What is going on at Red Wings arena site?

**emu steve** · September-14-15, 06:49 AM

Originally Posted by gvidas

Gistok, great point. Maybe if this happens some of the magic sauce will spill a little bit west too, and Temple-Grand River-M10 won't be such a nightmare of an intersection.

I imagine so, since it's really hard to get from westbound temple to motor city right now.

I think a bigger question is emptying the new parking deck [[on Park/Cass) etc of folks who wish to go north to Temple and then toward the Lodge.

also, folks might wish to turn right onto Temple to get to Northbound Woodward.

temple isn't wide enough to handle thousands of cars after a hockey game.

i can see real problems with gridlock.

**mikeg19** · September-14-15, 11:52 AM

Originally Posted by emu steve

I think a bigger question is emptying the new parking deck [[on Park/Cass) etc of folks who wish to go north to Temple and then toward the Lodge.

also, folks might wish to turn right onto Temple to get to Northbound Woodward.

temple isn't wide enough to handle thousands of cars after a hockey game.

i can see real problems with gridlock.

While I completely agree with you on this, anyone who actually parks at the venue, whether it be JLA, Ford Field, or Comerica is a dope. Why pay $24, $40, $50 to park there when you can park at a local bar/restaurant and take a shuttle for free? Shuttle takes you to and fro, plus you avoid the jam.A little off topic, but still.....

**emu steve** · October-01-15, 01:23 PM

http://www.freep.com/story/money/bus...alow/73142954/

**emu steve** · October-01-15, 02:49 PM

Detnews article by Louis Aguilar:

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/bus...tour/73140018/

One take away is that work is to begin soon on the new headquarters building at Woodwood/Columbia and that work continues on the lease of property to build apartments where surface parking lots are adjacent to Comerica Park.

No surprise at all. Those two projects are physically separated from the arena and the only consequence of doing them is a reduction in surface parking around Comerica.

I can't imagine any work being done on the Eddystone until the new arena has been mostly finished on the exterior.

**mikeg19** · October-02-15, 06:48 AM

Originally Posted by emu steve

Detnews article by Louis Aguilar:

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/bus...tour/73140018/

One take away is that work is to begin soon on the new headquarters building at Woodwood/Columbia and that work continues on the lease of property to build apartments where surface parking lots are adjacent to Comerica Park.

No surprise at all. Those two projects are physically separated from the arena and the only consequence of doing them is a reduction in surface parking around Comerica.

I can't imagine any work being done on the Eddystone until the new arena has been mostly finished on the exterior.

I'm curious to understand why the land deal with the church is taking so long to negotiate. I thought that'd be a fairly simple deal to make happen.

There is an interesting point though. Between those apartments, the new LC headquarters, and Eddystone, you've got about $100M investment there. That hardly puts a dent in reinventing 45 blocks of land with hotels, residences, commercial space, etc. Are they planning on spending more money to make that come to fruition? Kinda curious to see what else is going to happen there. I'd think to truly redevelop that amount of land would be well over that $200M figure.

**emu steve** · October-02-15, 02:58 PM

Originally Posted by mikeg19

I'm curious to understand why the land deal with the church is taking so long to negotiate. I thought that'd be a fairly simple deal to make happen.

There is an interesting point though. Between those apartments, the new LC headquarters, and Eddystone, you've got about $100M investment there. That hardly puts a dent in reinventing 45 blocks of land with hotels, residences, commercial space, etc. Are they planning on spending more money to make that come to fruition? Kinda curious to see what else is going to happen there. I'd think to truly redevelop that amount of land would be well over that $200M figure.

200M is a start. It doesn't buy much if one building is a new office building.

I conceive of the 200M as a down payment [[or seed money) on the whole area with the rest of the development and who does it and whose money, TBD.

I've always maintained that the success of the area will not be determined by the Ilitiches but what OTHERS buy into doing.

I've always believed that the Ilitches have only promised, otherwise, to build an [[additional) office building at Woodward/Sproat or Temple? Maybe a few parking garages. A building with rooftop seating beyond the right field wall by Comerica.

Tossing out crazy guesses but that might be a total of $150M itself, leaving say 50M 'must spend' dollars. Maybe some of that 50M goes 'west of Cass' in the area where the Ilitches have bought property.

A hotel at Woodward/Fisher will be someone else project and money.

**Dan_the_man** · October-07-15, 12:39 PM

The Illitch's don't have to be the ones to spend the $200 million, they just have to cause it to happen, so if they get someone else to build a hotel, it counts. They also don't have to spend the $200 Million, it isn't required, but if they do, they will get a pretty decent chunk of money back as an incentive.

**emu steve** · October-07-15, 08:25 PM

Originally Posted by Dan_the_man

The Illitch's don't have to be the ones to spend the $200 million, they just have to cause it to happen, so if they get someone else to build a hotel, it counts. They also don't have to spend the $200 Million, it isn't required, but if they do, they will get a pretty decent chunk of money back as an incentive.

Are you sure?

It was always my understanding that they had to spend 200M+ themselves, exclusive of any other monies spent...

**emu steve** · October-07-15, 08:28 PM

This is O/T, but I'll toss it out, nevertheless.

Here is a story on eminent domain in D.C. which was used for both the Nationals Park and last week against a holdout land owner for a new stadium for D.C. United [[soccer).

http://www.bizjournals.com/washingto...dium-site.html

For those into 'What ifs', I assume that the new hockey arena would have been started a number of years ago and behind the Fox if eminent domain was available for Detroit.

We'll see if, in the long run, that the Woodward site will lead to a much wider development area [[I think so).

I don't think the Fox site would have caused much development to occur north of the Fisher.

**Jason** · October-07-15, 08:31 PM

Yeah I believe that is correct. They have to spend that money themselves.

Although I wouldn't be surprised if the integrated mixed use portions of the arena counted towards and covered that amount.

**emu steve** · October-08-15, 04:05 AM

Originally Posted by Jason

Yeah I believe that is correct. They have to spend that money themselves.

Although I wouldn't be surprised if the integrated mixed use portions of the arena counted towards and covered that amount.

What I'm not clear on is not so much the team offices, team shop, etc. but the other residential housing ringing the arena.

I believe the team offices, team shop, etc. are part of the arena, per se. Ditto the parking deck.

I'm less sure about the housing. I've always assumed that everything in those few square blocks is considered arena.

**MSUguy** · October-08-15, 07:11 AM

Originally Posted by emu steve

Are you sure?

It was always my understanding that they had to spend 200M+ themselves, exclusive of any other monies spent...

Dan is correct the $200m is what they must or induce others to spend in the area.

**emu steve** · October-08-15, 10:49 AM

Originally Posted by MSUguy

Dan is correct the $200m is what they must or induce others to spend in the area.

Wow, I didn't know that and it is a pretty low bar.

As discussed here many times, Ilitiches are publicly committed to building a new headquarters, apartments around Comerica, parking deck for the arena, I believe an office building at Sproat/Woodward, the housing ringing the new arena, presumably a new parking deck behind St. Johns, a parking deck at Henry and Clifford, etc. Plus get others to build a hotel at Woodward/Henry. And probably more projects which haven't been publicly announced.

Clearly all of that will exceed 200M.

The Ilitches have been buying up property all over the arena area between Cass and the Lodge so they aren't simply going to meet the 'minimum' requirements.

**MSUguy** · October-08-15, 12:51 PM

Originally Posted by emu steve

Wow, I didn't know that and it is a pretty low bar.

As discussed here many times, Ilitiches are publicly committed to building a new headquarters, apartments around Comerica, parking deck for the arena, I believe an office building at Sproat/Woodward, the housing ringing the new arena, presumably a new parking deck behind St. Johns, a parking deck at Henry and Clifford, etc. Plus get others to build a hotel at Woodward/Henry. And probably more projects which haven't been publicly announced.

Clearly all of that will exceed 200M.

The Ilitches have been buying up property all over the arena area between Cass and the Lodge so they aren't simply going to meet the 'minimum' requirements.

While they will probably exceeded that, they haven't committed to 200m. Only three projects have been announced the Fox Theater office addition, Woodward residential and the Eddystone. Anything as part of arena complex doesn't count.

**Gistok** · October-08-15, 02:08 PM

I bet that the Life Building and Blenheim Apts. on Park Ave., the Moose Lodge on Cass Ave., the UA Complex on Bagley Ave. and the Fine Arts Building facade on W. Adams [[GCP) and the Eddystone... would consume $200 million. Those existing historic buildings NEED to be addressed....

**bust** · October-08-15, 03:44 PM

I expect little more from the Ilitches than their arena, parking lots, and wider streets to speed suburbanites to the expressways and their casino. Aside from the Fox, that's pretty much all they've delivered except blight in their decades of history in Detroit. It's disgusting they tried to escape a contractual obligation to renovate the Eddystone, and I'm grateful to the city council for catching that. Without a legal obligation I expect nothing from them. And I expect them to try to weasel out of every legal obligation they don't want to fulfill if they can.

This opinion is informed by their past actions. I question the motivations of those who want to obscure those facts.

**Dbest** · October-08-15, 04:20 PM

Originally Posted by bust

I expect little more from the Ilitches than their arena, parking lots, and wider streets to speed suburbanites to the expressways and their casino. Aside from the Fox, that's pretty much all they've delivered except blight in their decades of history in Detroit. It's disgusting they tried to escape a contractual obligation to renovate the Eddystone, and I'm grateful to the city council for catching that. Without a legal obligation I expect nothing from them. And I expect them to try to weasel out of every legal obligation they don't want to fulfill if they can.

This opinion is informed by their past actions. I question the motivations of those who want to obscure those facts.

Well put, I'd say you're entitled to your opinion and I tend to agree.

**mikeg19** · October-09-15, 06:01 AM

Originally Posted by bust

I expect little more from the Ilitches than their arena, parking lots, and wider streets to speed suburbanites to the expressways and their casino. Aside from the Fox, that's pretty much all they've delivered except blight in their decades of history in Detroit. It's disgusting they tried to escape a contractual obligation to renovate the Eddystone, and I'm grateful to the city council for catching that. Without a legal obligation I expect nothing from them. And I expect them to try to weasel out of every legal obligation they don't want to fulfill if they can.

This opinion is informed by their past actions. I question the motivations of those who want to obscure those facts.

Yea, but, were getting a new stadium......with seat cup holders.....so I'd say this is a win.

**1953** · October-09-15, 10:08 AM

There will be cup holders? Oh, now you've won me over.

1953

**emu steve** · October-09-15, 10:23 AM

Originally Posted by bust

I expect little more from the Ilitches than their arena, parking lots, and wider streets to speed suburbanites to the expressways and their casino. Aside from the Fox, that's pretty much all they've delivered except blight in their decades of history in Detroit. It's disgusting they tried to escape a contractual obligation to renovate the Eddystone, and I'm grateful to the city council for catching that. Without a legal obligation I expect nothing from them. And I expect them to try to weasel out of every legal obligation they don't want to fulfill if they can.

This opinion is informed by their past actions. I question the motivations of those who want to obscure those facts.

Guys [[and gals):

Why condemn someone for something which has not had its day of reckoning?

As best I can tell, they are on schedule for the arena, planning to begin soon on the new headquarters building, have concrete plans for apartments across from Comerica.

By next April, I'd assume we'll see THREE substantial NEW projects in the works.

Three in D.C. would be nothing unusual.

THREE NEW Buildings in Detroit isn't quite a 'Brother Dominic" miracle but still pretty good given how few new buildings are built in the city.

Someday we'll need an new buildings index: New buildings built by Ilitches divided by total number of new building built.

E.g., if in 1917, 12 major new buildings are completed and 8 are Ilitch projects that would be an 67% score which would be very impressive.

**Zads07** · October-09-15, 01:15 PM

Originally Posted by emu steve

Guys [[and gals):

Why condemn someone for something which has not had its day of reckoning?

As best I can tell, they are on schedule for the arena, planning to begin soon on the new headquarters building, have concrete plans for apartments across from Comerica.

By next April, I'd assume we'll see THREE substantial NEW projects in the works.

Three in D.C. would be nothing unusual.

THREE NEW Buildings in Detroit isn't quite a 'Brother Dominic" miracle but still pretty good given how few new buildings are built in the city.

Someday we'll need an new buildings index: New buildings built by Ilitches divided by total number of new building built.

E.g., if in 1917, 12 major new buildings are completed and 8 are Ilitch projects that would be an 67% score which would be very impressive.

Are you high? I mean seriously, I don't think those people on this blog are being negative, they're just trying to point how what Ilitch has does in the past, nothing, and compare that to his promises now. How you keep defending him and bringing up D.C. is beyond me, beyond anyone, but hey, there always needs to be one believer right? Keep those hopes up because it might be all you have when the arena is said and done.

**DetroiterOnTheWestCoast** · October-09-15, 01:23 PM

Originally Posted by Zads07

Are you high? I mean seriously, I don't think those people on this blog are being negative, they're just trying to point how what Ilitch has does in the past, nothing, and compare that to his promises now. How you keep defending him and bringing up D.C. is beyond me, beyond anyone, but hey, there always needs to be one believer right? Keep those hopes up because it might be all you have when the arena is said and done.

And Charlie Brown always thought Lucy would let him kick the football. Hope springs eternal.

**emu steve** · October-09-15, 01:54 PM

Originally Posted by Zads07

Are you high? I mean seriously, I don't think those people on this blog are being negative, they're just trying to point how what Ilitch has does in the past, nothing, and compare that to his promises now. How you keep defending him and bringing up D.C. is beyond me, beyond anyone, but hey, there always needs to be one believer right? Keep those hopes up because it might be all you have when the arena is said and done.

Okay, I could have said three buildings in NYC. Make you happy?

RE: Buildings Ilitches promise to build:

As Mitt Romney said to Rick Perry [[2012): "Want to bet 10,000 dollars?"

There is no doubt in my mind that he will build an arena, new headquarters building, parking deck by the arena, apartments by Comerica, do Eddystone, few parking decks off of Clifford by Henry and Montcalm, etc.