Marijuana Legalization in Canada and Michigan

**aj3647** · December-10-18, 09:29 PM

Originally Posted by Towne Cluber

Perhaps, although it might be somewhat wishful thinking given that...

1) illegal drug cartel activity has increased in places like Colorado

2) drug dealers aren’t going to just give up their livelihood so easily and go away quietly—especially in places like Detroit, where a significant portion of the population has very limited job options

3) many users already have their less expensive [[illegal) supplier and might not so easily switch over to a more expensive option just because it’s a legal source. If one wasn’t worried about legality before, a change in the law probably isn’t going to affect them now. People tend to choose less expensive options.

4) Gambling is legal but some people still choose to do it illegally [[and even get killed over it).

1) What is your data to support this claim?

2) Who said they would? There's plenty of illegal drugs to sling besides weed. But their weed sales will go down once regular people can just go to the weed version of an Apple store to buy it instead of shady dude in a rundown apartment complex somewhere. So that's still less money funneled into the criminal underworld and more funneled into the state's legitimate economy.

3) Again, what is your data for these nonsense claims of yours? Legal weed is going to be more expensive? Says who? Illegal products already come with a premium attached to the price because of the extreme risks involved in producing, smuggling them, and selling them. And Michigan will actually tax marijuana at a comparatively lower rate than most states. Unless you show me hard data, I see no reason to assume that legal weed will cost an arm and a leg more than the illegal variety to the point that people will BREAK THE LAW and risk jail to save literally just a few dollars. If I told you you could save $1 on a six-pack of beer, but you had to commit a misdemeanor offense to do it, would you?

4) Ah yes, those incredibly common gambling murders. That incredibly common thing. Please, do enlighten us, provide a link to a news story about the most recent illegal gambling murder in Michigan. I mean, it's such a common thing, you should have plenty to choose from.

**Towne Cluber** · December-10-18, 09:30 PM

Originally Posted by Canadian Visitor

Let's get this straight, you think that a whole bunch of construction workers, who weren't previously consuming pot, will, not that its legal, suddenly go get stoned and get fired as a result when a work place blood test shows impairment?

Is there any evidence to support such a supposition?

I hasten to add, that while I favour drug tests for selected professionals who are in charge of the care of others [[pilots, bus drivers etc.) as well as those who may otherwise have high-risk occupations, I think the US employers have far too much latitude to test without cause, and that merits legal restriction. Its intrusive and none of your employer's business, UNLESS, there is a demonstrable safety issue.

That said, I just don't by that those who were uninterested in pot in October are going to take it up on mass, in jobs where they are tested.

Hmm, is this so?

The research seems to suggest otherwise.

When Crane's looked into the cost of medical insurance in Michigan, it found "The biggest driver is that Michigan has an unlimited medical benefit for injured drivers"

In other words, failure to employ some kind of cost containment in the legislation governing insurance in Michigan. Most jurisdictions have some kind of limits, both for minor injury and for pain/suffering [[not normally for hospital based care).

This is completely unrelated to how much impairment Michigan driver's have. Let's not conflate issues.

Again, I don't think evidence supports that this will be the case over time. Even in Colorodo, the black market is partially sustained by the Federal laws around pot as well. Once legalization is complete, and established, I would expect the black market for pot to go the way of booze.

Good God you definitely haven’t been paying attention. Although you’re not a Detroiter, so that excuses some of your lack of awareness about our issues, but still...

By the way, your take on construction was both intentionally misleading as well as outright naive and/or frightening.

**ABetterDetroit** · December-10-18, 10:14 PM

Originally Posted by Towne Cluber

The Colorado that has also seen increased drug-related traffic fatalities. The last thing that Detroit [[already the most dangerous driving in America) needs.

I think some people need to be honest. They're willing to accept increased drug-related traffic accidents and fatalities...as long as it doesn't happen to them or their family/friends. Unbelievable indeed, until it happens to you!

With all due respect TC, you’re not being honest yourself.

Weed reached its maximum market penetration a long time ago. Anyone who wants it knows exactly how and where to get it. Arguing against that fact in 2018 is denying reality. 1950 isn’t coming back no matter how hard someone hopes it will for whatever reason.

You want potheads to get a free ride and are willing to step in and pay their taxes for them in their billion dollar industry. That is really generous of you.

I am not that generous and no longer interested in handing out free rides. They have the money to spend and the producers and dealers are earning substantial income. Regulate it and tax it just like the rest of us have to pay when we spend and earn.

First responders have to be paid with money that comes from taxes. We need more of them for a wide variety of tragic reasons.

**Towne Cluber** · December-10-18, 10:16 PM

Originally Posted by aj3647

1) What is your data to support this claim?

2) Who said they would? There's plenty of illegal drugs to sling besides weed. But their weed sales will go down once regular people can just go to the weed version of an Apple store to buy it instead of shady dude in a rundown apartment complex somewhere. So that's still less money funneled into the criminal underworld and more funneled into the state's legitimate economy.

3) Again, what is your data for these nonsense claims of yours? Legal weed is going to be more expensive? Says who? Illegal products already come with a premium attached to the price because of the extreme risks involved in producing, smuggling them, and selling them. And Michigan will actually tax marijuana at a comparatively lower rate than most states. Unless you show me hard data, I see no reason to assume that legal weed will cost an arm and a leg more than the illegal variety to the point that people will BREAK THE LAW and risk jail to save literally just a few dollars. If I told you you could save $1 on a six-pack of beer, but you had to commit a misdemeanor offense to do it, would you?

4) Ah yes, those incredibly common gambling murders. That incredibly common thing. Please, do enlighten us, provide a link to a news story about the most recent illegal gambling murder in Michigan. I mean, it's such a common thing, you should have plenty to choose from.

You’re not from around here are you? Unfortunately you’re the one that’s full of nonsense and apparently living in fairy tale land. If you’re going to talk big, you really need to be much better informed. I’m not going to do all the research that you should be doing but here’s something to get you started:

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/ne...de/1668415002/

https://wwjnewsradio.radio.com/artic...-leaves-2-dead

https://www.freep.com/story/news/loc...rty/327289002/

http://www.fox2detroit.com/news/loca...ame-in-detroit

https://www.freep.com/story/news/loc...ies/609387002/

I hope you know that most incidents [[shootings, murders, robberies, assaults, accidents, etc) don’t make it into the news. I heard/saw the aftermath of a shooting the day before Thanksgiving. A ambulance rushed to and from the scene. The police were there for 4-5 hours. It never made the news.

**Towne Cluber** · December-10-18, 10:22 PM

Originally Posted by ABetterDetroit

With all due respect TC, you’re not being honest yourself.

Weed reached its maximum market penetration a long time ago. Anyone who wants it knows exactly how and where to get it. Arguing against that fact in 2018 is denying reality. 1950 isn’t coming back no matter how hard someone hopes it will for whatever reason.

You want potheads to get a free ride and are willing to step in and pay their taxes for them in their billion dollar industry. That is really generous of you.

I am not that generous and no longer interested in handing out free rides. They have the money to spend and the producers and dealers are earning substantial income. Regulate it and tax it just like the rest of us have to pay when we spend and earn.

First responders have to be paid with money that comes from taxes. We need more of them for a wide variety of tragic reasons.

Speaking of not being honest, I don’t know where to begin with you. Feigned financial concern, looking out for the tax payers, supporting first responders, acting like today’s weed is like that of the 1950s, weed market tapped out—that was all quite a load to throw against the wall to see what sticks!

**Richard** · December-11-18, 12:06 AM

Actually at the top, illegal sales were being taxed,money needs to be washed and invested to be able to spend it which ends up paying taxes on it.

So the argument that no tax was being collected on it is not really true.

**ABetterDetroit** · December-11-18, 12:25 AM

Originally Posted by Towne Cluber

Speaking of not being honest, I don’t know where to begin with you. Feigned financial concern, looking out for the tax payers, supporting first responders, acting like today’s weed is like that of the 1950s, weed market tapped out—that was all quite a load to throw against the wall to see what sticks!

Your why I find the right wing people as expensive to tax payers as the far left. When pressed they get irrational. It’s all “Feigned”. Okay, whatever. Logical debate has left the room. Time for your last insult now because obviously by your last post your fresh out of legitimate arguments and are resorting to the tired old ‘fake’ bullshit.

**Towne Cluber** · December-11-18, 12:49 AM

Originally Posted by ABetterDetroit

Your why I find the right wing people as expensive to tax payers as the far left. When pressed they get irrational. It’s all “Feigned”. Okay, whatever. Logical debate has left the room. Time for your last insult now because obviously by your last post your fresh out of legitimate arguments and are resorting to the tired old ‘fake’ bullshit.

There’s nothing wrong with wanting the best for Detroiters. Anything less than making the health, safety, and employability of Detroiters to be top priority isn’t doing anyone any favors.

Swearing, name calling, anger, and throwing out tired ideological tags doesn’t accomplish anything and certainly doesn’t add validity to any of your arguments.

**Jimaz** · December-11-18, 09:32 AM

All the talk about DUIs makes me wonder: Are autonomous cars a form of driving under the influence of artificial intelligence?

**Richard** · December-11-18, 09:39 AM

I was kinda looking forward to having a few and the car automatically driving me safely home but apparently not.

https://www.versustexas.com/criminal...omous-vehicle/

There is another similar case where the Tesla actually called the police and ratted the guy out,which makes me wonder if they have sniffers in there.

**aj3647** · December-11-18, 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by Towne Cluber

You’re not from around here are you? Unfortunately you’re the one that’s full of nonsense and apparently living in fairy tale land. If you’re going to talk big, you really need to be much better informed. I’m not going to do all the research that you should be doing but here’s something to get you started:

No, actually, the onus is on the person MAKING the claim to prove it. I'm under no obligation to prove YOUR claims for you. Also, still waiting on your evidence that drug cartel activity has surged in Colorado. Or your claims that people won't buy legal weed because its too expensive and will continue to buy it illegally. Which makes me wonder, just who is supporting all of those legal marijuana shops in Colorado then? Somehow they still manage to stay in business and new ones keep opening. Weird!

**Richard** · December-11-18, 04:17 PM

I posted where the manufacturer and distribution warehouse in Colorado reported that 70% of their business is hard core pot smokers,that leaves 30% growth,out of that 30%,20% is based on hey it’s legal let’s try it.

That 10% future growth is not going to be viable very long,the people that are going to be making the money will be the ones getting into and selling out at the peak,it is not long term sustainable.

Going back before the war on drugs there were states that had decriminalized it,hard core pot smokers are not,in most cases,useing other drugs.

So why does the federal government have a problem with it?

Most just say it is old folks that are scared etc.

When you look at the past,a person controlling 1/3 of the production supplying the US illegally was banking on the adverage,100 million a month,then it breaks down to the local suppliers who were banking anywhere from 5 million to 50 million a month depending on where they were in the chain.

So now people really expect those people to retire?

They are not going to,they will still expect to see the same income before,the same thing is going to happen that happened in the 80s,they are going to flood the country with drugs that are cheaper then pot and more addictive in order to lock customers in.

Cartel activity,when it comes to weed,will become more aggressive,you do not pull 50 million a month out of somebody’s pocket without repercussions,and they are certainly are not known for just laying down and saying okay we give up.

We may see a positive surge when it comes to legalization but give people time to reorganize and in the future the price that is paid may be more then some bargain for.

By me they just charged a 12 year old with 7 felony counts after he brought gummy candy to school,it was labeled as The Green Hornet,out of California.

Each little block contained 99% pure THC,7 little kids got zapped with a level of THC that was designed to be halved for an adult.

Cannot blame the kid,he proably just thought it was candy.But we need to be careful of what we are asking for,decriminalized is the objective not unabashed marketing,how many adults actually buy gummy bears?

**stevewonders** · December-13-18, 10:05 AM

Great news! It's about time.

**Towne Cluber** · December-13-18, 11:36 AM

Originally Posted by aj3647

No, actually, the onus is on the person MAKING the claim to prove it. I'm under no obligation to prove YOUR claims for you. Also, still waiting on your evidence that drug cartel activity has surged in Colorado. Or your claims that people won't buy legal weed because its too expensive and will continue to buy it illegally. Which makes me wonder, just who is supporting all of those legal marijuana shops in Colorado then? Somehow they still manage to stay in business and new ones keep opening. Weird!

So you’re admitting that you’ve done zero research and don’t know what you’re talking about...yet you still want to post about it for some reason.

**Bong-Man** · December-13-18, 01:20 PM

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.18d7dde92d5b

https://www.potnetwork.com/news/alco...arijuana-study

https://www.forbes.com/sites/andrewd.../#22aa4306f181

https://psmag.com/news/it-is-high-time-we-reduced-crime

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...mmets-us-study

**Jimaz** · December-13-18, 09:39 PM

I just ran across this:

"It always seems impossible until it's done."

— Nelson Mandela

**Jimaz** · December-14-18, 03:40 PM

Virginia entrepreneur wants to start marijuana gifting business in Detroit

While legal weed may be hard to find until it becomes commercially available in early 2020, it was only a matter of time before budding [[sic) entrepreneurs came up with a way around Michigan’s new recreational marijuana law.

On High Road, a Boston-based online business founded and owned by Brandon Anthony, a 33-year-old Virginia native, plans to start a marijuana “gifting” service in Detroit this month.

Anthony will sell someone 21 or older a “munchie bag” filled with cookies or a muffin, candy or a T-shirt, for anywhere between $55 to $120. Along with the purchase of the bag: a gift of marijuana, no more than the 2.5 ounces allowed under Michigan law....

Sounds doubtful that this would get around the sales ban but elsewhere in the article it seems officials are reluctant to discuss enforcement, as if ???

Pandoras box is open for business.

**Bong-Man** · December-18-18, 09:40 AM

Another domino about to fall....

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/worl...-a4020271.html

Logic and sanity prevails. It only took 80 years..

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...m-bill-n947791

**Zacha341** · December-20-18, 03:59 PM

What a buzz kill -- Pesticides and marijuana!

Legal weed-grower temporarily shut down over pesticides

**Bigb23** · December-22-18, 01:45 AM

So,

Can anybody with all they're links and political rants, give me a time and/or date for buying legal marijuana for a guy who has not smoked for 25 years? And has been long medically eligible for pot?

Shuette has thrown the wrench into the proverbial gears.
And the Repubs will not stop. Ever.

**Jimaz** · December-24-18, 08:46 AM

From 2014:
US Rep. at Pot Hearing: 'People Don't Smoke Marijuana and Beat Up Their Wives'

A lot of drama to a mostly empty audience but what passionate advocacy!

**Bigb23** · December-24-18, 11:22 AM

[QUOTE=Jimaz;562349]From 2014:
US Rep. at Pot Hearing: 'People Don't Smoke Marijuana and Beat Up Their Wives'

A lot of drama to a mostly empty audience but what passionate advocacy![/QUOTE

Heroin = Pot, thank, you repubs on your class III classification.

**Towne Cluber** · December-27-18, 10:40 PM

https://www.latimes.com/politics/la-...227-story.html

**aj3647** · December-28-18, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by Towne Cluber

So you’re admitting that you’ve done zero research and don’t know what you’re talking about...yet you still want to post about it for some reason.

I asked you for sources for your ridiculous BS claims twice now, you've refused to provide them. It's obvious YOU don't know what you're talking about.

The voters approved this. It's legal whether you like or not. So suck on a big ol' fat J, or don't, either way your tears of sadness and concern won't change anything or allow you to get your way. We the People won, YOU lose. You being upset about it only makes it that much sweeter for me. Happy New Year!

**bust** · December-28-18, 11:57 AM

Originally Posted by Zacha341

What a buzz kill -- Pesticides and marijuana!

Legal weed-grower temporarily shut down over pesticides

If you think pesticides are a problem in government-regulated pot what about the risks smoking the contraband that would otherwise be the alternative?

Government is taking action to remediate the regulated situation.

People have no idea whatsoever what they buy on the street. Pesticides are the least of their concerns.