Osama Bin Laden Is Dead

[jcole]

You are correct. Obama had no legal obligation to be transparent. He had every right to be as arrogant and nontransparent as legally possible.

Can you please point out to me another President that was required to present us with his long form birth certificate and his college and graduate school credentials? Do we require the disclosure of SAT scores too? What about baptismal records?

[Whitehouse]

Classic!! [[via Boingboing.)

[firstandten]

You are correct. Obama had no legal obligation to be transparent. He had every right to be as arrogant and nontransparent as legally possible. He promised to be transparent though. As President, Obama has proven himself to be generally inept whether the measure is employment, national debt, national deficit, upholding the value of the dollar, forclosure rates, ending rather than expanding expensive wars, or maintaining our standard of living. It's his record that has proven him unfit for office. The same could be said of Bush. Both had Ivy League degrees. So what?

I guess we need to determine your standard for transparency. I would maintain that you as well as the other birthers out there have an unreasonable standard for transparency which borders into invasion of privacy.

As far as your other points, the policy issues are fair game as I stated as they should be. I disagree with most of them but I will save my points for later posts.

Bush is an ivy leaguer but he's also a legacy and he had an mediocre at best record in college so there is no way I would compare Bush with Obama and Clinton when it comes to educational accomplishments.

They should both have been impeached. All I wrote was, "Kucinich claims Obama's adventure in Libya is an impeachable offense." Thank you for making my point. Dropping bombs on a sovereign nation is an act of war no matter how much lipstick the administration puts on the pig. Our bombs kill people for humanitarian reasons?

For that matter you can get impeached for getting a BJ and lying about it. The important thing is does it go to trial and you get convicted as a result. With the last declared war being WW II then a lot of presidents should have been impeached. That was the point I was trying to make.

I didn't say it was the only reason but it is a significant reason. Measured against a basket of currencies the US dollar has declined from 86 to 73 since July. That, by itself, reduces the dollar's spending power by 15%. An $85 barrel of oil now costs us $100 just on the basis of a weaker dollar caused by expanding liquidity and monetizing the debt. it didn't work so well in Zimbabwe or the Weimar Republic either .

Maybe it wasn't the only reason, but you made it seem like it in your initial post with your wording . I think Maxx hit it more on the head with his post

.

Without the Community Organizer in Chief, NATO would not be involved. It shouldn't matter though because only Congress can declare wars. I don't care what Obama's 'legal experts' say. The Constitution is explicit. Congress declares wars; not the President.

Again we can nitpick on the definition of a war my point is Obama hasn't done anything more or less than any president since FDR when it comes to military engagements.

[oladub]

Can you please point out to me another President that was required to present us with his long form birth certificate and his college and graduate school credentials? Do we require the disclosure of SAT scores too? What about baptismal records?

The President is not required to either present a copy of his birth certificate or college records. The issue was whether President Obama was a 'natural born' citizen. It wasn't until he finally came up with a copy of the long form that we even knew in which hospital he was born in and had a couple of signatures so stating. Had the President come forth with this information when the former Democratic district attorney general of PA brought this up three years ago, this would have been less of an issue. Instead, the President chose to be non-transparent. There are still unanswered questions about the President's college years. What , for instance, was obama doing in pakistan in 1981 while he was a struggling college student. Who paid for that? How was his elite $300,000 private education paid for? Interesting stuff. I'm not a Democrat so I can ask questions. Of course, I even think St.Thomas got a bad wrap for wanting a higher level of proof than just believing everyone in the room. If you were hiring a scientist, would you hire the guy that goes with the flow or the guy who wants hard evidence?

That is not the topic of this thread though. We have been shown official pictures of rooms in Pakistan with blood on the floor and are told that the administration will probably be offering at least one picture of Osama's body and another of a body being rolled off deck into the ocean to further substantiate it's story that Osama was killed a few days ago. I think Osama was killed a few days ago but the hasty ocean dump without the press or significant other third parties being witness to Osama's body was possibly a bad move.

[ghettopalmetto]

There are still unanswered questions about the President's college years. What , for instance, was obama doing in pakistan in 1981 while he was a struggling college student. Who paid for that? How was his elite $300,000 private education paid for? Interesting stuff. I'm not a Democrat so I can ask questions.

Aren't you one of those libertarians who wants to the government to stop intruding into his life?

Seems like you're throwing plenty of stones at glass houses, aren't ya there, Oladub?

If this is "interesting stuff" to you, might I suggest you take up a few hobbies? You know, other than perfecting your blatant hypocrisy.

[oladub]

firstandten: I guess we need to determine your standard for transparency. I would maintain that you as well as the other birthers out there have an unreasonable standard for transparency which borders into invasion of privacy.

As far as your other points, the policy issues are fair game as I stated as they should be. I disagree with most of them but I will save my points for later posts.

Bush is an ivy leaguer but he's also a legacy and he had an mediocre at best record in college so there is no way I would compare Bush with Obama and Clinton when it comes to educational accomplishments.

I took the position of an agnostic rather than a birther. I never claimed to know in which hospital little Barack was born in and if you go back through my posts, you will find that I leaned toward his blessed birth being in Hawaii because the circumstantial evidence was stronger than the birthers' claims that he was born in Kenya.

Transparancy is what the President promised. He fell short of of his own standard. Politicians lead public lives and even have to reveal their income. Nixon had to hand over tape recordings of private conversations in the White House. Obama should not exempted from the same standards.

For that matter you can get impeached for getting a BJ and lying about it. The important thing is does it go to trial and you get convicted as a result. With the last declared war being WW II then a lot of presidents should have been impeached. That was the point I was trying to make.

Maybe it wasn't the only reason, but you made it seem like it in your initial post with your wording . I think Maxx hit it more on the head with his post

Again we can nitpick on the definition of a war my point is Obama hasn't done anything more or less than any president since FDR when it comes to military engagements.

I agree, the other presidents were out of line too. Two or more wrongs don't make it right. Obama went a step further by not even consulting Congress about starting his own stupid war.I think that what kucinich objected to.

.

[jcole]

My point is why did he need to be any more transparent than any other president? He supplied a birth certificate that is considered sufficient and legal in his home state; that should have been the end of the matter.
To put it more clearly, who cares what the DA in PA wanted? He was vetted before the election and supplied the required documents; that's all that has been required before and he should have been left alone to deal with more important matters. And, as I don't believe that college graduation, or for that matter attendance, is required to be POTUS, why should he be required to give proof of grades or attendance? If there was a college requirement, I'm sure that his transcripts would have been attained.

The President is not required to either present a copy of his birth certificate or college records. The issue was whether President Obama was a 'natural born' citizen. It wasn't until he finally came up with a copy of the long form that we even knew in which hospital he was born in and had a couple of signatures so stating. Had the President come forth with this information when the former Democratic district attorney general of PA brought this up three years ago, this would have been less of an issue. Instead, the President chose to be non-transparent. There are still unanswered questions about the President's college years. What , for instance, was obama doing in pakistan in 1981 while he was a struggling college student. Who paid for that? How was his elite $300,000 private education paid for? Interesting stuff. I'm not a Democrat so I can ask questions. Of course, I even think St.Thomas got a bad wrap for wanting a higher level of proof than just believing everyone in the room. If you were hiring a scientist, would you hire the guy that goes with the flow or the guy who wants hard evidence?

That is not the topic of this thread though. We have been shown official pictures of rooms in Pakistan with blood on the floor and are told that the administration will probably be offering at least one picture of Osama's body and another of a body being rolled off deck into the ocean to further substantiate it's story that Osama was killed a few days ago. I think Osama was killed a few days ago but the hasty ocean dump without the press or significant other third parties being witness to Osama's body was possibly a bad move.

[gnome]

and now back to bin laden ...

If Osama was half smart, and there is ample evidence he was very sharp, I'll bet ya he recorded messages for broadcast in the event of his demise. Moreover, a smart guy would record messages that rebuke the rumor of his death. A smart guy would taunt the Americans with a hardy, "na na na you missed me".

The reason to pull this gag would be to tap the skeptical humans who delight in buying into all manner of conspiracies. As we have witnessed here really smart folk lap up all sorts theories; be they birther schemes, Oswald/CIA/Cuban/mafia links, mind-control contrails, 911 Truthers, Bigfoot or BubbaHo-Tep.

When do you think we'll hear from brother Osama?

[Ray1936]

Responses of excessive length rarely get read.

[Whitehouse]

Responses of excessive length rarely get read.

Your's did.

Meanwhile, impressive announcement of OBL's death by free fighter John Cena during an event that very night.

[Downriviera]

and now back to bin laden ...

If Osama was half smart, and there is able evidence he was very sharp, I'll bet ya he recorded messages for broadcast in the event of his demise. Moreover, a smart guy would record messages that rebuke the rumor of his death. A smart guy would taunt the Americans with a hardy, "na na na you missed me".

The reason to pull this gag would be to tap the skeptical humans who delight in buying into all manner of conspiracies. As we have witnessed here really smart folk lap up all sorts theories; be they birther schemes, Oswald/CIA/Cuban/mafia links, mind-control contrails, 911 Truthers, Bigfoot or BubbaHo-Tep.

When do you think we'll hear from brother Osama?

I was thinking the same thing. And if he was real smart he would have had a basement hiding room with an escape tunnel. Staying in the same place for so long he had to know the Seals would come a calling one day.

[maxx]

We like to say that we are a nation of laws, but there is no due process in assassination.

[Meddle]

The President is not required to either present a copy of his birth certificate or college records.

Dude, NOBODY cares.

This thread isn't about that even if anybody did.

[firstandten]

I was thinking the same thing. And if he was real smart he would have had a basement hiding room with an escape tunnel. Staying in the same place for so long he had to know the Seals would come a calling one day.

He may have had a basement hiding room, we don't have that information yet. The attack may have completely surprised him and he was unable to get past his bedroom. Hiding in plain sight especially after putting it out there that he was running from cave to cave seemed to work for him for a long time.

[Pam]

In 2008, one journalist predicted his location:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-ySteY3r9I

[firstandten]

After thinking about this some and watching some old Bush statements on Bin Ladin, I think that its not that Bush couldn't find Bin Ladin, I don't think he wanted to find Bin Ladin.

Its been stated before that Bush needed to have the US in a state of war in order to effectively govern and to get his agenda thru Congress. To find and kill Bin Ladin would have taken all his reasons for waging war away from him.

Bush was doing the politically expedient thing for himself and his party and not doing the right thing for America.

And now can you believe it some of the folks on the right and Fox news are trying to equalize the praise that Obama is getting by throwing Bush's name out there.

Trust me if the plan had failed it would have been Obama getting all the blame.

[Big Dog]

1st and 10. Your post is right on. Kudos

[eriedearie]

MizMotown - Then you and I have been singing a duet and you didn't even know it! When I first heard that he was killed - that's the tune that came to my mind; just changed a word or two here and there. Title is: Ding-Dong The Ba$tard'$ Dead.

Somewhere back in this thread someone mentioned wrapping his body in pig skin. My thought was along the same line - stuff him with the crunchy snack of pork rinds.

But that's just me - oh well. Guess it's a good thing I'm not in charge of things, eh?

[Big Dog]

Under republican rule, "Ding Dong, the middleclass is dead".

[gnome]

Under republican rule, "Ding Dong, the middleclass is dead".

And what exactly does that have to do with bin laden?

[Jimaz]

Olbermann: GOP narrative of Obama is ‘as dead as bin Laden’

[Searay215]

Bin Ladens body is in the ocean, once again, surounded by seals......

[Whitehouse]

[vetalalumni]

I guess we need to determine your standard for transparency. I would maintain that you as well as the other birthers out there have an unreasonable standard for transparency which borders into invasion of privacy.

...

Bush is an ivy leaguer but he's also a legacy and he had an mediocre at best record in college so there is no way I would compare Bush with Obama and Clinton when it comes to educational accomplishments.

The definition of transparency was qualified in the context of administration. Conspiracy theories intrigue the suspicious, but they are only theories. Innocent until proven guilty. The onus is upon the accusers to present and prove a case. Not appropriately conceding when accusations are disproven reveals ill intent of the accuser.

Jack Cashill challenges the bona fides of President Obama in his book "Deconstructing Obama: The Life, Loves, and Letters of America's First Postmodern President". Trump agrees.

[Big Dog]

Gnome, Just some honest mockery of the previous Ding Dong post. Nothing more, nothing less.