Thoughts at large

[rb336]

nice dodge, bats. wait -- no it wasn't. give it all back, bats, and don't you dare drive on any public roads either

[ejames01]

That isn't even a remotely realistic idea. Why waste your time [[not to mention everyone on DetroitYES) even bringing that up?. Are you really that bored that you must constantly write things to annoy other people?

I believe that trolling on occasion can be humorous and quite a stress reliever, but to do it EVERY DAY is pathetic.

No government subsidies, for anything, is my position on that subject.

[oladub]

Originally Posted by ccbatson
No government subsidies, for anything, is my position on that subject.

well, then, give back your public-school med degree, your grant money, your roads, your police protection, fire dept, radio or any broadcast medium [[to hell with WJR, I'll just start broadcasting a much more powerful signal on that frequency!) give back half of your pay, too

Rb, Public broadcasting uses subsidies. Regulation is a different topic. The other things you mentioned can all be paid for with state and local taxes. Narrowing this to the federal government, it would probably be a good idea to eliminate subsidies wherever possible. In the energy sector, it would be a great idea. The real costs of energy would emerge resulting, I think, in a bonanza for alternative energy development. It makes no sense to spent billions of subsidies to develop clean coal, finance and insure nuclear power plants, drill and/or protect oil interests and then turn around and have to subsidize the development of wind generation to compete with other more heavily subsidized forms of energy. Just eliminate all the subsidies so there is a level playing field.

Federal subsidies for housing has been a huge disaster by getting people into loans they can't afford and creating a now burst housing bubble.

Even at the state level, subsidies can be cut back. I know of a small city that got grants to beautify its flagging downtown and otherwise save it. One government worker was hired as a coordinator to write grants, get all the businesses to use the same Christmas lighting, plant some flowers, etc.. Then another government agency comes along and gave $250k of 'TIF" subsidies to Walgreens to locate a store there. That subsidy resulted in two existing downtown pharmacies closing their doors and undoing the work of the subsidized government coordinator.

It is illogical and rhetorical to suggest that after Bats has been forced to pay for this or that, that he can't try to get some of it back. If and when I qualify for an income tax refund or a social security check, I intend to take them to try to claw back some of what has been taken. If it was my money when the government confiscated it, it is still mine when the government gives a fraction of it back.

[rb336]

Federal subsidies for housing has been a huge disaster by getting people into loans they can't afford and creating a now burst housing bubble.

ah, another one who buys that oft-disproven [[by conservative economists, no less) idea. It wasn't the loans for people on the low end -- it was the loans to speculators and the jumbo loans that caused the problem, none of which were subsidized

[ejames01]

Absolutely, There are not that people poor homeowner even around to cause a trillion dollar meltdown.

ah, another one who buys that oft-disproven [[by conservative economists, no less) idea. It wasn't the loans for people on the low end -- it was the loans to speculators and the jumbo loans that caused the problem, none of which were subsidized

[Ray1936]

Back to the title line with thoughts from Las Vegas.

Why does nearly every ad for an automobile portray that auto being driven in a reckless, negligent manner with the dumb words "professional driver on closed course" faintly appear at the bottom?

It's 107 with a predicted high of 111 today. Why do I wish I was back in Michigan just right now?

Why does Fernando Rodney give me heart failure every time he comes into the 9th inning for the save?

Was it intentional that the Big Beaver exit on I-75 was exit # 69?

Went through Toledo a couple years back. Aren't we lucky that we lost the border war?

How come there's no "MilfordYES!" or "RomeoYES!"?

Went to Utah Sunday. It was closed.

Attended a Yanni concert last week. He cut his hair and now looks like Magglio Ordonez.

Lake Mead is full of Quagga mussels. I knew we shouldn't have snuck that pipeline into the Great Lakes.

How in the world do we accumulate so many photographs that no longer hold any meaning for us? Landscapes, etc.

Finally, thanks to ccbats for paying into Social Security and keeping me in the manner to which I have become accustomed.

[oladub]

ah, another one who buys that oft-disproven [[by conservative economists, no less) idea. It wasn't the loans for people on the low end -- it was the loans to speculators and the jumbo loans that caused the problem, none of which were subsidized

Either way, end those programs. What were Democrats doing creating programs to subsidize speculators anyway? If you are saying the government borrowed money to finance its housing follies, then interest has to be paid on the borrowed Chinese money. The interest paid for borrowed money is a program subsidy.

[rb336]

Either way, end those programs. What were Democrats doing creating programs to subsidize speculators anyway? If you are saying the government borrowed money to finance its housing follies, then interest has to be paid on the borrowed Chinese money. The interest paid for borrowed money is a program subsidy.

Read my lips: they did NOT create programs to subsidize speculators. it was good ole GOP deregulation that created the speculative bubble

[alsodave]

Why are there sequels to something called "Final Destination"?

[rb336]

they changed their minds?

[ccbatson]

They duped speculators by priming the pump and pushing the derivatives.

[cheddar bob]

Was it intentional that the Big Beaver exit on I-75 was exit # 69?

If that were the case, they would have made Beaver Road exit #169. Instead it is exit #168. I think it would have been so much better as 169.

[alsodave]

If that were the case, they would have made Beaver Road exit #169. Instead it is exit #168. I think it would have been so much better as 169.

Maybe there should be a Hummer dealership off of that exit.

[oladub]

Read my lips: they did NOT create programs to subsidize speculators. it was good ole GOP deregulation that created the speculative bubble

Rb, read up on Larry Summers. In 1999, Summers was a proponent within the Clinton administration of the Gramm bill to deregulate the banking industry, and as such, bears responsibility for the current environment. President Obama has promoted Larry Summers to Director of the White House's National Economic Council. And didn't Jimmy Carter have something to do with Fannie and Freddie and the Housing and Community Development Act of 1977? You know, the programs that imploded under the deregulation and push to issue loans to unqualified loan applicants under Clinton and Bush. Don't shoot the messenger this time; its Democrat.
http://www.democraticunderground.com...ss=389x4399526

[rb336]

Originally Posted by rb336
Read my lips: they did NOT create programs to subsidize speculators. it was good ole GOP deregulation that created the speculative bubble

Rb, read up on Larry Summers. In 1999, Summers was a proponent within the Clinton administration of the Gramm bill to deregulate the banking industry, and as such, bears responsibility for the current environment. President Obama has promoted Larry Summers to Director of the White House's National Economic Council....

still nothing to contradict my comment in any way, shape or form

And didn't Jimmy Carter have something to do with Fannie and Freddie and the Housing and Community Development Act of 1977? You know, the programs that imploded under the deregulation and push to issue loans to unqualified loan applicants under Clinton and Bush. Don't shoot the messenger this time; its Democrat.

Fannie/Freddie imploded for a number of reasons, and yes, the speculative market did cause it problems, but NOT because they were underwriting the speculators, but because speculation created an untennable market situation. There WAS NO PUSH for fannie and freddie to make loans to unqualified applicants. that is pure right-wing fiction

[mjs]

To further support rb336, neither side needed to push for loans to unqualified people because neither side opposed it. The Republicans loved that they could write bad loans, take the money, and then flip the risk to the stock market. The Democrats loved that every undeserving moron out there could get a home of their own. They all refer to the other side's participation because they can't refer to their opposition. Its what makes Barney Frank so despicable; he talks about how others effect things as though he has even less power than you or I.

[oladub]

Both parties are up to their necks in Fannie and Freddie. It was a bad idea from the beginning. I have twice before asked what has Fannie/Freddie ever provided that is worth more than the bailouts that Fannie/Freddie received. If so, what?

If anyone wants to find out more about Fannie and Freddie, a good selection of articles is here and includes links to Open Secrets and The Center for Public Integrity.
http://solari.com/archive/freddie-fannie-penny-stocks/

A sample-

It turns out that David Hisey, the Chief Financial Officer of Fannie Mae appointed on August 27, 2008 after the government takeover, once worked at KPMG. And who were they? They were the auditors for HUD and FHA under Andrew Cuomo when the housing bubble got going and $59 billion plus went missing from the agency. [[See our Missing Money page for more.)
So here is the latest tidbit in from a network member. Hisey was an audit partner and worked on the HUD/FHA audit account at KPMG during all the shenanigans. Remember, just because Fannie Mae is in conservatorship does not mean that more assets can not disappear.

[rb336]

Ah. Wisdom from Ms Fitts. I sometimes agree with her, but she always conveniently starts things after her stint with HUD under Bush the Elder [[yes, blame everyone, but I had nothing to do with it!)

[rb336]

Please note that I did not once mention her several appearances on the wonderfully whacky late-night freakshow, Coast to Coast

[rb336]

oops. oh well

[oladub]

Ah. Wisdom from Ms Fitts. I sometimes agree with her, but she always conveniently starts things after her stint with HUD under Bush the Elder [[yes, blame everyone, but I had nothing to do with it!)

Wrong. Very wrong. She wrote extensively about the corruption she found within the Bush administration. You are shooting the wrong messenger unless her sin was to note the corruption under both Republicans and Democrats. Here is a list of people both democrat and repubican that she reemed in just one of her articles.
http://www.dunwalke.com/resources/people.htm
Try to fit this Fitts story to your statement.
"Brady, Bush, Bechtel, and "the boys"

Here is a sample from that article linking Bush I with drug running operations. "Thanks to numerous journalists and members of the enforcement community, the documentation on Mena drug running and the related money laundering is quite serious and makes the case that the government was engaged or complicit in significant narcotics trafficking. This includes the various relationships to employees of the National Security Council, the Department of Justice and the CIA under Vice President Bush’s leadership"

Don't believe everything you read on Wonkette.

[Detroitej72]

Please note that I did not once mention her several appearances on the wonderfully whacky late-night freakshow, Coast to Coast

Hey, whats wrong with a show that welcomes everyone from supposed alien abduction victims to ghost chasers and opponents of the Bilderburg Agenda?

[ccbatson]

Nothing wrong with it..just not a credible venue for credible people.

[rb336]

Wrong. Very wrong. She wrote extensively about the corruption she found within the Bush administration. You are shooting the wrong messenger unless her sin was to note the corruption under both Republicans and Democrats. Here is a list of people both democrat and repubican that she reemed in just one of her articles.
http://www.dunwalke.com/resources/people.htm
Try to fit this Fitts story to your statement.
"Brady, Bush, Bechtel, and "the boys"

Here is a sample from that article linking Bush I with drug running operations. "Thanks to numerous journalists and members of the enforcement community, the documentation on Mena drug running and the related money laundering is quite serious and makes the case that the government was engaged or complicit in significant narcotics trafficking. This includes the various relationships to employees of the National Security Council, the Department of Justice and the CIA under Vice President Bush’s leadership"

Don't believe everything you read on Wonkette.

everything i have read from her previously seems to skirt her years in the Bush I admin. this looks more interesting. what the heck is wonkette?

[oladub]

Fitts is very even handed in her scornful reports on what happened in each administration. She is convinced that housing agencies have been used to funnel money into military/security black budget items. Her solution, and she says it to anyone who will listen, is that we must invest in our own communities. I think she is too inflamatory and has the goods on too many politicians to be allowed on Larry King or Chris Matthews. I mean, they don't want to discuss the Bush and Clinton involvement in Mena, Arkansas CIA drug trafficing. That gets a little tricky. Its much safer to discuss Michael Jackson's legacy.

Wonkette? My attempt at a sarcastic funny. Wonkette is a sort of PC DC gossip. http://wonkette.com/ For instance, instead of considering why the president Obama is visiting the Italian Prime Minister for the second time since the $134B of treasuries were being smuggled out of Italy on June 3rd, the PM's party life is discussed.