US Customs jumpy

[Lowell]

All this discussion prompted me to go out and get an enhanced [[micro chipped) license this am. Since I've always had passport and brought it along the application only took five minutes and, tax lovers take note, $45.

Conclusion: if you do not have a passport that you can use now and wish to go to Canada and back tomorrow expect a 28 day wait at the border, so to speak, because that's when I was told I should expect to receive the new license.

If the task is as slow and expensive for Canadians metro Detroit can wave goodbye to millions of potential Ontario and Canadian customers of its stores, cultural, sports, gaming and other tourist attractions.

[Pam]

I haven't had a problem on my last 2 trips to Canada. I don't mind carrying a passport. It is easier than bringing a birth certificate or other docs.

[Sstashmoo]

Quote: "Can anyone show how these new rules offer any more security?"

They can't because they haven't. The borders are wide open, ask any of the thousands of illegals that walk in dam near everyday. Talk to any boater, that freely goes from US waters to Canadian waters, no way to enforce that. Read up on the rumrunners, losing battle. Trying to seal a border has failed all thoughout history. The Great wall, The Maginot line, The iron curtain, Israels wall, whatever they call it. All failures and have only prevented commerce and economic growth and further perpetuated and increased the ignorance and hatred of the masses on both sides of the device. Fortify relationships, not borders.

[Buy American]

We were driving up near Glacier National Park, going into Waterton Park in Canada. There was a little shack at the end of a residential street in Montana that was the U.S/Canadian border. The border guard inside the shack could raise and close the gate by hand. We could have gone down a couple of streets and crossed into Canada without passing that shack. Security for the crossing in some places is a joke.

[detmich]

Not trying to get all "factual" on you guys, but Europe's recent swing to a union of independent states that allow free passage without a passport is in fact based on the United States' system. We did it 200 years ago, and as far as killing each other and still leaving our borders open look to the Civil War. These arguments are all quite silly, childish on some level.

Would it be nice to not have any border restrictions between the US and Canada? Yes, it would. But the fact is the restrictions do exist. To claim that hundreds of millions are lost in revenue because of them seems overly broad and not well thought out. Since any business opening in the Detroit/Windsor area is fully aware of the border restrictions, their business model would have these factors built right in. If they do not, they will fail because they are a bad business. If they do, then they should succeed.

In addition, there may be many businesses that exist inthe Detroit/Windsor area specifically in response to the existing border regulations. If those regulations were gone tomorrow, so would those businesses and the jobs they provide. Perhaps resulting in a loss of revenue greater than any revenue generated. My point is that there is much more here than the simplistic arguments that have been thrown out both for and against the regulations. If anyone here knows of actual economic studies that have been performed, I would ask them to share that information. i would be willing to read them.

[SWMAP]

Stats canada just released a report that shows cross-border traffic between U.S. and Canada declined significantly June orver May 2009 [[new restrictions re documents enforced from June 1). No way is this good economic news for either Detroit or windsor region.
http://www.windsorstar.com/life/Cros...589/story.html

[detmich]

Stats canada just released a report that shows cross-border traffic between U.S. and Canada declined significantly June orver May 2009 [[new restrictions re documents enforced from June 1). No way is this good economic news for either Detroit or windsor region.
http://www.windsorstar.com/life/Cros...589/story.html

Shoot, maybe it has something to do with the ongoing war with Livonia? Who wants to visit a war zone? Has there been any progress in the peace talks in Geneva? All I am saying, is give peace a chance.

[Detroitnerd]

Weird. On the border crossing issue, it seems 90 percent of people on both sides hate the new security, don't feel it makes them any safer, and want it relaxed. As usual, 10 percent of the people feel the issue "needs more study." Even when most people hate it, for some reason, bullshit reigns.

[Sstashmoo]

Quote: "there may be many businesses that exist inthe Detroit/Windsor area specifically in response to the existing border regulations. If those regulations were gone tomorrow, so would those businesses and the jobs they provide."

What would those jobs be?

Quote: "there is much more here than the simplistic arguments that have been thrown out"

I think the above could be categorized as the most simplistic.

[Sstashmoo]

Quote: "Weird. On the border crossing issue, it seems 90 percent of people on both sides hate the new security, don't feel it makes them any safer, and want it relaxed. As usual, 10 percent of the people feel the issue "needs more study." Even when most people hate it, for some reason, bullshit reigns."

Astute observation and reflection as always. Would make one question what type of democracy this really is.

[detmich]

Quote: "there may be many businesses that exist inthe Detroit/Windsor area specifically in response to the existing border regulations. If those regulations were gone tomorrow, so would those businesses and the jobs they provide."

What would those jobs be?

Quote: "there is much more here than the simplistic arguments that have been thrown out"

I think the above could be categorized as the most simplistic.

Well, let me point out other ways that this thinking of "lost revenue" is simplistic and wrong. Let's imagine that Steve the canuck wants to go out to dinner with his girlfriend. They say to themselves, "hmm, it would be nice to go to Detroit tonight, but the border crossing is such a pain. I mean lugging around those heavy burdensome passports and all." So StC and hi GF decide not to go over to Detroit. But, they still go out and spend their money. They spend it in eating dinner in Windsor instead. So, that money STILL is spent in the economy of the "International Metropolis".

The very same thing occurs when Levon the Yank and his GF decide they want to go out for the evening. Instead of crossing the border they just go to Cliff Bells instead. The money STILL got spent in the economy of the "International Metropolis". If StC and LtY still went out and spent their money, then the eceonomy on a whole is balanced out and did not, in fact lose any spending or jobs because of the passport requirement. The money has simply been redistributed. This is fairly simple economics.

I know these arguments have a lot of personal meaning to you guys, but they're just plain wrong.

[Lowell]

Your argument works would work just the same if the border was completely open. Levon would spend his lunch money in Windsor and Steve his in Detroit. All balances out and the money is still spent in metro DW.

Where it breaks down is when considering someone beyond the metro sprawl. It may be difficult to for some to accept, but Detroit and Windsor are major regional tourist attractions. If Nigel from Hamilton finds it too bothersome to visit Greenfield Village and Bubba from Owosso decides it is too much trouble to visit the Windsor ballet, bottom line we all lose money.

[eriedearie]

Your argument works would work just the same if the border was completely open. Levon would spend his lunch money in Windsor and Steve his in Detroit. All balances out and the money is still spent in metro DW.

Where it breaks down is when considering someone beyond the metro sprawl. It may be difficult to for some to accept, but Detroit and Windsor are major regional tourist attractions. If Nigel from Hamilton finds it too bothersome to visit Greenfield Village and Bubba from Owosso decides it is too much trouble to visit the Windsor ballet, bottom line we all lose money.

And if eriedearie's relatives and friends from down south, back east, and out west figure it's too much trouble to obtain a passport card [[that they may only use one time), to come and visit her in the Windsor area - that is lost revenue too!

Why can't the Washington bozos figure this out and stop the madness?!

[yupislyr]

From Sep 11, 01 onward, it's tanked nicely.



http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle1257883/

[48302]

From Sep 11, 01 onward, it's tanked nicely.



http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle1257883/

GOOD! These americans should keep their money in this country for crying out loud.

Why the heck would you want to be around a bunch of canadians anyways...everything there is backwards!

too many frickin liberals anyways....it's bad enough you democrats are the majority around here

AND BY THE WAY, it has been dropping since 9/11....so this trend has nothign to do with the total inconvenience of carrying that bulky passport around.

[48302]

Your argument works would work just the same if the border was completely open. Levon would spend his lunch money in Windsor and Steve his in Detroit. All balances out and the money is still spent in metro DW.

Where it breaks down is when considering someone beyond the metro sprawl. It may be difficult to for some to accept, but Detroit and Windsor are major regional tourist attractions. If Nigel from Hamilton finds it too bothersome to visit Greenfield Village and Bubba from Owosso decides it is too much trouble to visit the Windsor ballet, bottom line we all lose money.

Metro DW?

is that Metropolitan Detroit/Windsor?

Thats like saying Metropolitan Chicago/Gary

[48302]

Weird. On the border crossing issue, it seems 90 percent of people on both sides hate the new security, don't feel it makes them any safer, and want it relaxed. As usual, 10 percent of the people feel the issue "needs more study." Even when most people hate it, for some reason, bullshit reigns.

i guess i am part of the 15 that thinks that you are complaining about nothing.

Not to offend, but I still dont see it.

Whats the big deal...GET A PASSPORT!

[skyl4rk]

The issue is that the border guards are psychotic and treat everyone like criminals.

[Detroitnerd]

Yeah, a passport doesn't get you any more courtesy.

[Lowell]

..
Conclusion: if you do not have a passport that you can use now and wish to go to Canada and back tomorrow expect a 28 day wait at the border, so to speak, because that's when I was told I should expect to receive the new license...

My enhanced license arrived today, so you may only have a 10 day wait at the border, not 28. Of course I am still out $45 for this 'privilege' of returning to my country.

I suspect that I got mine quickly as I was able to present a valid passport when I applied, so the up to 28 may still apply for those with only a birth cert. and license.

[Matt]

Recently I got my passport because of a trip I'm taking in October to Toronto. The process was simple and quick. I received my passport in two weeks and I did not pay for expedited processing.

I have been to Windsor twice with my new passport and never really had a hassle at either of the checkpoints. Yeah, they're asking more questions, but if you stay cool and pleasant, you're not going to have a hard time passing through. Hell, on my last trip back into the states, the customs agent and I were joking and laughing.

[Roq]

My enhanced license arrived today, so you may only have a 10 day wait at the border, not 28. Of course I am still out $45 for this 'privilege' of returning to my country.

I suspect that I got mine quickly as I was able to present a valid passport when I applied, so the up to 28 may still apply for those with only a birth cert. and license.

Nope. My girlfriend didn't have a passport and she got her enhanced license in two weeks.

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

We have to be suspicious of anyone from Canada - you and your socialized medicine might be coming here to kill our Grandmas!!!!

[Thames]

We have to be suspicious of anyone from Canada - you and your socialized medicine might be coming here to kill our Grandmas!!!!

Might be? It already is here!

"Canadians visit U.S. to get health care"
http://www.freep.com/article/2009082...et-health-care

[Bobl]

Just made reservations for the cottage that we have been visiting in Canada for years next summer. Looks like we will have to bite the bullet and pay an extra 45 dollars each for the privilege of returning to this country. I would feel a little better if the fees were appropriated for anti rudeness training for the border workers on the US side.
Cottage owner tells me that her US visitor reservations for next summer are about the same, but autumn weekend reservations for this year are down to almost none. Could be that the economy is the culprit.
It just seems strange that it is now easier to pass through Checkpoint Charlie than to cross a bridge here.

"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."
Let's hope that Ben Franklin was wrong...