Printable View
Big promises for a thriving urban core in Detroit vanish in a swath of parking lots.
The city’s billionaire Ilitch family made ambitious promises in 2013, but now the area remains a redevelopment deadzone.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/oct/08/detroit-the-district-redevelopment-ilitch-companies
Count me among their number. I don't know - or care - if their smarmy website is still up but it had absolutely ludicrous blurbs about creating avant guard neighborhoods out of thin air.Quote:
Originally Posted by stinkytofu
Hawkers of low-quality pizza from Garden City. They seem like their cognitive powers froze in a strip mall in 1959. Churched up a theatre 30 years ago, made money from stadia and flattened everything else. Really, really loathsome record.
Had they not demolished everything, those buildings would be satisfying some of the demand for housing in downtown/midtown right now.
Seems like the perfect time to develop and capitalize on location. I personally don’t think it’s as simple as stalling or worst still, reneging.
If I had to guess, I’d say:
1. After Mikes death, the family is fragmented and can’t come to a unanimous decision on moving forward, or
2. They can not secure skilled trades labour to start building.
yikes...this is pretty shameful
Quote:
Victor Matheson, a sports economist at College of the Holy Cross, said what’s playing out in The District is unique.
“It’s not rare at all that new development does not materialize or takes very long to materialize – that’s very common,” he said. “It is extremely rare to see a stadium cause a neighborhood to go backwards – that is very rare.”
Detroit never seems to learns from her mistakes. Whether it's the casinos, the Marathon expansion, Little Ceaser's Arena or the impending Michigan Central/Ford development. Sweetheart deals are made with developers and corporations under the assumption that all the lofty promises will come to fruition. Instead of assuming, they must demand!
I hope that some day these ridiculous tax breaks for the wealthy are abolished. That said, if deals like this are signed in the future everything promised needs to be fulfilled and the consequences of not doing so need to be concrete and powerful enough to make it happen.
I've long been an Ilitch critic, and still am. They still have a lot to prove with their promises to undue some of their past damage.
To their credit, they've made progress in the LQ HQ [[although the facade is stalled). They still have a lot more to prove.
Its frustrating when Santa Claus doesn't show up but how many politicians have also promised an elixir?
I would guess this to be the case. Chris seems to be much more cautious and calculated than his father, who seemed to understand that LCA and its surroundings were going to go a long way to repair and define his legacy. The fact that he died when he did certainly didnt help with a family with obvious fractures, running a multi-billion dollar empire, and a development with the scale of The District Detroit.Quote:
Originally Posted by SammyS
The thing is, from a P.R. standpoint, just renovating a single building into residential, which could have been completed by now,would go a very long way.Quote:
Originally Posted by DetroitSoldier
Guys. We just need to wait.
;)
This is exactly what I don't get from a PR standpoint. They tear everything down for parking lots and drag their feet on any sort of promised development [[other than what directly benefits their business, such as the new headquarters). Even after benefiting from huge tax givebacks. Its so obvious that they could benefit greatly from actually moving forward on at least ONE other notable project. Such as the Eddystone [[instead of having missed deadlines on it).Quote:
Originally Posted by 401don
.
No family fragmentation.... Marion Ilitch was and still is the power behind the throne.... been that way for 50+ years. She writes the checks. Once Marion passes away... that's when the fragmentation may start...Quote:
Originally Posted by SammyS
I drove by this building on Sunday. Located about a block from LCA, I was dumbfounded that this building was not rehabbed. The rent that could be obtained from its advantageous location to LCA would be staggering. My guess is residential development is beyond the grasp of the family.
Designed by William S. Joy.& Company.Alhambra Apartment Building 112 Temple built in 1895 Cass Park Historic District Detroit, MI.
This is an older photo of the building, I refuse to take a photo of the building in its current state.
The Ill-itch Klan is all about them selves, no one else. They have NO concern for the city as a whole.
That said, they seem to be turning their backs on ready cash which is a bit befuddling.
So far as redevelopment goes, the Illitches have done one undoubted good thing in their long history in downtown, which is the Fox renovation. The arena and the stadium are mixed bags, and everything else they've done is pretty much bad, consisting mostly of finding excuses for turning things that weren't parking lots into parking lots. They are clearly much more comfortable with parking lots than with anything else.
I never thought they would pursue the non-arena aspects of District Detroit energetically, and they have not. Eventually the economics of actually developing the surrounding area may become sufficiently compelling that they will either do something or sell some of the land to someone else. Hopefully that won't take too long, but parking lots can be pretty profitable.
This article is, with all respect to the author, in my opinion, stupid.
First of all, by the description and all intentions, the LCA was supposed to be the anchor of the area. That anchor opened in September of 2017. So it's been just about one year since the first piece of the puzzle is complete. And, the author's suggestion seems, they are supposed to be done with the rest of development in a year thereafter?
Next, let's analyze this gem of a paragraph:
"In recent years, Ilitch companies in and around The District leveled at least 30 buildings and currently maintain nearly 40 blighted or vacant structures. On blocks where historic buildings once stood, they have laid dozens of surface parking lots. Those are controversial because the Ilitches charge up to $50 per spot, and a vast stretch of once-dense downtown real estate is now a sea of Ilitch-owned parking spaces."
This idiocy requires lacking understanding [[and failing to seek to understand) the following:
1. Were the buildings there actually occupied? Hint: no.
2. Was the plan "build everything at once," expressed to anyone at any time? Hint: also no.
3. When you're tearing down a blighted building, and you create a parking lot, is it always going to be a parking lot, or can the owner build something there later? Hint: cmon.
This is a perfect example of an author coming up with a theory and seeking out facts to match the theory. There is a passing reference to the rest of the development in the area, which is massive. There is no discussion [[although I'm sure Midtown Detroit would have given them the data on a silver platter, for free no less) about the absorption period for office, retail or apartment space in the area. No discussion about whether bringing 40 buildings to market at one time would be financially wise [[no).
People can and do have different opinions about the LCA and whether the TIF was justified. But to say that the area hasn't improved with the LCA there is positively insane.
I agree that there is no reason to think the area should have sprung to life all at once, but there is very little happening at all that I can see. In particular, in an area where there seems to be a lot of housing absorption, there has been no residential development at all. There are, however, an increasing number of parking lots. Given that downtown has improved in general since the inception of the project, and considering the amount of public money sunk into District Detroit, there might be a bit more progress toward the vision which they originally presented.Quote:
Originally Posted by BankruptcyGuy
I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle. First of all, the area has been improved upon. And yes some new planned residential development has instead been turned to commercial space. And yes, the Detroit Life Building on Park is finally [[after 15 years of announcements) getting restored.
But there are some disturbing developments. The Cass-Henry block of 6 attractive 100 year old apartment buildings had to be turned into a Historic District in order to prevent the Ilitch's plan to flatten them for a few more parking spaces. The 13 story Eddystone could have had some new windows and a new roof added by now, to prevent further deterioration [[this will be the 2nd winter of being open to the elements after the promise of restoration).
And then we have the Fine Arts Building on W. Adams.... the "Perma-Scaffolding" has been on the surviving facade since 2009. With the restoration of the Broderick Tower, David Whitney Building, Madison Building and Detroit Opera House, as well as the under construction of the Village Green Apartments all facing the facade of the former fine Arts Building... what are visitors to Detroit thinking when they see this abomination?
And then behind the new Little Caesar's HQ going up... there is still the boarded up [[for 20+ years) Blenheim Apartments, and farther afield the Moose Lodge, surrounded by a sea of parking in the west Foxtown area.
I agree that they cannot do the entire District Detroit at once [[it could take 10 years). But they have some old buildings that need some long deferred maintenance that has been in the planning stages for up to 20 years.
Could it be that the high and mighty Ill-Itches simply got caught with their pants down so-to-speak and didn't believe in, anticipate or plan for the resurgence of the area?
http://www.districtdetroit.com/press...strict-detroit
https://makeameme.org/meme/really-you-dont-d4kq1jQuote:
In the area around Little Caesars Arena, more than $18 million have been invested in the city’s infrastructure, including blocks of landscaped medians which both beautify the area and provide traffic control and security benefits.
CHERRY ON TOP
https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/...me_419-238.pngQuote:
The District Detroit is a dynamic urban destination in the heart of Detroit. One that includes something for everyone—a dense neighborhood experience with a variety of developments alongside Detroit’s premier sports and entertainment venues.
That mess demonstrates Olympia’s total lack of giving a damn about their neighbors investments on Grand Circus Park and sets the tone as the gateway to their property from downtown. Lifeless wreckage with empty promises.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gistok
When you get everything for free, what's the incentive to make a go of things? The Ilitch organization has one major talent, and it isn't neighborhood development: It's priming the pump with public gifts of direct subsidies, tax abatement, donations of land, and various other gifts. That skill set ensures a steady flow of corporate welfare money.
If they had been required to pay for all their land, would they have relegated it to the lowest form of real estate -- surface parking? If they didn't have the pull they do with the city, would they have been able to avoid blight fines for so long, or fine for not conforming to landscaping rules for parking lots?
People who actually buy land in the city and take a risk have no choice but to develop everything as best they can. But when you are given the land, the money, the tax breaks, and the free publicity of the major news media, you don't need to do shit.
...is anyone actually impressed by District Detroit? We have a brand new shiny arena surrounded by half finished buildings, surface lots and garages, and abandoned buildings that were supposed to be under renovation right now, but of course aren’t. Olympia’s quick to fall back on their restoration of the Fox when they’re critiqued about this, but at the same time they’ve leveled dozens of buildings in the blocks around Columbia Street and Comerica Park. The only things they’ve successfully built are parking lots, parking garages and the arena. The majority of what they own is either abandoned or related to parking. There’s nothing dense about District Detroit as it is now or in their more immediate “plans”, which involve reusing buildings that are already standing.
And let’s not forget the illegal demolition of the Madison Lenox. They claimed it would be a “paved and landscapes parking lot”, but of course it still sat as gravel for nearly a decade after. I believe the American Hotel was slated to begin renovations this year. Instead they recently had the entire building boarded up. Or the Ansonia down Cass, where they waited until their given deadline to secure the building after months of attempting to tear it down. There’s also the US Motor Sales building on Woodward, which was occupied until they purchased it. Now it’s without power sitting unused after locals protested its demolition by neglect by Olympia.
The only thing Olympia cares about is sports, parking and pizza. I’d be stunned if they ever got around to restoring any of their property, let alone create an entire “exciting” and “dense” neighborhood.
Sorry to say it, but who couldn't predict this would happen? I'm all but sure even those selling the dream knew that it would.Quote:
Originally Posted by stinkytofu
NSorti.... the Ilitch's got a $700,000 DEGC or DDA loan for the city's unannounced demolition of the Madison-Lenox... with the understanding that if they built something in its' place within 7 years, they wouldn't have to pay it back. Well it's been double that amount of time... no replacement building, and I don't think they ever had to pay back a dime.
The M-L was on the National Trusts 'List of 11 Most Endangered Historic Places' in 2006. In the entire 31 year history of the National Trusts "list"... only 1 building has ever been torn down in the USA in the year it was on the list... namely the Madison-Lenox.
Even back in 2006 Chris Ilitch [[Mike stayed out of the fray) refused to meet or talk with the National Trusts president Richard Moe. So what did the National Trust do? They shamed the Ilitch's by putting the facade of the 'abandoned by neglect' Detroit United Artists building [[with all the graffiti painted windows) on the cover of their [[4 million readers) National Trust Magazine... for the country to see. But that didn't seem to phase the Ilitch's. :[[
If I had to guess, I'd say the intent from the very beginning was the following:Quote:
Originally Posted by SammyS
Step 1: Promise they'd replace the cass corridor with xanadu to secure the DDA giveaways, public investments, tax abatements, and the necessary permission and forgiveness to demolish away.
Step 2: Build only those things they really wanted: the arena, the parking, the parking, and the parking, their headquarters, and the Woodward Avenue B School memorial to the patriarch [[for sentimental reasons, and to count toward the $200M in related development they needed to gain an extra $74M reimbursement beyond the $250M they initially secured).
Step 3: Wait, delay, prepare excuses, and only if they decide they really want to, build anything else.
In other words, it's all going per plan.
Anyone who expected them to fulfill all those ridiculous PR promises was taken for a fool.
I say this every time: I hope the Ilitches prove me wrong. But several years later, they still haven't.
Just wanted to highlight a great resource referenced in the Guardian article. Someone made a map of Detroit properties the Ilitches have demolished and neglected, their surface lots, and parcels of land they acquired from the city for $1:
https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/vi....05959105&z=14
So I'm not the only one who notices the hype, the glitz,the momentum,
isn't exactly all roses and sweet smells for the Detroit area ?
I agree with a lot of this article. The Ilitches have a habit of hanging onto a lot of property without developing much. Of course the stuff they do develop is massive but mostly self-contained and does little to spur additional development. I had a feeling that when they announced “The District” there was a modest chance of it actually coming to full fruition. The thing we’ve seen over and over here is that we can’t expect the development of a whole new artificial district or town at one time or by one developer [[Failed Asian Town, Failed African Town, Failed Chaldean Town,). The vibrant areas slowly occur naturally over time [[Midtown, Campus Martius area, Lower Woodward retail, Corktown, Capitol Park area, Royal Oak, Ferndale).
This forum has been extremely critical of the Illitch family for years, but don't let that stop you from morphing this to fit your narrative.Quote:
Originally Posted by O3H
This. You can't manufacture cool, no matter how hard you try.Quote:
Originally Posted by cmubryan
Detroit city ordinance demands that all parking lots must be fenced in wrought-iron fencing.
Somehow the Illiches have never had to comply with this.
So you can always tell an Illich owned lot by the ratty, temporary cyclone fencing.
I appreciate this article and this thread for showing the truth about Olympia and the Ilitches. They don't care about redevelopment. They don't care about the city. They just care about making money via the arena, stadium, parking lots and pizza.
The argument that it takes time to get the District Detroit up to par and that it wouldn't take one year to get it all done is absolutely true. It will take more than a year. But in that year, what has happened? Ilitch has tried to tear down more buildings, which required a Historic District to be announced just to save buildings. They've done nothing with a number of their historic buildings, minus the Detroit Life Building which is FINALLY after 15?+ years of owning it, is being renovated. But more parking lots have been made than historic buildings boarded up. It's so obvious where their priorities are.
I really think this is what the Illitches don't understand. They're old school - and I mean that in the worst way. Having had their business come of age in 1958 in a strip mall, I get the impression that is where the mindset got stuck. In those days, urban = bad and decay. In that era were busy trying to implode Corktown and Woodbridge because they were icky and old, to say nothing of predominantly black areas! So I don't think the Illitches can fundamentally understand urban development/redevelopment without a huge demolition a la urban renewal component. I don't think they're bad people, unlike, say, the Marouns. I think they do care about Detroit on some level, but are like the alcoholic father who beats his child "out of love."Quote:
Originally Posted by djtomt
And my wife used to work in a firm that worked with Olympia. Believe me, it is the stone age. MadMen, but not in a cool way.
I really wish they'd just run their shitty pizza joint and keep to themselves. And get out of the Tigers for God's sake.
Thanks for posting this map link. It really gives quite a visual. I didn't realize they had property extending west all the way to and along to Trumbull. These were probably purchased back when Tiger Stadium was still up & running.Quote:
Originally Posted by bust
Not one person in the world said "build everything at once" nor would anyone expect to bring "40 buildings to market at one time." But perhaps a wee bit of progress on the Illitch's wasteland of parking lots and abandoned structures?Quote:
Originally Posted by BankruptcyGuy
Yeah but if you're acting like some big real estate empire, you'd think they'd be able to handle multiple projects at once especially when they basically implied everything will avalanche into development when the arena is finished. So while building everything at once would be nice but unrealistic for sure, there's not much else going now except plenty of parking lots and an embarrassing unfinished HQ.Quote:
Originally Posted by BankruptcyGuy
When the announcement about the Columbia St. retail/entertainment came out [[2nd time in 20 years), I thought well it's better than what was there before [[parking). Also they announced "... with Festoon Lighting!".... sounded almost exciting... until I looked up what that involved....
https://www.google.com/search?q=fest...w=1536&bih=723
...lightbulbs strung overhead... :eek:
Since it seems my posts are among those you reference, I'll re-state the obvious: Detroit would be much rosier, its revitalization much sweeter, were it not for the destruction, neglect, andQuote:
Originally Posted by O3H
terribleterribly selfish civic vision of the Ilitches.
I was kind of hoping Mikey D would scratch these kinds of itches, but he seems to be rolling over and letting them continue.
I expect to see you at Frita Batidos under the festoon lighting celebrating the realization of the 20 year Columbia Street dream...Quote:
Originally Posted by Gistok
I think you are correct in that the truth lies somewhere in between, as fun as the broken promises/trail of tears narrative is. I think the issue is with leadership. Not necessarily at the top with the Ilitch family, but specifically with Olympia Development.
People compare the Ilitch's with Dan Gilbert with respect to development, but I think a lot of the credit should go to the leadership at Bedrock. Though Dan surely provides inspiration and direction, Dan Mullen, Jim Ketai and others have done an excellent job in leadership roles. I don't think they would have the same success without them.
What Olympia seems to struggle with are stand alone projects that aren't directed by an outside entity. They built LCA, but that vision was largely set by the Red Wings and Tom Wilson. The College of Business was built for WSU. Little Caesars, though own by the Ilitch companies, had its own needs and agenda in building their headquarters. Everything else seems to have fallen apart. American Community Developers, which was going to be responsible for the Eddystone, Alhambra, and American developments is gone, leaving those in basically RFP stage again. The UA building is still in "pre-construction planning" and the developer supposedly had issues with financing. The two new construction buildings on Henry St, now to be office space, are probably the most puzzling as to why there is no work being done. It looks like Olympia is now going to develop those themselves now that ACD is gone, but who knows.
They did recently hire Keith Bradford from Disney to lead Olympia Development. Don't know much about this guy, other than he seems to be well liked. Hopefully, he can turn things around, because it sure seems Olympia caught themselves with their pants down on these projects. Totally unprepared.
The good news is that the Ilitch's do have a fairly good track record at hiring themselves into success, as with the aforementioned Tom Wilson. Both the Red Wings and Tigers were a mess before they were able to find experienced, competant leadership. And Little Caesar's was on a downward dive in the 90's and early 2000's. It seems that they were able to right that ship as well.
CrashDummy, just so we’re on the same page, WSU’s Mike Ilitch School of Business has nothing to do with Olympia or District Detroit. The Ilitches donated the money allowing its construction. Other than that, they had nothing to do with it.
They did dictate the location. I wonder if Steven Ross had said his new Ross School of Business had to go right next door to the Big House or nothing how that would have gone over?Quote:
Originally Posted by NSortzi
WSU would've had a greater benefit from a new building on campus in my opinion. Considering the current progress on the ‘District Detroit’, I don’t give much credence to the Ilitch’s opinions over anyone else’s on what should go where. It now seems the choice was simply a new school building with Mike’s name on it or more surface parking next to the arena. Given that, I guess it ended up working out the best way it could have.
Olympia was the developer. But WSU was the driving force behind the design and requirements, which is kind of my point.Quote:
Originally Posted by NSortzi
For a $100+ million donation, he could have built it anywhere he wanted except in the Big House.Quote:
Originally Posted by ABetterDetroit
The new MBA building is basically the dumbest project. I have a family member getting an Wayne MBA and the student body is upset about the project.Quote:
Originally Posted by ABetterDetroit
Why in the hell wasn't the school built on campus? The student body is like 95% suburban 20-30-40-somethings, many with children and almost all with full time jobs far away, and most classes are at night so putting it downtown is adding significant commute time.
But it's actually worse, because students won't be allowed to park there at subsidized rates [[like on campus), but will be forced to take a shuttle from campus. In reality, most students will have to pony up at Illitch's parkings moats. And it will be a disaster when there's a LCA event concurrent with a class.
Then to top it all off, Wayne was forced to close and sell its Farmington Hills MBA center because of cost overruns downtown. So now there's no way to escape the new hell commute if your class isn't offered online [[and many aren't).
Wayne will lose MBA students, no question. There are so many online MBAs these days, from schools with comparable quality. They've made an already difficult 40 minute commute a 90 minute commute, essentially impossible with kids and full time job.
Sad to hear my alma mater collaborated with and/or fell victim to the Krazy bread klan.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bham1982
Shortly after I graduated they tore down the block at Warren and Woodward for unknown reasons. Since then it has been utilized as an empty lot with 2 benches in it. Why didn't they put the Illitch School of Cardboard Pizza hawking there?
WSU served me very well. Was able to pay off the loans, got a very good education, have always been gainfully employed, and inspired a lifelong love of Detroit. They're not Princeton but very underrated. They've been an anchor for that area, though not perfect, and I am sorry to hear their students will now pay the price for the development.
The new building is for the entire business school, not just the MBA program. Your claims about "the student body is upset about the project, many with children, almost all with full time jobs, and most classes at night" are pure exaggerations as usual.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bham1982
How does a one mile difference between the main campus and the b-school "add a significant commute time" and make "a 40 minute commute into a 90 minute commute"?
Also, there is nothing out there backing up your claim about cost overruns. WSU says their Farmington Hills center closed because of partnerships with Schoolcraft and OCC.
Furthermore, Detroiters make up 11% of Wayne State's Michigan enrollment.
That would have been a perfect location for the new B School. It would have satisfied urbanists and suburbanites, and current students would obviously be fine with same location but new facility.Quote:
Originally Posted by poobert
The only way the new facility isn't a net negative is if you work right downtown. For everyone else [[and keep in mind the MBA program is dominated by people in logistics, working for suppliers, etc.; aka sprawl-jobs), your degree just got more expensive and difficult.
This is all pretty much off-topic nonsense and lack of reading comprehension. Not gonna bother with point-by-point refutation of garbage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Towne Cluber
Do you work for the Illitches or something? You seem to have a cult-like veneration of anything related to the Illitches.
You are a very sick person. You hate everything and 75%-80% of the claims that you make are completely made up nonsense. Almost every one of your post on here is some kind of [[poorly) thinly-veiled attempt to smear the people, places, and institutions of Detroit, Michigan, the Midwest, and the United States -- while trying to portray yourself as some kind of elite, highly-educated, and sophisticated person -- which you are certainly not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bham1982
Actually WSU went on the record in a Detroit news or free press article saying that the business school was going to be built with out without the donation.Quote:
Originally Posted by NSortzi
My money is on #1. The same thing happened to Joe Robbie's family [[owner of the Miami Dolphins), and they never recovered, losing the team.Quote:
Originally Posted by SammyS
Why build it where it is? To understand this, you need to think of the main talent of Olympia. It isn't neighborhood development that's their forte, though -- it's corporate welfare artistry.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bham1982
Baked into the agreement for public backing of the bonds and the stadium was a side agreement about "spinoff development." If the Ilitches could cause $200 million in ancillary development within the district within the first five years of the first event at LCA, they would reap a $67 million windfall from the DDA.
Back when all these deals were being hammered out, there was an understanding that this meant that Olympia would be courting Class A urban developers to turn the stadium district into a thriving neighborhood. Gov. Snyder had said of the deal, "It’s something that hopefully will be a tax-base generator. Not the arena as much per se, but all the surrounding development.”
But as you add up the "spinoff development," it begins to seem that the Olympia people already knew they were going to cause $200 million in development to appear, but not in the way many had thought.
As I understand it -- and I'm a little foggy on some of the details -- the Ilitch organization announced plans to build Little Caesar's $150 million headquarters on the district's land. The DDA has also accepted their $24 million parking garage as counting toward the "spinoff development" goal. That still left them about $26 million short.
The missing piece would seem to be the $40 million gift to Wayne State University. The [[presumably tax-deductible) gift would likely put them over the top, allowing them to receive the $67 million bonus.
But only as long as it was located within the district.
I'm no big-city lawyer, but it seems to me that the organization had already thrown a dart against the wall, and then drew a bull's-eye around it. When you know you want to build a new HQ anyway, and want to build a money-making parking garage, and you figure you can deduct another donation against your taxes by persuading the university to locate there, you have gamed the public through DDA agreements and tax-deductible write-offs into quietly subsidizing your new HQ.
Unfortunately, yes, the students will have a difficult or expensive task if they want to park near the school. But I believe this was never about their convenience. It was about wringing the most money possible out of these gold-plated "development deals."
As a former WSU student [[late 1980's) I clearly remember PAYING EVERDAY that I parked in the WSU parking structure - for 4 years - along with thousands of other students.
Rough estimates -- Wayne State has 27,500 students at the campus:17,000 undergraduate students, with 8,000 graduate students
and another 2,000 "professional students" .
Nice analysis - I think you're right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Detroitnerd
There is some activity going going on in the retail portion of the Fox where Johnny Rockets used to be. When I walked by yesterday I noticed the space which had been used as offices was gone and it looks like something new is going in there. I hope it is something of good quality.
There's a news article out there somewhere but from what I remember its a Cuban restaurant and an "M" DenQuote:
Originally Posted by DetroitSoldier
A few months ago I was driving around the area and I approached LCA from the east. It legit startled me as I was driving through blocks of nothing and suddenly, there's the arena! When they announced District Detroit, it sounded cool but I never had the expectation that it would be built all in one fell swoop. You'd expect that it would be a ripple effect, growing outward from the arena itself. I think the issue is that you would have expected those first ripples to have appeared [[or at least been planned out) yet it seems that hasn't happened. I know the arena is only a year old, but for an arena that's supposed to be filled with activity 150-200 nights per year, that initial push should have been going on alongside the arena itself, and probably would have in many other cities. So the fact that it's a year since opening and they barely have a shovel in the ground on this vision, it's extremely disappointing. And, the critics are right, the Illitches are first in line to receive the blame for this.
It takes time to come from a plan to executing that plan. I’m sure they knew one thing about district detrout. It would have the hockey arena a school and a corporate headquarters. I have no trouble thinking that as detrout improves so will this neighborhood. The district is a dream that can be realized but it’s a bit in the vapors right now. Stay tuned for exciting things.
interesting comparison to see how Milwaukee is pursing ancillary development around their new arena. time will tell if any of it pans out. note the new arena is next to a 30-story luxury apt tower.
https://www.jsonline.com/story/money...se/3149341002/
https://www.gannett-cdn.com/presto/2...unds&auto=webp
Quote:
Here's a block-by-block breakdown of what Head of the Herd envisions. Each block would include parking structures.
• The former Bradley Center block, between State Street, Phillips Avenue and new portions of Highland Avenue and Fifth Street that will be constructed.
A 10-story, 226-room hotel with a banquet center would anchor this block, which would include a two-level cinema, around 28,000 square feet of retail/restaurant space and 33 apartments on three floors.
• The former Bradley Center parking structure block, just west of the former Bradley Center block.
This block would feature around 106,000 square feet of offices on five floors, 19,000 square feet of retail/restaurant space and 58 apartments on five floors.
• The Park East block bordered by Old World Third Street, Phillips Avenue, Juneau Avenue and McKinley Boulevard.
This site would be primarily for residential use, with 233 apartments on 15 floors. It also would have around 34,000 square feet of retail/restaurant space, including a grocery store.
• The Park East block just to the west of the apartments and grocery store site.
Office space would be this parcel's main use, with around 304,000 square feet on 15 floors planned. The block also would have a seven-story, 200-room hotel and 14,000 square feet of retail/restaurant space.
Didn't your name used to be Steve?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Carver
By the way the freep Tigers beat writer Anthony Fenech had an interview on his podcast with the Crain's writer who wrote the piece about the District failing to live up to promises. I found it interesting that a Tigers beat writer would actually be interviewing this guy.
https://www.freep.com/story/sports/m...ts/3137993002/
We've been waiting 25 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Carver
An artist's rendition of what COULD be is made of smoke and mirrors
How long has 'Johnny Rockets' been closed? I suspect there will be business school grads who were in diapers when it was last open.Quote:
Originally Posted by DetroitSoldier
You guys, have some patience! The Ilitches are TOTALLY going to make good on all the district promises. They just need to finish up the open-air market [[or Agora as they called it) and apartments they promised as part of the Comerica Park development first. I mean how many developments do you expect them to work on in just a handful of decades?
10 years agoQuote:
Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch
Hahaha!! Like your subtle humor.... that Comerica Park Agora was supposed to include a Hard Rock Cafe... and those plans are now 20 years old, replaced by a new market concept with those fabulous [[kidding) festoon lighting... :pQuote:
Originally Posted by detmsp
I wrote to you all on another thread that Mike Illitch and his family are NOT venture real estate capitalists.They are here in Detroit overseeing the progress of Tigers and the Red Wings games, LCA, Their Pizza Pizza Building on Woodward, Keeping the Fox Theater a float. The rest will sit out, rot and become parking lots.
The Illitches are like Dennis Kellifinos, SCUMBAGS!!! slumlords. Dan Gilbert is REAL "Donald Trump-like" venture capitalist and a next corporate raider of Detroit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by poobert
I'm sorry if a bit late but couldn't help myself thanking you for this post. Very funny, and true.
However, like many people who contributed to this thread, you don't seem to "grasp" how beautiful a surface parking lot can be.
Chris Ilitch showed his true colors back in 2005 when the Madison-Lenox was razed. Richard Moe of the National Trust For Historic Preservation tried to contact him that year, but Chris never returned his calls.
So the National Trust put the United Artists Building on the cover of their next quarterly magazine, and they were shamed nationally back then, when the windows were all painted with graffiti and the theatre was open to scavengers.
Progress is not always in the "preservation" mode.
It steamrolls forward with each tick-tock of the second hand.
If you are an Ilitch, then Steamrolling is the method of choice... but if you are a Gilbert, a Forbes, Ford, etc... then you see the wisdom in preservation.Quote:
Originally Posted by O3H
I have noticed lights on inside the Eddystone the last few days. Should I read anything into this? I will certainly not be holding my breath.
No clue either... but I can see some possible scenarios... such as City Council telling the Mayor to either have the Ilitch's start living up to their promises, or we will start investigating the agreements between the city and Ilitch's and see if there are any escape clauses for continuing to use public funds to pay off the Arena.Quote:
Originally Posted by DetroitSoldier
Maybe also City Council could pass an ordinance to prevent any closure of public streets or on street parking during game days. Lots of things like that could put a fire under the Ilitch's to finally START to live up to their commitments.
At least Moroun sold the MCS so Ford could develop the station... the Ilitch's haven't even sold a single damn building or parcel of land since they bought the Fox 31 years ago. :[[