[Reopened!] Kercheval at Wayburn will be closed to traffic in Grosse Pointe Park.

**p69rrh51** · December-23-12, 02:05 AM

UPDATE: Aug. 12, 2019 - The controversial intersection has been reopened.

I was at a party on Sat. evening chatting with a well connected GP resident who confirmed that Kercheval will be closed to traffic between Wayburn and Alter.
At another party in the cabbage patch much to my surprise rumors had already started. To get around the "wall" issue a new building supposedly has been approved to be built at the location.
The biggest surprise was the black and small gay communities in the cabbage patch are very supportive of the project. Then the conversation moved to the time when Vernor and Charlevoix would be closed to through traffic.
Personally I do not want any street blocked as it makes a mess of my routes around the area, but an interesting development in light of recent events.

**Gistok** · December-23-12, 02:51 AM

p69... no surprise on that one...

Living in SCS, I've always marveled at how from 8 1/2 Mile to 12 Mile the western border of the city has a moat [[I-94) and city walls [[brick sound barrier walls)... the only thing missing is a gate tower with arched entranceway at every half mile where a bridge crosses the "moat"... and it would look like a suburban version of a European medieval city such as Rothenburg , Carcassone or Avila.

**p69rrh51** · December-23-12, 02:56 AM

Originally Posted by Gistok

p69... no surprise on that one...

Living in SCS, I've always marveled at how from 8 1/2 Mile to 12 Mile the western border of the city has a moat [[I-94) and city walls [[brick sound barrier walls)... the only thing missing is a gate tower with arched entranceway at every half mile where a bridge crosses the "moat"... and it would look like a suburban version of a European medieval city such as Rothenburg , Carcassone or Avila.

It was a little bit of a surprise for me as the Park had back burnered the project for awhile, but with the recent criminal activity I think the closure was quickly green lighted.

**Scottathew** · December-23-12, 08:47 AM

That Detroit neighborhood that starts there is an urban prairie.

**Zacha341** · December-23-12, 08:50 AM

I've noticed that and the GP folks who's homes back into that have got to be experiencing alot of crime and break ins. Fun for everyone! Reminds me of Atkinson street in Detroit which back up against Clairmont north - bad time for certain.

Originally Posted by 48091

That Detroit neighborhood that starts there is an urban prairie.

**noggin** · December-23-12, 08:51 AM

The first 3 western streets have the highest crime rate in GPP. I am not surprised they feel that way. Probably just getting tired of being crime victims.

**Zacha341** · December-23-12, 09:00 AM

Yeah, I was reading some GP crime stats and some were careless things one could argue like leaving cars unlocked and garage doors open. We Detroiter's have long given up such practices. Then there are open face to face robberies in the day time.

Originally Posted by noggin

The first 3 western streets have the highest crime rate in GPP. I am not surprised they feel that way. Probably just getting tired of being crime victims.

**EASTSIDE CAT 67-83** · December-23-12, 10:07 AM

This started down on Korte and Alter years ago...and the wall option continues. This is just people trying to protect their hard earned property and in the worst case their lives. God speed, and this comes from someone who grew up on the wrong side of the wall!

**Zacha341** · December-23-12, 10:22 AM

Nah! --

-- No those rich folk need their 'wealth' redistributed as was the attempt to redistribute mine last week. I am also speaking from the other side of the wall!

Originally Posted by EASTSIDE CAT 67-83

This started down on Korte and Alter years ago...and the wall option continues. This is just people trying to protect their hard earned property and in the worst case their lives. God speed, and this comes from someone who grew up on the wrong side of the wall!

**3d1c3** · December-23-12, 12:54 PM

I saw architectural drawings that showed a 20k sq ft building that would be constructed closing Kercheval at Wayburn. It's only on paper, but with all that's going on in GPP along Kercheval, it wouldn't surprise me if they did.

**bailey** · December-24-12, 09:49 AM

The various players that are allegedly behind this stuff have lots of plans for GP. How much of it will actually materialize is the question. I'd say if about half of what the rumors are actually happens, it would be pretty cool.

**Zacha341** · December-24-12, 10:24 AM

Walls and fences always spark debate and rancor, but I can appreciate that they want to keep their community safe or at least safer. Break ins are up and robberies too, face to face, fraud or other means.

They want that area to remain relatively 'walkable' without their citizens living in fear of someone going-upside-their-head or worse for an Iphone in broad daylight.

Shollin · December-24-12, 12:14 PM

This idea has been floated around for years. Harper Woods was talking about doing the same thing. The crime rate in Grosse Pointe Park is way below state and national average and is at the same level as Birmingham. In 2010 Grosse Pointe Park recorded a total of 2 roberries. Harper Woods meanwhile recorded 42. No one seems to care about the spike in crime in Harper Woods. If I'm Grosse Pointe I would be more concerned with Harper Woods than the urban prairie that borders Grosse Pointe.

**Zacha341** · December-24-12, 12:35 PM

Some area and borders of Harper Woods are nuts for crime I hear. I work from to time near the GP border. There are problems. And there has had a recent spike and broad daylight incidences that has brought this issue up... from their new sources:

http://grossepointe.patch.com/search...lice%20blotter

Originally Posted by Shollin

This idea has been floated around for years. Harper Woods was talking about doing the same thing. The crime rate in Grosse Pointe Park is way below state and national average and is at the same level as Birmingham. In 2010 Grosse Pointe Park recorded a total of 2 roberries. Harper Woods meanwhile recorded 42. No one seems to care about the spike in crime in Harper Woods. If I'm Grosse Pointe I would be more concerned with Harper Woods than the urban prairie that borders Grosse Pointe.

**DetroitPlanner** · December-24-12, 11:55 PM

Good luck Grosse Pointe, Kercheval is a bus route as well as a federal-aid highway.

**p69rrh51** · December-25-12, 02:57 AM

Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

Good luck Grosse Pointe, Kercheval is a bus route as well as a federal-aid highway.

I have a feeling the bus rerouting has already been approved and I would not be surprised that some of the federal aid is being used to fund the project.

**Gistok** · December-25-12, 09:18 AM

How is regular traffic being handled in this situation? Aren't the residents of Wayburn going to be PO'ed when a lot of Kercheval traffic [[with no where else to go) will be going up and down their street?

**Zacha341** · December-25-12, 09:23 AM

One big 'go-around' I suppose...

Originally Posted by Gistok

How is regular traffic being handled in this situation? Aren't the residents of Wayburn going to be PO'ed when a lot of Kercheval traffic [[with no where else to go) will be going up and down their street?

**poobert** · December-25-12, 10:33 PM

Hmmmmmmm....I'll bite.

There's essentially nothing on the other side of Alter, anyway. So no big deal, really.

However, what about My Dad's Bar [[formerly City Limits) and Art's Liquor [[both technically in Detroit)? It's funny to cut those off as those are all outlets for GP men to get away, presumably, from their shrill blue-haired wives. I kid you not, I frequent both of those places, and it has to be about 1/4 Detroit hipster [[at best) and 3/4 GP booze hounds [[at least) looking to loosen their collars. Despite being on the other side of the border, I swear by the God of all that most off the cross-pollinating has been strictly from the Pointers. So there is a bit of irony in closing the border in that particular spot, these days.

So much of it just smacks of the old, stodgy, Protestant GP ways that seem to die so, so hard. I look forward to hearing the saturated GP stories about circumnavigating the wall.

As for me, what can I say? On this side of Mack we have no such pretensions. I'll drink you all under the table, once you scale the wall. A very Happy Christmas!

**Goose** · December-25-12, 11:00 PM

Originally Posted by p69rrh51

The biggest surprise was the black and small gay communities in the cabbage patch are very supportive of the project.

that is suprising, i was always under the impression that blacks and gays living in Grosse Pointe not only advocated muggings and thievery but were the root cause of both.........

**DetroitPlanner** · December-25-12, 11:09 PM

Originally Posted by p69rrh51

I have a feeling the bus rerouting has already been approved and I would not be surprised that some of the federal aid is being used to fund the project.

1. Federal aid will never be used to block a federal aid road for disrcimative purposes.

2. I can't find a single article or proposal to close this intersection.

**p69rrh51** · December-26-12, 01:04 AM

I do not want to see the road closed, but there are a couple questions I have. Does the GP part of Kercheval receive federal aid? Is closing the road discriminating according the the federal/state guidelines? Also does there have to be an article of any sort proposing the closure have to be published?

Shollin · December-26-12, 01:25 AM

It was at least 10 years ago when Harper Woods pitched the idea of blocking roads into the city and they got the idea from Grosee Pointe, and *gasp* Palmer Woods. Grosse Pointe has been pitching this since the 80's.

**DetroitPlanner** · December-26-12, 07:26 AM

Originally Posted by p69rrh51

I do not want to see the road closed, but there are a couple questions I have. Does the GP part of Kercheval receive federal aid? Is closing the road discriminating according the the federal/state guidelines? Also does there have to be an article of any sort proposing the closure have to be published?

Yes. http://mdotwas1.mdot.state.mi.us/pub...FC11_WAYNE.pdf

Query google for "Evironmental Justice" and "Federal Funding"

There does not have to be an article, but you would think that it would at least have to be approved or discussed by Grosse Pointe Park's planning commission or council. If it is generating discussion on this board, it should be generating discussion elsewhere. My google query only came up with this thread.

Therefore, I am siding with saying it is a bunch of know it all planner wanna bes are spreading rumors throughout the Pointes that can be justified.

Shollin · December-26-12, 11:36 AM

Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

Yes. http://mdotwas1.mdot.state.mi.us/pub...FC11_WAYNE.pdf

Query google for "Evironmental Justice" and "Federal Funding"

There does not have to be an article, but you would think that it would at least have to be approved or discussed by Grosse Pointe Park's planning commission or council. If it is generating discussion on this board, it should be generating discussion elsewhere. My google query only came up with this thread.

Therefore, I am siding with saying it is a bunch of know it all planner wanna bes are spreading rumors throughout the Pointes that can be justified.

I can assure city council is talking about it. When I lived in Harper Woods, our city council and chief of police were talking about it. There was a news article a couple years ago about it. The plan for Harper Woods was to seal itself off from Eastland. They picked the idea up from Grosse Pointe. Grosse Pointe should be more concerned about Harper Woods. It's denser and the criminals are even infiltrating their schools.