Lack Of Starter Homes In Michigan

[ABetterDetroit]

The Free Press article didn't attempt to tackle larger issues which are the true cause of a "lack of starter homes." There are plenty of starter homes in SE Michigan. They just aren't located in "good" school districts. And I'm not suggesting that families should be looking at $5,000 Detroit houses with caved-in porches either. Even if you exclude Detroit, the inner ring suburbs contain tens of thousands of sub-$150k homes in intact neighborhoods. Many families will not consider these communities because their school districts are producing well-below average ACT scores. And of course, even in the 21st Century, there is, let's say, a diversity to these communities that also precludes many families from considering the starter homes located there. So apparently the only solution is further expansion into exurbia despite the zero population growth of the region.

I could not agree more that the article in question was a major fail on the issue.

Why there are so many communities in the metro Detroit region in a slow decline and only a select few improving or on a upswing is what needs further investigation.

For a state and region desperate to diversify its economy housing and home improvements have been neglected for far to long.

[Bham1982]

So what happened in the last eight years of hope and change?

Obama isn't President, so irrelevent.

Yes, he was a flawed President, and deserves an F for failing on immigration reform [[and maybe a C overall) but Obama is like 10 trillion times better than the flaming dung heap on an express track to prison in the WH.

[Richard]

because they like keeping the plebs downtrodden,it gives them a sense of superiority,then when election time comes around they can throw them a bone of promising $15 per hour minimum wage so they feel better instead of doing the right thing and training them with a usable skill so they can actually provide for their families.

I agree with the other poster with starter home buyers wanting the caddliac and expecting to pay for the pinto.

Back in the 80s and 90s I used to make good money building starter homes,no frills,but then people started demanding granite and stainless fancy trim,which drove the costs up.

Now the money is at the other end of the spectrum with $450 to $600,000 homes because the customer expects quality and all of the extras that they are paying for and not a 600,000 house for 90,000.

A starter house was supposed to be exactly that,you bought it and lived in it for a few years building equity then sell it useing the equity to buy bigger at the same payment and not be married to a house payment.

For the adverage buyer,location location location concept has never changed,your single or newly married and you buy cheap and smart in maybe a not so nice part of town,deal with it a few years and then move up when the kids start coming around.

People have to do what is smart for them and not worry about others or fall into that trap of trying to impress others,instant gratification is what it is.

Granite countertops may look nice but you cannot eat them and in the long run they will not even matter.

[Richard]

Obama isn't President, so irrelevent.

Yes, he was a flawed President, and deserves an F for failing on immigration reform [[and maybe a C overall) but Obama is like 10 trillion times better than the flaming dung heap on an express track to prison in the WH.

What is the price of tea in China today?

[3WC]

In addition to the well informed comments and logical views expressed on this thread, we are treated to the laughable far left radical musings of our resident no-nothing who claims some builders make a $250,000 profit while building schlock houses.

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Here's an old joke.

A plumber finishes 5 hours of work in a Grosse Pointe Shores home just as the owner arrives home from the office; the plumber hands the owner his invoice:

Owner: My God, I'm a partner in a large corporate law firm and I don't make that much money.

Plumber: Neither did I when I used to practice law.

Take-away: make sure your kids learn a skilled trade.

[Bham1982]

In addition to the well informed comments and logical views expressed on this thread, we are treated to the laughable far left radical musings of our resident no-nothing who claims some builders make a $250,000 profit while building schlock houses.

Laugh away. I know builders and know their rough margins. Development is a high-risk game, with huge returns in good times [[but disaster when market turns).

You can buy a Bham bungalow for 250k, spend around 350k building a home, another 100k for marketing, closing and incidentals, and sell for 950k. That's a very tidy profit in my book.

Of course, the developer isn't cutting himself a check for 250k, it's more complex than that, and profits are mostly rolled into new land purchases, repeating the cycle until recession.

Also, your anecdote is silly. I would love to meet the plumber who makes more than a top law firm partner [[top law firms like Wachtell have profits in the range of $5 million per partner).

[Bham1982]

What is the price of tea in China today?

Exactly. Always nice when a Trump cultist undermines their own whataboutism non-argument.

[Honky Tonk]

obama isn't president, so irrelevent.

Yes, he was a flawed president, and deserves an f for failing on immigration reform [[and maybe a c overall) but obama is like 10 trillion times better than the flaming dung heap on an express track to prison in the wh.

I Want Hillary!!!!

[Richard]

Exactly. Always nice when a Trump cultist undermines their own whataboutism non-argument.

It was a discussion not a argument,there is a difference and I was not aware the current president was looking for a starter house in Detroit.

Delvopment is no riskier then anything else and here most new builds are sold before they are built,the only risk short term is holding land but the cycle comes back around anyways.

I know a plumber that dropped out of high school and started working as an apprentice,he worked his way up and had his own company and supply chain and then sold it for $250 million.

Granted it was a rare case and almost as bad as useing a example of a lawyer that makes 5 mil a year as a yardstick.

[Bham1982]

I Want Hillary!!!!

Exhibit A of delusional Trump cult whataboutism.

It's Mueller Time and your Dear Leader is on an express track to federal prison.

[Richard]

So does anybody want to put a timeline guesstimate on when the tree farm becomes a viable prospect for COD starter homes?

[Honky Tonk]

Exhibit A of delusional Trump cult whataboutism.

It's Mueller Time and your Dear Leader is on an express track to federal prison.

The title of the thread is:

Lack Of Starter Homes In Michigan


Yet you've managed, again, through your deranged obsession, to turn it into yet another thread about Donald Trump. If we were having this discussion in a physical room, with physical people, my guess is you'd make headlines.

[Maof]

The title of the thread is:

Lack Of Starter Homes In Michigan


Yet you've managed, again, through your deranged obsession, to turn it into yet another thread about Donald Trump. If we were having this discussion in a physical room, with physical people, my guess is you'd make headlines.

I agree but, it was someone else who escalated the discussion

[Bham1982]

Yet you've managed, again, through your deranged obsession, to turn it into yet another thread about Donald Trump.

Quite the bizarre projection.

I never mentioned Trump. Trump cultists derailed the thread with their idiocy re. their Dear Leader.

[Richard]

^ Yep,typical blame everybody else.

Short term memory loss with your post #21?

It always goes the same way no matter who is office,you can sit and cry about it every day or you can figure out how to make it work to your advantage.

Most Americans call that,making lemonade out of lemons.

Mobile homes are or were constructed with 2x3 walls and in most cities did not have to adhere to the building standards and codes of a residential dwelling more so those imposed on a RV manufacturer.Most cities also require that the axles remain underneath to retain the mobile status,here you have to renew the registration and sticker every year like a car tag.

Manufactured or modular homes must meet the same building code requirements as a residential house,really my 1920s house on pilings is built not much different then a manufactured home.

The only difference is in the time frame,if you have a lot you can bring in a manufactured home and it is ready to live in in a week verses months of waiting to build.

There is a company today that offers really nice expandable home plans,how it works is the plan starts as the basic one bedroom floor plan as in a starter home,say 500sqft,then as you save more money you add rooms all the way up to 6000sqft but while doing so the house never looks odd through the process,like somebody added rooms as an afterthought.

That is what they used to do back in the day when they had no mortgage company and you paid as you went along.

[313WX]

I'm not sure why people keep peddling this myth of a so-called labor shortage in construction, unless they're for-profit business owners or bought-and-paid-for by big monied interest [[thus, they have an ulterior motive).

https://www.economy.com/dismal/analy...rker-Shortage/

[313WX]

For a state and region desperate to diversify its economy housing and home improvements have been neglected for far to long.

Chicken vs. egg.

The demand for housing must be there before the supply comes.

In other words, the state and region needs to focus on diversifying its economy to the point that will attract a people who need homes before worrying about building/improving a ton of homes.

[ABetterDetroit]

Chicken vs. egg.

The demand for housing must be there before the supply comes.

In other words, the state and region needs to focus on diversifying its economy to the point that will attract a people who need homes before worrying about building/improving a ton of homes.

I disagree completely.

Property taxes are way to high here and have been since 40 other states have been kicking our ass where they are a fraction of what they are in Michigan.

Instead of rolling out the red carpet and eliminating property taxes for the 'chosen very few' who will come and build jobs in this state roll them back for everyone. Flatten those SOBs.

How and what is taxed is critical.

Start with a blank sheet of paper and figure out how we will raise the necessary tax revenue in the 21st century and compete with other states instead of going with what worked in 1950 because that has failed for 50 years now.

The map tells the whole story. We do not have a New York or a Chicago. Texas is the only exception. What's the point of trying to be like the exception? Then again, we don't have oil in the ground like they do either...

https://taxfoundation.org/how-high-a...es-your-state/

[Honky Tonk]

Quite the bizarre projection.

I never mentioned Trump. Trump cultists derailed the thread with their idiocy re. their Dear Leader.

You're delusional. Go up a few posts and re-read what you wrote. You should have brought the next size larger pussy-hat, the one you're wearing is too tight.

[313WX]

Quite the bizarre projection.

I never mentioned Trump. Trump cultists derailed the thread with their idiocy re. their Dear Leader.

Oh really?

Yes, I'm well aware we had a labor shortage before Trump, and too little immigration relative to our rivals for at least a decade, largely due to a right-wing Congress stonewalling immigration reform since Bush II, all to appease the nativist wing of the party.

Just because we were stupid for 10 years doesn't mean that going stupid x1000 under Trump is a remotely sane response.

Exhibit A of delusional Trump cult whataboutism.

It's Mueller Time and your Dear Leader is on an express track to federal prison.

Typical Hillary supporter, always gaslighting others.

And before even trying that BS, *you* mentioned Trump's name first in this thread before others mentioned Hillary and Obama's name.

Anything else? Or do you want to continue derailing this thread [[which was a discussion that had nothing to do with any particular president) with your derangement of Trump?

[3WC]

Bham, back to the non-political thread.

Your thimble-full of knowledge about real estate [[and everything else upon which you opine), while masquerading as what you think is expertise, fools nobody on here.

[Richard]

I disagree completely.

Property taxes are way to high here and have been since 40 other states have been kicking our ass where they are a fraction of what they are in Michigan.

Instead of rolling out the red carpet and eliminating property taxes for the 'chosen very few' who will come and build jobs in this state roll them back for everyone. Flatten those SOBs.

How and what is taxed is critical.

Start with a blank sheet of paper and figure out how we will raise the necessary tax revenue in the 21st century and compete with other states instead of going with what worked in 1950 because that has failed for 50 years now.

The map tells the whole story. We do not have a New York or a Chicago. Texas is the only exception. What's the point of trying to be like the exception? Then again, we don't have oil in the ground like they do either...

https://taxfoundation.org/how-high-a...es-your-state/

This seems to be one one of the biggest strangleholds on the city itself,it is really hard for me to wrap my head around on how they come up with the numbers.

Most places property taxes are based on the value of the home itself,all other metrics aside.

When I look at comparing my house with a property tax of $500 per year verses a similar one in Detroit of $3500 a year it appears that the tax system is not based on home values but how much is needed to run the city.

I also notice the changes implemented in new purchase verses long time home ownership and agree it is not a fair system,I understand it is based on encouraging new buyers but if you are strangling existing homeowners in the process what exactly are you accomplishing.

The existing homeowners are in essence subsidizing the newcomers.

I know the current mayor is trying against a mountain and I hope they can figure that one out.

[BankruptcyGuy]

There are quite a few interesting points in the article and this discussion. A few you may not be aware of:

Federal bank regulators have severely cramped down on financing of residential developments. That has made financing basically inaccessible for all but the largest builders. The largest builders tend not to have starter level pricing. They would rather build in a slightly nicer area at a slightly higher price point.

There are not massive profits in homebuilding or land development. The reason for the lack of low-priced product is not excessive builder profits.

The author [[and a poster) mentioned that local zoning has an impact. It has an ENORMOUS impact--tough to overstate it. Municipalities want higher-end product. Failing that, they want senior-targeted product. So they will limit density and increase lot sizes to decrease the amount of available homes. That increases the price points. Tough to explain that to local politicians regardless of business acumen.

Detroit has an opportunity, because the land is so cheap. Taxes are one issue [[highest millage outside of Ypsilanti, I believe), but getting regulatory, zoning and planning approvals is another one.

One last point--values are not static. You could have bought a home in the Cass Corridor for a song a few years ago. Now? Quite a different story. I personally view that as a good thing. Others worry about gentrification, and I understand that argument as well. But the newly-developed downtown areas are providing an anchor for the community. My questions would be: how can we speed this up? and how can we expand this to other areas?

[emu steve]

Good points above.

One of the takeaways from this thread is municipalities want 'no pain' residential growth. Lot of assessed value without a lot of houses, kids in schools, need for a lot of police and fire, congestion on local roads, etc.

OTOH, Think of the 'good ole' days where houses were say 3 bedrooms, small, and housed 4 - 6 children. Yikes.

Not much tax revenue to the city and a helluva of a lot of children to educate.

As I've indicated before, cities love those multi-family developments that millenials live in.

They might be inhabited by DINKs. [[let me explain). Double Income No Kids.

So a couple lives in Brush Park, takes QLine to work downtown, and pays two income taxes to Detroit and causes little marginal expense to the city.

[Bham1982]

Bham, back to the non-political thread.

Your thimble-full of knowledge about real estate [[and everything else upon which you opine), while masquerading as what you think is expertise, fools nobody on here.

Then I must be profoundly lucky. My "thimble-full" knowledge of RE has made my family quite comfortable. Imagine if I knew something about the field!

All the apparent RE Einsteins in this thread curiously don't seem to know the first thing about regional home values or buying/flipping homes. Can you say projecting?