Raining in Detroit - Expressways and Homes Flooded

[canuck]

Lol.

So Alabama is a good example of a state that is in a transitional state; it accomodates other states as a dumping ground, but it also is becoming industrialized. Michigan has been at the forefront of labor unionizing especially in the Industrial, auto manufacturing sector, because of its long history of negotiating better conditions since it is the birthplace of the auto industry, or at least its biggest cradle.

When siht hits the fan in the future in the Southern so called right to work states, as far as working conditions go, the inevitable union organizing will occur. That is, if everything isn't totally machine made by then. I have nothing against getting rid of human resources to the max. I am looking forward to the day we are all drinking champagne out of recycled paper cups.

Boeing's HQ was lured to Chicago in spite of having little or no industrial output there, strictly on account of financial and tax incentive packages. The HQ is apparently a fraction of the administration components that are predominately located in the Greater Washington area. There is a growing rumor that tehy will move their head office to Northern Virginia in the near future, and they have not put out as much as the state of Illinois and the city of Chicago had expected of them, contractually speaking. But since Boeing is the Federally fed elephant in the room of American competitive advantage, they are less worried about compliance in local deals as they are in bloated contracts from the Pentagon's teat.


So much for high tax rate states, Richard…

[southen]

Yes Richard, I stick my finger in the socket. OR… it is a program offered through DTE and since Google is your only friend feel free to use it to look into it.

We are a country of crumbling infrastructure and in need of investment but you are going to blame the states that require companies pay taxes? It is a race to the bottom with companies showing that there is no loyalty when the tax breaks run up, they just move to the next state willing to bend over and take it in the rear.

[Jimaz]

... We are a country of crumbling infrastructure and in need of investment but you are going to blame the states that require companies pay taxes? It is a race to the bottom with companies showing that there is no loyalty when the tax breaks run up, they just move to the next state willing to bend over and take it in the rear.

That reminded me of The Mad Tea Party in Alice's Adventures in Wonderland. The March Hare, Mad Hatter and Dormouse were seated at one corner of a large table. They wanted clean dishes but no one could be bothered with washing the old ones. So instead they all moved down one setting as if they'd never run out.

Of course they would run out eventually — a lesson in sustainability from Lewis Carroll.

[Gistok]

Yes Richard, I stick my finger in the socket. OR… it is a program offered through DTE and since Google is your only friend feel free to use it to look into it.

We are a country of crumbling infrastructure and in need of investment but you are going to blame the states that require companies pay taxes? It is a race to the bottom with companies showing that there is no loyalty when the tax breaks run up, they just move to the next state willing to bend over and take it in the rear.

Yup... just look at Boeing and their $60 million 20 year tax break to move their HQ from Seattle to Chicago... it is now year 21, and Boeing is saying Sayanara to Chicago as they move to Virginia...

[southen]

Yup... just look at Boeing and their $60 million 20 year tax break to move their HQ from Seattle to Chicago... it is now year 21, and Boeing is saying Sayanara to Chicago as they move to Virginia...

Damn those environmentalists!!!!

[Richard]

Yup... just look at Boeing and their $60 million 20 year tax break to move their HQ from Seattle to Chicago... it is now year 21, and Boeing is saying Sayanara to Chicago as they move to Virginia...

You do not think because Virginia is for lovers and Chicago has turned into a unfettered crime wave has anything to do with it?

Lots of companies move to Virginia because it is closer to the lobby base that works in DC and lives in Virginia,along with a lot of defense contracts.

That is more of a strategic move verses a tax break aspect.

But I am thinking if you worked for one company that paid you $100k a year and had another offer you $500k a year you would say,no?

It’s kinda hard for the public to oppose tax breaks when they would not think twice about jumping ship for more money themselves.

[Richard]

Yes Richard, I stick my finger in the socket. OR… it is a program offered through DTE and since Google is your only friend feel free to use it to look into it.

We are a country of crumbling infrastructure and in need of investment but you are going to blame the states that require companies pay taxes? It is a race to the bottom with companies showing that there is no loyalty when the tax breaks run up, they just move to the next state willing to bend over and take it in the rear.

I hate to have to tell you this but any way you look at it,you are going to bend over and take it up the rear,you just have to decide if is is more comfortable driving a stripped down Pinto or a lush Cadillac afterwards.

That is the beauty of it all,you do not have to play the game,but you do suffer from the consequences.

Places like Detroit has decades long legacy costs that require high taxes so they have a higher starting point in negotiations where the majority of the southern factories are establishing in Virgin territory,they are not bending over taking it in the rear,they are just more hungry then you are.

What exactly are you gaining by not willing to bend over and take it up the rear?

Companies leaving or not establishing depriving more opportunities.

Increased taxes over a smaller population that has fewer opportunities so they leave and follow the departing companies.

You did not learn anything by watching the decline of Detroit?

You can stand there all day long and say good riddance,but in order to stand there,you still have to eat and pay your bills.

95% of the projects coming online in Detroit are doing so from tax capture,so it will be at least 5 years before their impact on the city becomes positive in actually decreasing the current tax obligations.

It is no different then if you were to subsidize a company,but you have had zero opposition against all of that.

And they are just putting a roof over somebody’s head,they are not pumping millions back into the Economy in the form of a payroll.

You are doing what you say you do not want to do,everyday of the week.

Do you understand how all of that actually works?

I did Google your GTE program
DTE electric customers receive a daily energy generation fuel mix that includes 15% renewable energy.

MIGreenPower appears to be the only program they have where you can pay extra per month for the privilege of thinking you are doing something to save the planet.

My question still stands,without a dedicated power line from DTE directly to your house,how do they separate the renewal energy that is going to you that you pay extra for,from your next door neighbor who may not be interested in it?

We already figured out you guys have special gas pumps that nobody else in the word has and now you want me to believe you have special smart electricity that flows through the lines and knows which house that pays extra for it versus the ones that do not?

I picture your electricity like people on a train,it flows through the lines,then when it gets to your house it says,my stop time to get off.

How do you send green energy down a power line and keep it from mixing with the nasty none green energy ?

All you are doing is paying extra per month so the power company can make more profits off of what they are charging you already.

Its a feel good tax without a happy ending.

At least my power company is honest - they flat out say there is a $35 a month charge,like it or not,for future green energy development that may or may not happen.

On top of the additional $25 per month in increased fuel costs,thanks to your poor decisions.

See I am a good guy,I am saving the planet,weather I want to or not.

Can I get a mounted otter for my trophy?

9 billion tons of discarded plastic ends up in the oceans alone every year ,not counting rivers and streams.

If you told me,Richard I have reduced my plastic usage footprint by 25%,then I would actually say,good job,outside of that,all good intentions aside,you are not really doing anything to save the planet.

[MikeM]

The independent investigative team released their final report yesterday. In another case of "I told you so", they reported that the extreme rain event was more than the system could handle and that with everything working as designed, surface flooding and basement backups would have still occurred.

To Honky Tonk, with love:

Assessment of ExtremeRainfall Events in 2021

XOXO

[Henry Whalley]

The independent investigative team released their final report yesterday.

How independent was it?

[MikeM]

How independent was it?

It wasn't GLWA or DWSD.

[Henry Whalley]

It wasn't GLWA or DWSD.

In a nutshell, does the report say don't live in Detroit until the sky no longer rains?

[MikeM]

In a nutshell, does the report say don't live in Detroit until the sky no longer rains?

Basically, yes.

Don't store valuables in your basement when the forecast calls for rainfall in excess of 2"/hour.

[Honky Tonk]

The independent investigative team released their final report yesterday. In another case of "I told you so", they reported that the extreme rain event was more than the system could handle and that with everything working as designed, surface flooding and basement backups would have still occurred.

To Honky Tonk, with love:

Assessment of ExtremeRainfall Events in 2021

XOXO

Thank you poopsie. Here is an analysis of the report by rocket scientists smarter than I.

https://www.freep.com/story/news/loc...es/7694820001/

[preserve]

So, claims will be denied?

[Henry Whalley]

So, claims will be denied?

That's my understanding. Plaintiffs' attorneys say the report wasn't independent. It cost $3-4 million, and they want a second opinion.

[MikeM]

So, claims will be denied?

I doubt it, as the law is never as logical as you would like to believe.

[Dumpling]

MikeM, I appreciate your link to the 800 page AECOM report. I've bookmarked it but haven't had a chance to read the 800 pages yet.

The other day someone posted a flyer on my front door regarding counseling resources for those who were traumatized by the flooding a year ago.

In a separate incident involving financial trauma a few weeks ago, someone came to me with a neighbor's utility bill that had skyrocketed in one month. The reported usage had gone up though the neighbor had not increased their usage that they were aware of. There was clearly some leak that they were unaware of during that month of high usage.

I had to let them know that DWSD would likely consider this to be nonrefundable usage and would seek to be paid for a water bill hundreds of dollars higher than the expected bill.

DWSD/GLWA probably could install some kind of a high rate of use alarm on the residential water meters going forward. Is this something that you can advise on?

[MikeM]

Great Lakes Water Authority denying all claims related to flooding in summer of 2021

According to a press release from GLWA, they say an independent investigation found that a “heavy and historic rainfall caused basement and surface flooding on June 25/26, not a defect in the regional collection system.”

GLWA defends the decision citing Michigan’s Governmental Liability for Negligence Act and saying that even if everything in the regional system worked ideally, the June event still would have caused basement backups and surface flooding within GLWA’s system, "or any other collection system designed to today’s standard."

[kuuma]

Great Lakes Water Authority denying all claims related to flooding in summer of 2021

they literally said it's not their fault that their infrastructure couldn't handle the elements. it's a preview of the next 50 years, as more systems fail due to increasingly extreme climate events.

they'll just keep saying "it was historic" or "it was a rare exception" and they're "working to build system resiliency" while individuals get stiffed with the costs and damages. dangerous precedent, but who really is surprised.

[Gistok]

^Well people will have to take some measures into their own hands, such as don't have carpeting in the basement, and keep all valuables at least a foot off the floor. Living in St. Clair Shores, I've always practiced that, because until they built the 10 Mile/Jefferson pumping station, my neighborhood had occasional basement flooding.

Also, if you move to another area, be selective in where you move to. Do your homework in the drainage situation in your area. For example... here in the Shores, I would never buy a house south of 9 Mile Rd. All houses north of there go into the Chapaton Pumping Station, where excessive overflow is chlorinated and then discharged directly into the lake during more frequent "storms of the century"... we had no problem in the 2014 storm nor the storms of last year. Far from an ideal situation, since it puts treated sewage directly into the lakes, but it does keep your home drier.

People just have to look at more than just the school system in determining where you should live...

[MikeM]

They have to go with that position. Paying claims would be an admission of failure or guilt.

[Jimaz]

"or any other collection system designed to today’s standard."

Is it time to reevaluate the situation for tomorrow's standard?

[softailrider]

It’s really terrible, even in a 600 square foot bungalow if you lose your finished basement along with your personal property you can easily have 100,000.00 loss. I would agree don’t put a lot of money in your basement but some people need the space. I think the attorneys are going to busy with this.

[Ray1936]

Not meaning to threadjack, but reading all the above brings back memories of flooded basements in metro Detroit. Went through that twice in years long gone. Makes me happy to be living in the desert where homes have no basements to start with. Just sayin'.

[Richard]

Don’t need no stinken basement anyways,people are not using sump pumps?

Interesting how the very shelters we build to protect ourselves from the elements,are subjective to those very same elements,while reminding us of joys of homeownership.

Like in Fl,fill in a swamp that Mother Nature decided was a good place to put one,build a bunch of $800k houses on it and wonder why they flood.

The early pictures of the Detroit region show a lot of bogs that later became housing,water flows, you cannot move it from somewhere and expect it to be happy.

Cities spend millions trying to figure out how to redirect water instead of recognizing its course and building around that.