Hart Plaza Renovation: Will It Ever Happen?

[jtf1972]

As nice as the renderings are, there is still a major problem with Hart Plaza that is not addressed that will prevent it from being an integral part of downtown... the vast, imposing stretch of concrete that acts as a moat. We call it Jefferson Ave. You want to have a nice park/plaza that connects downtown to the river? Do something about the 10 lane freeway on/off ramp that acts nearly as much as a border as the river to the south.

[rb336]

Maybe put it underground, at least over a long enough stretch to have a big green path to the plaza?

[DetroitPlanner]

As nice as the renderings are, there is still a major problem with Hart Plaza that is not addressed that will prevent it from being an integral part of downtown... the vast, imposing stretch of concrete that acts as a moat. We call it Jefferson Ave. You want to have a nice park/plaza that connects downtown to the river? Do something about the 10 lane freeway on/off ramp that acts nearly as much as a border as the river to the south.

Two words: Lakeshore Drive.

Chicago has the same issue, but it has found ways to mitigate that issue. In addition, there is no 'moat' because it is connected to downtown through Cobo. Yes it is only one side, but the other side has the Ren Cen which has a good chunk of the City's employment and tourism.

I walk from my office to Hart Plaza often. If you sprint it you can make it across in one signal, but for most people it takes two. This is not an unusual amount of time to cross as many lanes as Jefferson has.

If you're real issue is the freeway, I don't know how that could realistically removed or reduced. Remember, this is still a critical link from the freeway system to an international border crossing and a major feeder into downtown's CBD. Burying the connector part won't work because there is already parking underneath. Even if we can double the transit trips it would not take enough cars out to completely remove the garage so Jefferson could be Wacker Drive.

Of course if the city does not have money for fire fighters, police officers, it will definitely be a long time before it will have the money for a major improvement to the transit system, a greening of Hart Plaza, or a partial burying of Jefferson Ave.

[wolverine]

Two words: Lakeshore Drive.

Chicago has the same issue, but it has found ways to mitigate that issue.

Really only in some parts of downtown. Many of the access points are terrible. Narrow tunnels that get overcrowded during the summer or narrow sidewalks beneath dark overpasses. The city has made some half-assed attempts to spruce them up like a murals program...but they're still concrete tunnels IMO

Oak Street Beach Improvement:


Navy Pier LSD improvement:



But the area of park along the lake is primarily for beachfront enjoyment and fitness. The largest share of park visitors on that side of LSD are bicycling, jogging, and skateboarding.

Only recently have they begun to improve access and when that's done it will have cost well over $1Billion....fortunately from a good share coming from the feds. Many of those improvements are long-span / high clearance overpasses with a ton of landscaping. People don't really know what they are passing beneath, but it's so open it feels more like a gateway than a bridge.

I'm not sure Detroit can achieve it. You need hundreds, if not thousands of feet of approach to create sweeping 100 foot wide sidewalks that would go beneath Jefferson. The only solution Detroit would have is a tunnel or a pedestrian bridge. The pedestrian bridge could be done nicely, but again.....long ramps for ADA or elevators that would get vandalized and dirty and I'd hate to see stairs. So I really don't know how it could be done effectively. Seems like most people would still continue to use crosswalks.

Additionally, it's a different problem with the other side is a plaza. The plaza tends to provide best utility for a large events. There's no issues getting people to go there...they have a reason to attend an event. The issue is convenience and getting people to cross at lunch or providing visual attraction to visitors not familiar to the city. I agree that many people see that wide crossing and go "I don't want to deal with that."

But if Hart Plaza can become a "super attraction" it could get visitors coming in just to see the park. More engaging sculptures, world class outdoor performance spaces, and patches of unique and interesting landscaped areas.

Right now Hart Plaza is an unattractive modernist nightmare. It's poorly bookended on each side by Cobo and a parking garage. Needs improved access along Jefferson and far better engagement with the river.

I think the best way to get things moving is to sell a really attractive $350 million park renovation to business leaders. Have the entire thing financed and eventually managed and controlled privately and maintained through a trust. It helps take the burden of maintenance off the city and also allows private security more managing control over the park [[banning panhandlers, removal of obnoxious park visitors and permitting consumption of alcohol for example)