Armed robber thwarted at Packard - "no crime committed" say police

**Dan Wesson** · July-26-14, 05:46 PM

**Cliffy** · July-26-14, 09:05 PM

Originally Posted by animatedmartian

So what, are the police going to ask victims if they checked the internet before going to Packard? In that particular thread, most of the cases occurred on the property and pretty much all parties involved were trespassing. However, in this thread, the OP was on public property. Regardless, why are you defending the actions of criminals? They're the ones who are doing wrong and shouldn't be allowed to take other people's stuff, violently or otherwise.

Common sense. Don't be walking in the "hood" with expensive equipment and setting up photography shoots. Just like I don't walk 6 mile and Gratiot. Because their are ghetto thugs ready to pounce on me.

**Wesley Mouch** · July-26-14, 09:11 PM

Originally Posted by animatedmartian

That's still attempted robbery. How the fuck do the police disregard that?

On one hand, we fight against S&F. Then on the other hand, we complain that the cops don't make judgement calls. Which do we want.

The cops hit this right. Your word against someone else's. I say that guy with the gun actually just found something of yours on the ground and wanted to return it. His social skills are a bit lacking. And he carries a gun because he lives in a dangerous neighborhood. He's actually quite a nice guy, I hear.

**gnome** · July-26-14, 09:48 PM

Django gives a good tour. He is knowledgable and informative. Sounds like he did the right thing and hats off to NightTimer for following orders.

next time, though, forget the tripod. Yes I know they are expensive, but not worth the cost you almost paid. Also, keep a handful of singles in your pocket and throw them in the air when being chased.

**night-timer** · July-26-14, 10:20 PM

Originally Posted by gnome

Django gives a good tour. He is knowledgable and informative. Sounds like he did the right thing and hats off to NightTimer for following orders.

next time, though, forget the tripod. Yes I know they are expensive, but not worth the cost you almost paid. Also, keep a handful of singles in your pocket and throw them in the air when being chased.

Gnome, that's great advice and I truly appreciate it. Thank you! Those tid-bits of local knowledge and street advice are good.

Myself and Django met for a few beers tonight as a post-script to our Packard adventure yesterday. We work well together and we are on the same wave-length. I'm glad he was there for me.

On a separate but similar topic, maybe I'm too charitable, but I almost feel sorry for those "stick-up kids" yesterday; three young men in their 20s [[in the prime of their lives) living such a negative and desperate lifestyle. They wanted to do me harm, but I still feel for those poor, young men.

**night-timer** · July-26-14, 10:27 PM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

On one hand, we fight against S&F. Then on the other hand, we complain that the cops don't make judgement calls. Which do we want.

The cops hit this right. Your word against someone else's. I say that guy with the gun actually just found something of yours on the ground and wanted to return it. His social skills are a bit lacking. And he carries a gun because he lives in a dangerous neighborhood. He's actually quite a nice guy, I hear.

Wesley, sorry but I'm from Sydney, Australia. I don't understand a word of what you just said.

And who, or what, is S&F?

**Jimaz** · July-26-14, 10:45 PM

S&F = Stop and Frisk. Just guessing.

TennisAndMath · July-26-14, 11:15 PM

Originally Posted by aoife

Attempted armed robbery and the police were not concerned? WTF.

Don't worry, Lord Gilbert got three teen girls charged with felonies for tagging his property. You know, real criminals.

Pure Detroit.

**mwilbert** · July-26-14, 11:29 PM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

On one hand, we fight against S&F. Then on the other hand, we complain that the cops don't make judgement calls. Which do we want.

This is not really a correctly framed question. I didn't see anyone suggesting that police not make judgment calls, but of course people want police to use good judgment. The problem with stop and frisk isn't that people are stopped and frisked. The problem is that they are stopped and frisked for no particular reason, or for an illegitimate reason, which is both a waste of police resources and an imposition on those being stopped, and which makes it hard for the police to have a constructive relationship with the community they are policing.

On the other hand, if someone complains that they have just been threatened with a handgun, that is an actual reason to stop someone, check to make sure the gun is legal, check if they have outstanding warrants. The two situations have basically nothing to do with each other.

**Mark Smiles** · July-27-14, 09:19 AM

Originally Posted by Cliffy

http://www.detroityes.com/mb/showthr...ssaults-thefts

Yep, this is the most eye opening thread about crime in Detroit, excepting for DetroitNerd's "Ooooh, something awful happened in Detroit!" comment about a guy being beaten nearly to death by group of people in Detroit. DetroitNerd's contention that the whole affair was a joke, was confirmed by the Courts in Detroit.

The thread you posted makes it very clear, that being in the area, justifies the actions, of those who would help themselves to what is "available".

So if getting beaten into a comma is a joke, "Ooooh", and simply being at the Packard Plant justifies the actions of others, what happened to the OP would be a crime anywhere but Detroit.

**rex** · July-27-14, 11:40 AM

you go to that neighborhood at your own risk. It looks the way it does for a reason. The locals are disadvantaged, not much opportunity or money around and you my Australian friend looked like an opportunity. People around there know outsiders are drawn to the Packard. Its also a depopulated area, some blocks have a couple houses and if they target people in the neighborhood there is a better chance their victim will know who they are or will be able to find out without much trouble. Plus people in the neighborhood dont have much for the taking to begin with.
I think you made the right decision to GTFO. Might have taken the truck, all of your belongings and left you both standing there. They could have just shot you and took your shit too. Dont let there be a next time but seriously. A tripod isnt worth getting shot over

**compn** · July-27-14, 02:43 PM

Originally Posted by Danny

Almost got killed by black males wearing hoodies.

night timer said 'youths' but never what color their skin was. maybe you were witness to the party ?

**Hermod** · July-27-14, 02:52 PM

Originally Posted by compn

night timer said 'youths' but never what color their skin was. maybe you were witness to the party ?

and the probability that his assumption was in error?

**Cliffy** · July-27-14, 02:58 PM

Originally Posted by compn

night timer said 'youths' but never what color their skin was. maybe you were witness to the party ?

I'm sure they were white youths LOL

**compn** · July-27-14, 03:19 PM

coulda been a juggalo gang member!

**iheartthed** · July-27-14, 03:54 PM

Originally Posted by rex

It looks the way it does for a reason.

Because it's had a big ass abandoned auto plant sitting and rotting there for the past 60 years.

**rex** · July-27-14, 04:42 PM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Because it's had a big ass abandoned auto plant sitting and rotting there for the past 60 years.

No actually i mean because its one of the most impoverished neighborhoods in the nation. Feel free to disagree

**davewindsor** · July-27-14, 07:03 PM

Originally Posted by animatedmartian

That's still attempted robbery. How the fuck do the police disregard that?

It looks like the DPD is playing the "lets manipulate the crime statistics game" like the NYPD to make the city sound safer than it actually is. It sounds like someone higher up is telling front line officers not to process crimes that have a low chance of getting cleared. So by an officer not registering a crime happened, it looks like the crime rate in Detroit went down and the clearance rate for solving crimes went up when the DPD is just refusing to register a crime happened. It's wrong. The NYPD is notorious for not processing serious crimes and the DPD is following their example. I posted a long thread about what the NYPD was doing and how the 81st Brooklyn precinct was busted when one of their officers told the media about what they were doing here==> http://www.detroityes.com/mb/showthread.php?15627-40-less-crime-would-do-wonders-for-Detroit`

Someone needs to tell Mayor Duggan this is unacceptable.

**night-timer** · July-27-14, 09:20 PM

Originally Posted by davewindsor

It looks like the DPD is playing the "lets manipulate the crime statistics game" like the NYPD to make the city sound safer than it actually is. It sounds like someone higher up is telling front line officers not to process crimes that have a low chance of getting cleared. So by an officer not registering a crime happened, it looks like the crime rate in Detroit went down and the clearance rate for solving crimes went up when the DPD is just refusing to register a crime happened. It's wrong. The NYPD is notorious for not processing serious crimes and the DPD is following their example. I posted a long thread about what the NYPD was doing and how the 81st Brooklyn precinct was busted when one of their officers told the media about what they were doing here==> http://www.detroityes.com/mb/showthread.php?15627-40-less-crime-would-do-wonders-for-Detroit`

Someone needs to tell Mayor Duggan this is unacceptable.

Dave Windsor, I think you speak the truth... thanks to all of you for your insights, your opinions and for your Detroit local knowledge!

**ABetterDetroit** · July-27-14, 10:24 PM

Ok everyone, lets all calm down with some reality. The mayor doesn't have to be called in immediately. First and foremost did not 4 patrol cars respond? Not bad, not bad at all for a possible attempted robbery; two guys in hoodies one running with a gun, everyone is okay, nothing damaged or stolen and there isn't anything to go on like a vehicle or a known associate or identity, just two guys in hoodies. What would really be the point in filling out a bunch of paper work? The cops already know that this particular bad guys future has been settled one way or the other, but that this event is not going to be the one that settles it. Drive around see what you can see, who might still be hanging around sounds a little more practical. Pass the word around to the cops that work the packard plant area that a photographer tourist had a close call with bad guys should be a reasonable plan of attack. What are they supposed to do start dragging guys in for a line up? Based on what? A hoodie? Everyone knows that the DPD has plenty of work to do and they do exactly what the rest of us do, prioritize, and respond accordingly. The priority I would think is to respond to serious calls as quickly as they can where they can do some good. Not wasting valuable time on a complete dead end just to make someone feel better about having to make a fast exit flashing expensive camera gear in a very rough part of town.

**compn** · July-27-14, 11:00 PM

Originally Posted by ABetterDetroit

Ok everyone, lets all calm down with some reality. The mayor doesn't have to be called in immediately.

1. what fookin good are 4 cops [[or 400) when the criminals run free and the police abandon the search?
its like you get 4 firefighter trucks to show up at your burning house, but then they dont bother trying to save your house and let it burn.

2. a report is useless? do you seriously believe that? what if they got a sketch artist from night timer and catch the guy and link him to this crime so he ends up doing time for his misdeeds?

isnt that a huge gripe with the city currently on this forum? that judges go easy on 'they boys' and criminals are rotated out of jail very quickly? well if they linked this guy to multiple crimes he would be behind bars for longer periods of time.

did the armed robber touch the truck? maybe they can pull his prints?! ever think of that?

3. i do agree with you about the mayor. because the mayor isnt in charge of the police force.
you'd have to call kevyn orr and hes not takin your calls, sucka!

**mwilbert** · July-27-14, 11:00 PM

Originally Posted by ABetterDetroit

Ok everyone, lets all calm down with some reality. The mayor doesn't have to be called in immediately. First and foremost did not 4 patrol cars respond? Not bad, not bad at all for a possible attempted robbery; two guys in hoodies one running with a gun, everyone is okay, nothing damaged or stolen and there isn't anything to go on like a vehicle or a known associate or identity, just two guys in hoodies. What would really be the point in filling out a bunch of paper work? The cops already know that this particular bad guys future has been settled one way or the other, but that this event is not going to be the one that settles it. Drive around see what you can see, who might still be hanging around sounds a little more practical. Pass the word around to the cops that work the packard plant area that a photographer tourist had a close call with bad guys should be a reasonable plan of attack. What are they supposed to do start dragging guys in for a line up? Based on what? A hoodie? Everyone knows that the DPD has plenty of work to do and they do exactly what the rest of us do, prioritize, and respond accordingly. The priority I would think is to respond to serious calls as quickly as they can where they can do some good. Not wasting valuable time on a complete dead end just to make someone feel better about having to make a fast exit flashing expensive camera gear in a very rough part of town.

I basically agree with this, but it isn't adequate. If someone tells the police that they either just had a gun brandished at them, or that someone just attempted an armed robbery, it doesn't seem unreasonable for them to be told that given the small amount of information available and limited police resources, the DPD isn't going to be able to follow up on this. It is less reasonable to be told that seeing a gun isn't a crime.

**davewindsor** · July-28-14, 12:30 AM

Originally Posted by ABetterDetroit

What are they supposed to do start dragging guys in for a line up?

YES!

A police lineup serves two purposes:

1) They may actually catch the perp.

2) It sends out a message to everybody else that this sh*t ain't gonna be tolerated anymore and the police are cleaning up the city. Word travels fast that the police are taking matters like this seriously when people are getting dragged in for a lineup. This becomes a deterrence for any future wannabe robbers.

**Django** · July-28-14, 02:40 AM

I was just in shock that four cop cars showed up while one unit took our info and description the other three just hung around chatting with each other until they said "okay, we have your information" The DPD showed up very quickly but not one took off to roam the area looking for two in hoodies with a gun. Night Timer does not know the area but I do very well for the last 14 years and that's why I encourage people to hire someone who does know an area like this if they want to photograph it. The areas in Detroit are constantly changing and archiving these changes I believe are important. Night Timer is not an imbedded reporter in the Gaza strip but is taking his chances documenting the change that is happening in Detroit and I have a lot of respect for that. I only wish I had taken more pics with my 35mm back in the 90s to compare it to todays sights. Night Timer has put a lot of time and money into coming here to Detroit to photograph and interview people from all over Detroit and he will not be scared off by a couple of punks, I respect that. He's here to do a job and he is going to do it.

**KOMPOST** · July-28-14, 07:37 AM

Originally Posted by Django

I was just in shock that four cop cars showed up while one unit took our info and description the other three just hung around chatting with each other until they said "okay, we have your information" The DPD showed up very quickly but not one took off to roam the area looking for two in hoodies with a gun. Night Timer does not know the area but I do very well for the last 14 years and that's why I encourage people to hire someone who does know an area like this if they want to photograph it. The areas in Detroit are constantly changing and archiving these changes I believe are important. Night Timer is not an imbedded reporter in the Gaza strip but is taking his chances documenting the change that is happening in Detroit and I have a lot of respect for that. I only wish I had taken more pics with my 35mm back in the 90s to compare it to todays sights. Night Timer has put a lot of time and money into coming here to Detroit to photograph and interview people from all over Detroit and he will not be scared off by a couple of punks, I respect that. He's here to do a job and he is going to do it.

Right on.
I think it's important that this moment especially is being well-documented in Detroit. Some dismiss this as "more ruin porn" and that may be the case in some instances, but Detroit is rapidly evolving and its current condition is not static.
I applaud your and NT's efforts in detailing this unique metropolis.
Also, I'd like to highlight NT's sympathy for his would-be attackers. Such compassion is extremely rare, especially mere hours after a potentially life-threatening experience.
Bravo to you both.