Should we get rid of I-375?

[Wesley Mouch]

That's an interesting idea. The drawback is that MDOT would have to make the investment for this themselves and then hope the market to build on top of it materializes. For that reason I think the chance is nil that it happens.

But decommissioning 375 will put a lot of land back on the tax rolls in the most desired area in all of Detroit right now. For that reason I think 375 is a goner [[and not a moment too soon.)

Bridges and parking garages are expensive. Dirt is cheap. [[Perhaps MDOT could buy all the dirt they pay to dispose of when they widen 94? Just think about it. Two chances for markups and to hire your friends! Kwame would be all over this.)

[Novine]

Combine it with the goal of unearthing the buried creeks and you'll have some dirt.

Along the same lines, the Detroit LID is a pretty good concept.

http://www.letssavemichigan.com/tran...est/livinglab/

[erikd]

When I first saw this thread, I immediately started estimating how many trucks full of dirt it would take. Where would that dirt come from? Maybe the I94 improvements? You sure don't want to buy dirt from far away, unless some trucking company magnate has MDOT in their pocket. How likely is that?

It never occurred to me to reuse the hole in the ground.

Maybe it wouldn't work, but its creative thinking.

Oh, and about your comment on throughput of surface streets. You're quite right. Don't underestimate a good surface street. This would probably be a wide boulevard with multiple lanes. Yes, it might take RenCen traffice 40 seconds more. But it would be way faster to get to other places along the way. Especially those on the east side of the Chrysler. Less backtracking than now.

The proposed elimination of I375 has caused quite a bit of ridiculous doomsday scenarios, most of which are completely unfounded.

First off, the freeway will not be removed in favor of some kind of walking/biking path. It will still be a road, quite open to vehicular traffic.

Secondly, there is a widely-held misconception that I-375 helps traffic flows in and out of downtown, when in fact it actually hinders traffic flows in and out of downtown.

I-375 is a limited-access freeway that was designed in the late 50s/early 60s to compliment the "civic center", which is basically Cobo Hall, the CAYMC, Ford Auditorium, and what is now Hart Plaza. I-375 was designed to speed vehicles past Eastern Market, Greektown, Lafayette Park, the riverfront district, the criminal/justice district, what is now the stadium district, what is now the BCBSM campus, and what is now the Ren Cen, just to get cars to the front door of the CAYMC and Cobo, and the Ford Auditorium garage, a few seconds faster.

The problem with I-375, which the planners at the time failed to consider, is that none of the parking for any of the civic center attractions is accessible from the I-375 terminus, except for the underground Ford Auditorium garage.

The downtown Detroit parking system that was envisioned by the 1950s freeway planners was never built, except for the Ford Auditorium garage. As a result, we have a freeway that blows past every place that people are actually driving to, simply to expedite traffic flow to the underutilized Ford Auditorium garage on Jefferson.

As I-375 exists in it's current configuration, it severely resticts traffic flows into the stadium/theater district, Eastern Market, Greektown, the BCBS campus, Lafayette Park, East Jefferson, Rivertown, and the Ren Cen.

If I-375 was replaced with a surface street after the I-75 split, it would allow multi-lane access to Madison, Gratiot, Lafayette, Congress, Larned, Jefferson, and would continue south of Jefferson to service the riverfront and all of the Ren Cen parking garages.

In the current configuration, all stadium and theater traffic is bottlenecked into a one-lane exit ramp feeding four-lane Madison, while 9-lane Gratiot is left completely inaccessible from the freeway. The next exit is Lafayette, which again bottlenecks all traffic into a one-lane exit ramp, to feed a six-lane divided boulevard. Next is the East Jefferson/Congress exit ramp, which bottlenecks traffic into a one-lane exit ramp to feed a pair of three-lane roads [[Larned and Congress) AND the four lanes of eastbound Jefferson. For the RenCen traffic continuing onto the end of the freeway, they are all bottlenecked into a single-lane left turn lane at the end of the freeway to turn onto two-lane Beaubian in order to access all of the RenCen parking.

I-375 might be the most poorly designed piece of freeway in the entire country. The only thing it does well is funnel southbound I-75 traffic onto the northbound Lodge, which is completely pointless.

If I-375 was replaced by a surface street after the I-75 split, we could have two-lane turning onto Madison, two-lane right turning, and one lane left turning, onto Gratiot, two-lane right turning, and one-lane left turning, onto Lafayette, multi-lane turning onto Congress and Larned, multi-lane turning onto east AND westbound Jefferson, AND lanes running south of Jefferson into the RenCen-riverfront district.

The improvement of traffic flows and dispersement would be fantastic, the walkability of the area would improve greatly, and the infrastructure maintenance cost would decrease significantly.

Removing I-375 is a win-win-win-win situation.

[Gistok]

I think that what many of you I-375 planners forget is that I-375 is the YING on the east side of downtown Detroit... to the YANG of the Lodge Freeway on the west side of downtown Detroit. It is a mirror image of the lower Lodge... nothing more, nothing less. They serve the same function... to funnel traffic to the lower downtown reaches. If you're going to park in one of the garages in the Financial District... you are more than likely to go down the Lodge or I-375 to get to them via Jefferson. If you're going to Canada via the tunnel, you'll follow the same route. If you're going to a function along East Jefferson or at Hart Plaza... same route.

[Wesley Mouch]

I think that what many of you I-375 planners forget is that I-375 is the YING on the east side of downtown Detroit... to the YANG of the Lodge Freeway on the west side of downtown Detroit. It is a mirror image of the lower Lodge... nothing more, nothing less. They serve the same function... to funnel traffic to the lower downtown reaches. If you're going to park in one of the garages in the Financial District... you are more than likely to go down the Lodge or I-375 to get to them via Jefferson. If you're going to Canada via the tunnel, you'll follow the same route. If you're going to a function along East Jefferson or at Hart Plaza... same route.

Yes, the pairing of the two freeways look good on a map. But that's not the purpose of freeways.

For example, you cite the tunnel as part of the need for the pair. The tunnel is one lane each way. The freeways together are 5 lanes each way. Hardly necessary to carry the tunnel traffic.

The term is/was overused, but there's been a paradigm shift. Once upon a time, freeways were the cool tool of highway planner. Used where they shouldn't.

They are necessary. I'm fully in favor of freeways through town. I remember what driving crosstown was like before 696. What getting downtown from the west side was like before 96. Freeways have made things better, although sometimes the medicine hurt.

We can disagree about freeways overall. But I think few any longer think they're necessary for stubs like 375 [[or the Lodge S of 75 either.) M5 in Novi works just fine. And its not a freeway. Would it be better if it were? No.

Freeways are a fine tool. But I'd remove all freeways within midtown, and as posted before, let 96/94 be the through route.

[Sehv313]

Leave I 375 alone & turn Mound Rd into a freeway, It takes all day just to get from Gratiot & Van Dyke to 9 & Ryan... so many side streets

[KJ5]

Leave I 375 alone & turn Mound Rd into a freeway, It takes all day just to get from Gratiot & Van Dyke to 9 & Ryan... so many side streets

Mound was supposed to be a freeway. That's why it's so wide with the giant island in the middle. The Davison was going to extend into Mound.

[Sehv313]

Mound was supposed to be a freeway. That's why it's so wide with the giant island in the middle. The Davison was going to extend into Mound.

Still a good plan, right now its just used for a nice view of tall uncut grass or by chrysler workers who race each other before work.

[detroitpride313]

Detroit’s Downtown Development Authority on Wednesday approved a $373,000 planning contract to develop alternatives to the current configuration of the 1-mile Interstate 375 expressway from Gratiot Avenue to Atwater Street.

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...nges-to-i-375#

[bailey]

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...nges-to-i-375#

money quote

The firm also is being asked to think up ways to finance the project. The city is bankrupt, and MDOT said it has no money to spend on an I-375 redesign.

Project backers have suggested private money could be an option to pay for construction, possibly exchanging frontage along the boulevard in return for cash.

MDOT has no money for this project but it does have the money to add lanes to 75 and 94 that are totally unnecessary.

I love this place...never ending parade of stupid.

[jt1]

money quote


MDOT has no money for this project but it does have the money to add lanes to 75 and 94 that are totally unnecessary.

I love this place...never ending parade of stupid.

Hahahahahahaha. Oh wait, your statement is too accurate to be funny. Just when MDOT can't seem any more incompetent and out of touch they prove me wrong again and again and again