State of Emergency/White Nationalist Protest in Virginia

[Maof]

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/...rginia-n792021

[Maof]

Apparently, the red wings have made a statement regarding the use of their logo.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2...rginia-marches

[Richard]

The counter protesters would probably have a heart attack on the spot if they went to the Deep South and saw the faded remnants of colored only signs above the bathrooms and drinking fountains.

But I am with them,I think we need a special armed force to go city by city and forcibly remove all of the things that we do not agree with or that offends us.Maybe they can wear brown uniforms with red arm bands so they are easily recognized.

We really need to cleanse this country of all traces of injustice so future generations have the same opportunity to repeat the past.

A few months back there was a historical piece about a 5th generation plantation house owner that was working to restore it.

Over 3000 comments,95% of the comments were discussing how to sue the currant owner for reparations of the past.

30 years in Orlando and 5 of that was living across the street from the park where there was a statue of a confederate general,it never even crossed my mind that my ancestors died in the civil war to free the slaves and it offended me,it was there,I saw it and never really gave it much thought after that.

In Tampa 7 years now and they removed the one here and are changing the names of schools,I never even really noticed the statue and probably walked past it twice in 7 years.

Maybe I am weird,I figure if something offends me it may not offend somebody else who has the same right to be offended as I would to not be offended.

[jcole]

Are you honestly defending these racists and Nazis? Unbelievable.

[Maof]

And the buffoon says the "hatred, bigotry and violence is from many sides." What!? Why won't be condemn the ones who started this violent protest? Oh wait, he was endorsed by the KKK and David Duke says he wants to fulfill Drumpf's agenda.

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

Are you honestly defending these racists and Nazis? Unbelievable.

I guess he just can't see why anyone would be offended by statues erected to honor men who fought to preserve slavery. I, on the other hand, think it's really quite apparent. The was no honor in the cause of the Confederacy.

[Richard]

Are you honestly defending these racists and Nazis? Unbelievable.

I am not defending anybody,I posted that we need a national force to remove everything and anybody from this country that we do not agree with.

All we need to do is pick one set of standards that equally apply to everybody.

Any suggestions?

Is not the whole thing about forcing ones will apoun others?

So how do we resolve that ? By forcing ones will apoun others.

We have not learned a thing.

[Jimaz]

...Is not the whole thing about forcing ones will apounupon others?

So how do we resolve that ? By forcing ones will apounupon others.
....

No. It is not that. Why do you not know that "forcing one's will upon others" is not "the whole thing"?

hi, i'm steve

[Richard]

Some of the statues have been there 130 years and now they are a problem,I guess it is kinda like when ISIS removed/destroyed all the mosques and historical elements.

I guess the every American has rights is a lost concept and maybe we should change it to every American has rights as long as we,as an individual,is not offended by it or it represents something that we as an individual does not agree with.

We slaughtered the Indians but retain the translations to name our cities.
The Chinese,Polish,Germans,Italians and every other poor immigrants were inslaved to build the railroads.

So now in all fairness we need to change the names of our cities and remove the railroads,the north is not exempt so we need to also start tearing down the buildings that were built useing slave labor.

Sounds crazy I know but where is and what is the end result?

Jimaz,I realize that for some reason you feel the need to correct my spelling and pronunciation,as a fellow American,if that is what flips your trigger,then I respect that and will allow you to continue to do so,even though it means nothing to me personally,I understand that it means something to you.

[Canadian Visitor]

Some of the statues have been there 130 years and now they are a problem,I guess it is kinda like when ISIS removed/destroyed all the mosques and historical elements.

I guess the every American has rights is a lost concept and maybe we should change it to every American has rights as long as we,as an individual,is not offended by it or it represents something that we as an individual does not agree with.

We slaughtered the Indians but retain the translations to name our cities.
The Chinese,Polish,Germans,Italians and every other poor immigrants were inslaved to build the railroads.

So now in all fairness we need to change the names of our cities and remove the railroads,the north is not exempt so we need to also start tearing down the buildings that were built useing slave labor.

Sounds crazy I know but where is and what is the end result?

Jimaz,I realize that for some reason you feel the need to correct my spelling and pronunciation,as a fellow American,if that is what flips your trigger,then I respect that and will allow you to continue to do so,even though it means nothing to me personally,I understand that it means something to you.

Its all well and good not to be a 'snowflake' and get offended by everything, everywhere.

THAT, is not what THIS is about.

First off, the immediate incident being discussed is violence, serious violence that killed someone and injured several others. A predictable result of fomenting hatred.

That is on a completely different level from 'freedom of speech or thought'.

****

Second, in respect of statues or school names you clearly miss something important.

These are meant to Honour someone for what they said or did.

These are typically public property, funded by ALL citizens [[for you, taxpayers).

It is hardly unreasonable to suggest that there be some measure of consensus on whether honouring someone is appropriate. While universal agreement couldn't obtained for honouring anyone; I strongly suspect you would find support for continuing to honour 'heroes' of the Confederacy to be well shy of 50% let alone consensus.

Schools can be renamed to honour other local or national figures without disrespecting any former staff or graduates.

Statues [[if particularly good) can be preserved, but re-located to convey educational value as opposed to honour [[ie. museum grounds or something similar as opposed to being in an official space of honour like a public square)

No one is erasing Robert E. Lee [[ or his compatriots) from history. They may be asking that a place of honour in their State/City be given over to someone more deserving by contemporary standards.

[canuck]

Its all well and good not to be a 'snowflake' and get offended by everything, everywhere.

THAT, is not what THIS is about.

First off, the immediate incident being discussed is violence, serious violence that killed someone and injured several others. A predictable result of fomenting hatred.

That is on a completely different level from 'freedom of speech or thought'.

****

Second, in respect of statues or school names you clearly miss something important.

These are meant to Honour someone for what they said or did.

These are typically public property, funded by ALL citizens [[for you, taxpayers).

It is hardly unreasonable to suggest that there be some measure of consensus on whether honouring someone is appropriate. While universal agreement couldn't obtained for honouring anyone; I strongly suspect you would find support for continuing to honour 'heroes' of the Confederacy to be well shy of 50% let alone consensus.

Schools can be renamed to honour other local or national figures without disrespecting any former staff or graduates.

Statues [[if particularly good) can be preserved, but re-located to convey educational value as opposed to honour [[ie. museum grounds or something similar as opposed to being in an official space of honour like a public square)

No one is erasing Robert E. Lee [[ or his compatriots) from history. They may be asking that a place of honour in their State/City be given over to someone more deserving by contemporary standards.

Yes.

As you say, CV, there is above all that, the White Supremacist symbolism that brings forth the underlying racism that needs to be addressed for what it is.

The Robert E Lee statue represents the same evil that the Swastika and The Confederate flag were meant to promote.

That is why a Kid Rock with Alligator Alley ethics and rattlesnake aesthetics is becoming a new norm. The swamp is equated to the 99% attorney laden Congress and Senate, the white collar criminals, and Wall street high flyers.The alt-right's claim is to have them replaced by Multiple Bankruptcy Chumps and pseudo Southern Rock wahoos.

[Richard]

Its all well and good not to be a 'snowflake' and get offended by everything, everywhere.

THAT, is not what THIS is about.

First off, the immediate incident being discussed is violence, serious violence that killed someone and injured several others. A predictable result of fomenting hatred.

That is on a completely different level from 'freedom of speech or thought'.

****

Second, in respect of statues or school names you clearly miss something important.

These are meant to Honour someone for what they said or did.

These are typically public property, funded by ALL citizens [[for you, taxpayers).

It is hardly unreasonable to suggest that there be some measure of consensus on whether honouring someone is appropriate. While universal agreement couldn't obtained for honouring anyone; I strongly suspect you would find support for continuing to honour 'heroes' of the Confederacy to be well shy of 50% let alone consensus.

Schools can be renamed to honour other local or national figures without disrespecting any former staff or graduates.

Statues [[if particularly good) can be preserved, but re-located to convey educational value as opposed to honour [[ie. museum grounds or something similar as opposed to being in an official space of honour like a public square)

No one is erasing Robert E. Lee [[ or his compatriots) from history. They may be asking that a place of honour in their State/City be given over to someone more deserving by contemporary standards.

The statue was already approved to be moved,the alt right had a permit provided by the city to march.

So what was gained other then provide the alt right massive public exposure worldwide,they are worldwide already.

I do not agree with the alt right views,I also do not agree with giving them a platform of unlimited publicity to further thier cause.

What would have happened if they had gone there,did thier little speeches and went home and nobody paid them any attention.This discussion would probably not even be happening.

Those that opposed them just lost that round and it caused lives and furthered the cause.

What is even scarier is you can see the use of private contractors in the military uniforms on American soil.

Robert E Lee has an interesting history,look at who he was married to,his views on slavery after marriage and he was offered a position on the northern side first.

https://www.biography.com/people/rob...ped_fragment_=

His actual pardon sat on a desk and the signers thought it was a copy so it was never signed,until years later it was found in a pile of documents and signed by then President Ford.

[Meddle]

I don't accept that honoring the Confederacy is the same as honoring 'evil'. Remember that many [[maybe more) Northerners also held slaves. Also remember that one family often found one brother in Blue and the other in Gray. Should that family only honor one brother and not the other? Both sides were just as American as the other. Both sides were American soldiers who fought and died for the freedoms they believed in.

I was OK with the monuments and even the flag until just recently when the Hate Right adopted them as symbols. As a result of that, not the Civil War reasons themselves, I feel it's time to retire the symbols. It's been 150 years. Time to move on and move the monuments to officially recognized historical sites such as State and National Battlefields and Cemetaries. Move them out of public squares and educational institutions.

Recognize and remember, but don't honor in the same way any longer. The hateful have made it so.

In the same way, I would now support legislation to ban the display of the Stars and Bars; the Battle Flag of Northern Virginia.

[Richard]

I don't accept that honoring the Confederacy is the same as honoring 'evil'. Remember that many [[maybe more) Northerners also held slaves. Also remember that one family often found one brother in Blue and the other in Gray. Should that family only honor one brother and not the other? Both sides were just as American as the other. Both sides were American soldiers who fought and died for the freedoms they believed in.

I was OK with the monuments and even the flag until just recently when the Hate Right adopted them as symbols. As a result of that, not the Civil War reasons themselves, I feel it's time to retire the symbols. It's been 150 years. Time to move on and move the monuments to officially recognized historical sites such as State and National Battlefields and Cemetaries. Move them out of public squares and educational institutions.

Recognize and remember, but don't honor in the same way any longer. The hateful have made it so.

In the same way, I would now support legislation to ban the display of the Stars and Bars; the Battle Flag of Northern Virginia.

On the flag aspect,I may not agree with it,but I feel a ban on it goes down the slippery slope.

More prevalent in Fla with a high immigration rate,many display flags in thier cars and bumper stickers of thier country of origin,which still to this day practice oppression and genocide.

I would also think that the American Indian could view the American flag as representing oppression even to this day.

I am in the south in a mixed neighborhood and the neighbor down the street flys one in his yard,nobody really pays it much mind,you may see a few out at the mud bogs and you really rarely see them going about daily life.

The one thing that I do know is that if the crap ever hit the fan against this country they would be right alongside of everybody else to protect it.

[canuck]

On the flag aspect,I may not agree with it,but I feel a ban on it goes down the slippery slope.

More prevalent in Fla with a high immigration rate,many display flags in thier cars and bumper stickers of thier country of origin,which still to this day practice oppression and genocide.

I would also think that the American Indian could view the American flag as representing oppression even to this day.

I am in the south in a mixed neighborhood and the neighbor down the street flys one in his yard,nobody really pays it much mind,you may see a few out at the mud bogs and you really rarely see them going about daily life.

The one thing that I do know is that if the crap ever hit the fan against this country they would be right alongside of everybody else to protect it.

Yes well, one apparently did his best to protect his fellow Americans by driving his Mopar flagship into them.

[Richard]

Yes well, one apparently did his best to protect his fellow Americans by driving his Mopar flagship into them.

Just like a supporter of a political party shot opposing members on a baseball field.

So are we to now figure that all of those that belong to that party are going out now to shoot everybody of the opposing party?

Canada seems to have quite the collection of neo Nazies,how are they existing in that utopian society?

[canuck]

Just like a supporter of a political party shot opposing members on a baseball field.

So are we to now figure that all of those that belong to that party are going out now to shoot everybody of the opposing party?

Canada seems to have quite the collection of neo Nazies,how are they existing in that utopian society?

Neo and old Nazis. Canada has a law against hate speech. Damned PC's.

Canada is not anymore Utopian than the great Republic North of Windsor.

That supporter of a political party, which party doesn't advocate white supremacy, display affection for pro-slavery and Jewish annihilation via symbols or speech.

That is the difference between being tolerant of symbols that you claim are impotent or at least convey a positive emotion in some and not others, and the intolerance of the Left toward imprecation of violence and submission.

Note that Prez Chump has not condemned the hatemongering crowd. He opposed the violence from both sides he says. Those who resisted the Nazis/Confederates in Virginia should have stayed home, as you suggest.

[Richard]

Neo and old Nazis. Canada has a law against hate speech. Damned PC's.

Canada is not anymore Utopian than the great Republic North of Windsor.

That supporter of a political party, which party doesn't advocate white supremacy, display affection for pro-slavery and Jewish annihilation via symbols or speech.

That is the difference between being tolerant of symbols that you claim are impotent or at least convey a positive emotion in some and not others, and the intolerance of the Left toward imprecation of violence and submission.

Note that Prez Chump has not condemned the hatemongering crowd. He opposed the violence from both sides he says. Those who resisted the Nazis/Confederates in Virginia should have stayed home, as you suggest.

Funny how even the liberal media is reporting how the President condemned the violence.

Also funny how the last 8 years it was not proper to condem radical Muslims that were killing Americans,but now the standard applies.

Yes the opposition should have stayed home,they had every right as Americans to be there,and they also had every right as Americans to voice their opinion.

Just like the alt right had every right to be there,and were permitted legally,to voice thier opinions weather we agree with them or not.

It is a little thing in this country called freedom of speech.

There are some that would like to rewrite the constitution and make that illegal.

But why give them a platform? They are not going away and personally I perfer not to give them weeks of publicity that pushes thier agenda mainstream and encouraging more lost souls to join their cause.

They are constantly under government surveillance and when they do something illegal there are consequences.

The loss of life was tragic and avoidable,as was the millions of dollars in damages from the looting and fires while this raged on for 3 days unchecked.

[canuck]

Funny how even the liberal media is reporting how the President condemned the violence.

Also funny how the last 8 years it was not proper to condem radical Muslims that were killing Americans,but now the standard applies.

Yes the opposition should have stayed home,they had every right as Americans to be there,and they also had every right as Americans to voice their opinion.

Just like the alt right had every right to be there,and were permitted legally,to voice thier opinions weather we agree with them or not.

It is a little thing in this country called freedom of speech.

There are some that would like to rewrite the constitution and make that illegal.

But why give them a platform? They are not going away and personally I perfer not to give them weeks of publicity that pushes thier agenda mainstream and encouraging more lost souls to join their cause.

There's a news story about a drunken American tourist who got hit by a German for doing the Nazi salute in Dresden this week. His attacker fled. But the tourist was arrested and will be prosecuted for the Heil Hitlers.

My question to you is: who would be more likely to curb the Constitution? An alt righter or a libtard, in popular parlance?

[Richard]

There's a news story about a drunken American tourist who got hit by a German for doing the Nazi salute in Dresden this week. His attacker fled. But the tourist was arrested and will be prosecuted for the Heil Hitlers.

My question to you is: who would be more likely to curb the Constitution? An alt righter or a libtard, in popular parlance?

It is clear from some and even on some posts in this forum the alt left prefers to rewrite the constitution.

No way in the world will the alt right be allowed to rewrite the constitution or the alt left.

I do not have a problem with liberals until they come up with all this safe spaces and because I am offended we need to change everything.

But that is not even all of the liberals,just as all conservatives are the same.The only thing I have a problem with is that they screwed up the whole two party system that was designed to have checks and balances and created President Trump.

Why did the Canadian government have to deport the German guy in order to prosecute for failing to denounce nazism?

Funny how your country of Canada has taken the exact same position that I have in this discussion.

http://m.huffingtonpost.ca/2014/11/2...n_6228152.html

Canada has estimated 600 hardcore nazi extremists,Sorry, but they are also in Windsor.

[Bong-Man]

Did anyone ever stop and think that we just saw Trump's 'Russian Connection' in Virginia ? We're used to traditional white hate groups that are rooted in the Civil War and issues within the U.S. These current groups have an international agenda based on the protection and interest of the white race on a global basis. Doesn't that include Russia ?....and couldn't that be where Trump and Putin have a common International interest ?

[oladub]

It was difficult to tell the Antifa thugs from the right wing thugs in some of the photos because both came wearing helmets spoiling for a fight. It was eerily like 1930 photos of Nazis and Communists battling each other. Where's all the love for the two police whose helicopter went down? Throw the book at the driver who took the street fight to a new level.

[Pam]

Everybody has a right to peaceful protest, including Nazis. Violent protests- no. I don't support that on either side. Bottom line- the local police and govt. totally failed here. The two groups should have been kept separate by some means.

[aj3647]

Of course Richard cares more about a goddamn statue than he does the 32-year old woman was murdered by a Trump-supporting Nazi TERRORIST. Her name was Heather Heyer. Unlike the Nazi thugs who showed up to commit violence, she actually lived in Charlottesville. She was a loving person who showed up that day to stand up to hate and the forces of evil and she was murdered for it.

Richard defames her and her memory by blaming her for her own death. Your victim-blaming, suggesting the the counterprotesters were at fault just for being there, is beyond deplorable. It's truly reprehensible.

I didn't think I would see people standing up for actual fucking Nazis on DYes, but here we are.

[noise]

The idea that neo-nazis and white supremacists should have a right to "peaceful protest" is one of the most un-American things I can imagine. It's a cancer that's not weeded out with ideological reasoning.