW. Their holograms signed them. Or they had guns to their heads! It's all the fault of the unions!

Pffffttt ...

[JenniferL]

I was just on Facebook and saw an announcement that Occupy Detroit needs medical personnel to volunteer at one of their tents. Until now, my feelings about the Occupy movement were sort of neutral. But now they're pssing me me off! Those campers are already eating donated food and sleeping on donated blankets and now they want donated medical care??? If sleeping outdoors in October has given some of them the sniffles, why don't they just go home? I think it is downright shameful for those middle class people to accept freebies when the bottom one percent is a few blocks away in the Cass Corridor.

[Detroitnerd]

I was just on Facebook and saw an announcement that Occupy Detroit needs medical personnel to volunteer at one of their tents. Until now, my feelings about the Occupy movement were sort of neutral. But now they're pssing me me off! Those campers are already eating donated food and sleeping on donated blankets and now they want donated medical care??? If sleeping outdoors in October has given some of them the sniffles, why don't they just go home? I think it is downright shameful for those middle class people to accept freebies when the bottom one percent is a few blocks away in the Cass Corridor.

Part of the protest is envisioning what a real democratic society looks like. That would be one in which we, as the people, want the people to be cared for above all else. To say that they should not do this because other people need help too is borderline ridiculous. To complain about these have-somes not helping the have-nots is counterproductive when you consider the top 1 percent are the ones hosing us all.

Here's a thought: Maybe you weren't neutral to begin with?

[Jimaz]

It's a great relief to see people finally protesting the protesters. That indicates that the apathy tipping point has been crossed and that means the movement has entered "the genie is out of the bottle" stage—it can't be as easily put back.

The first week or so, no one noticed. Now it's noticed all over the world!

[Detroitnerd]

It's a great relief to see people finally protesting the protesters. That indicates that the apathy tipping point has been crossed and that means the movement has entered "the genie is out of the bottle" stage—it can't be as easily put back.

The first week or so, no one noticed. Now it's noticed all over the world!

What are you talking about?

[ThisIsForTheHeart]

The UAW needs to stop bailing out the Democrats with the UAW giving millions of dollars to those democrats who allow this change to happen.

[Detroitnerd]

You guys are hilarious. You're so focused on unions and the democrats that you can't see that the corrupt people running Wall Street and raping the American economy own BOTH parties. Yeah, go on. Get all excited about the unions. Jeez ...

[noggin]

WARNING: Loaded question.

I suppose the management didn't sign those agreements with the UAW. Their holograms signed them. Or they had guns to their heads! It's all the fault of the unions!

Pffffttt ...

In the real world greedy pigs get slaughtered. In Obama's bizzaro union world, pigs just get fatter.

[animatedmartian]

http://www.freep.com/article/20111017/NEWS01/111017034/Occupy-Detroit-protesters-say-they-ll-park-until-mid-December

[Detroitnerd]

In the real world greedy pigs get slaughtered. In Obama's bizzaro union world, pigs just get fatter.

Yeah, that doesn't make any sense. Anyway, what makes you think I like Obama?

What I see here is the same old knee-jerk partisan ranting, which means you must be confused, because it's you types that cheer on some bullshit when "your" guy does it and cry bloody murder when "their" guy does it.

Don't you get it? Neither of them are "your" guys. You are being fooled. You are part of the 99 percent and you're drawing water for the people who absolutely don't care about you...

[Jimaz]

What are you talking about?

It means the people protesting the protesters are afraid of what it will become. That's progress.

[Detroitnerd]

It means the people protesting the protesters are afraid of what it will become. That's progress.

They never change. Right up until the end in 1941, Harry Bennett was calling the UAW "terrorists." Right until they lose, they keep saying it's nothing, it's a ragtag bunch of losers who; for some reason, despite their total disorganization, could destroy our way of life.

But also beware the Democrats trying to come in and "lead" this movement...

[JenniferL]

Part of the protest is envisioning what a real democratic society looks like. That would be one in which we, as the people, want the people to be cared for above all else. To say that they should not do this because other people need help too is borderline ridiculous. To complain about these have-somes not helping the have-nots is counterproductive when you consider the top 1 percent are the ones hosing us all.

Here's a thought: Maybe you weren't neutral to begin with?

I was neutral enough that I considered going down there at one point. But the more I see and hear from the Occupy movement, the less I like it. The Tea Party had the exact same effect on me.

[Jimaz]

But also beware the Democrats trying to come in and "lead" this movement...

No doubt there. Yet this time the activists are passionately resisting having any leader. It seems to be a lack of confidence in the very concept of leadership itself. This may well turn out to be a unique moment in history.