A National Disgrace: Documentary on Detroit Public Schools

**Hypestyles** · May-11-11, 10:52 AM

Dan Rather heads up a documentary in his ongoing series of specials produced with HDNet, on the state of the Detroit Public Schools.. it's supposed to repeat several times this week, and on Itunes, AT&T, DirecTV, DishNetwork.. but not on Comcast [[arghh!)

some preview clips-
http://tinyurl.com/63tpxrx

http://www.hd.net/programs/danrather/
..based on the preview clips shown, Rather and company must have gotten started at least a year or so ago.. they include interview footage with Otis Mathis and "reverend" David Murray..

**SWMAP** · May-11-11, 11:26 AM

Reverend is Murray's legal first name. He had it legally changed and it doesn't necessarily signify that he is a minister - although he does claim that,too.
He just knew it would get a lot of votes in the city of detroit and a lot of respect if he could use Reverend in front of his other names. That's the kind of leaders wehave - really bogus.

**stromberg2** · May-11-11, 12:52 PM

That guy is really........off. I speak of the good Rev.

Stromberg2

**maxx** · May-11-11, 12:57 PM

Originally Posted by SWMAP

Reverend is Murray's legal first name. He had it legally changed and it doesn't necessarily signify that he is a minister - although he does claim that,too.
He just knew it would get a lot of votes in the city of detroit and a lot of respect if he could use Reverend in front of his other names. That's the kind of leaders wehave - really bogus.

He should be addressed as Mr. Reverend Murray then.

Does Rather extend the responsibility for a child's educational success to parents and families at all?

**gnome** · May-11-11, 02:22 PM

What's the frequency, Kenneth?

**Hypestyles** · May-11-11, 09:48 PM

whoever gets to see this, let us know.. wish it was across all cable formats..

**English** · May-12-11, 12:09 AM

^ Agreed. It was on Comcast's HDNet channel. Well, I don't have HD TV, and don't subscribe to that channel. Surprised that none of the major networks have picked this up... yet.

**wilderness** · May-12-11, 07:14 AM

On iTunes for $1.99

Rather; A National Disgrace

**majohnson** · May-15-11, 11:39 PM

http://detnews.com/article/20110515/...Public-Schools

Detroit News columnist Nolan Finley saids DPS should be dismantled.
"DPS can't be saved. It pushed beyond the tipping point years ago, and must be allowed to slide into oblivion."

**professorscott** · May-15-11, 11:41 PM

Fascinating article. I'm astonished it took so many hours for someone on DY to start a thread about it. I'm not going to comment yet; I'm curious to see what, if anything, others post.

**Wesley Mouch** · May-16-11, 12:20 AM

Originally Posted by professorscott

Fascinating article. I'm astonished it took so many hours for someone on DY to start a thread about it. I'm not going to comment yet; I'm curious to see what, if anything, others post.

Am also surprised no immediate reaction to Mr. Finley.

What do I think?

Do what's best for the kids.

The future of our city depends on education for its residents. I'm in favor of good education. Everything else doesn't matter.

**SWMAP** · May-16-11, 06:04 AM

The Free Press' Steven Henderson said the very same thing last Sunday, but as if it is widely accepted on some civic level: dismantle DPS and create a "constellation" of smaller districts. I agree that this is the only solution to the problem of a huge money-machine now being operated as a patronage enterprise. Reduce the money available to any one "district" thru the mechanism of having several, and increase scrutiny and local accountabilty.

**oldredfordette** · May-16-11, 07:03 AM

Union busting class war. And Nolan is for it???? Shocking.

**iheartthed** · May-16-11, 07:17 AM

Not sure what he's smoking if he thinks charter schools will be any more accountable to parents than the current school system.

**oldredfordette** · May-16-11, 07:58 AM

He knows it, he just wants his friends to make money on for-profit schools.

bartock · May-16-11, 08:16 AM

Originally Posted by oldredfordette

Union busting class war. And Nolan is for it???? Shocking.

Dismantling DPS = Union busting class war? What an utterly ridiculous statement. The union will bust itself as the DPS continues to bleed out students to [[mostly) other public school districts WITH UNION EMPLOYEES.

Is status quo working? Somehow, "send more money, just don't tell us what to do with it" is better off in the hands of administrators who steal it or have no idea what to do with it than it might be in the hands of others who might end up being more accountable?

Although the rhetoric may sound cool, at this point it is just lazy to suggest some grand conspiracy theory with respect to any other idea [[recipe: pick anyone who is not politically left of the left, toss out something about "corporate buddies" getting rich and "class warfare" as though it means something, ignore corruption and other existing problems...rinse and repeat for 40 years).

**Bham1982** · May-16-11, 10:21 AM

The problem is that Detroit charter schools don't have better outcomes than DPS.

I'm not anti-charter, and I'm definitely not pro-DPS, but the charter school test results are very, very discouraging.

The problem, obviously, is much bigger than DPS, and I don't think elimination of the DPS boogeyman necessarily reduces the problem.

**rhythmc** · May-16-11, 10:29 AM

If DPS is allowed to die, where will the students go? Charter schools? I'm not sure I would trust them anymore than I would trust DPS.

Why not let the students pick up there dollars and take them to any of the high performing, neighboring districts?

I watched the "A National Disgrace" program and was appalled at the disorder created by those running the district. It really permeates everything from financial controls at the district level to how schools are run on a daily. How can you have classes scheduled in which you don't have any instructor?

It is my belief that the emergency manager should be allowed to do his job. I view the school board as obstructionists whose only concerns are with maintaining their elected positions and whatever other benefits may come from such position [[pay, etc). What's worse is the students of Detroit who want an education know they are being shortchanged have no viable recourse.

Students need to be untethered from the DPS and allowed to go wherever for the education they are promised and an emergency manager needs to have the ability to close the district and work on whatever controls are needed to ensure that this disgrace is dealt with. For those who will complain about job losses, eff them. If you capably do your job, you should have no problem going elsewhere.

**rjk** · May-16-11, 10:38 AM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

The problem is that Detroit charter schools don't have better outcomes than DPS.

I'm not anti-charter, and I'm definitely not pro-DPS, but the charter school test results are very, very discouraging.

The problem, obviously, is much bigger than DPS, and I don't think elimination of the DPS boogeyman necessarily reduces the problem.

Where are the stats on that?
I would assume that there are some good charter schools just like there are some good DPS schools.
I don't see what's wrong with replacing historically underachieving DPS schools with charter schools.
Unlike public schools you don't have to give them a guaranteed existence. If they don't meet a certain standard get rid of them.

**bailey** · May-16-11, 10:46 AM

Why not let the students pick up there dollars and take them to any of the high performing, neighboring districts?

they already have that...it's called schools of choice.

**iheartthed** · May-16-11, 10:46 AM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

The problem is that Detroit charter schools don't have better outcomes than DPS.

I'm not anti-charter, and I'm definitely not pro-DPS, but the charter school test results are very, very discouraging.

The problem, obviously, is much bigger than DPS, and I don't think elimination of the DPS boogeyman necessarily reduces the problem.

Exactly. And Finley is smoking something if he honestly believes that charter schools will be the panacea.

**mwilbert** · May-16-11, 10:47 AM

Since I've been suggesting an end to the DPS for a long time, I can hardly disagree with the oft-odious Mr. Finley, although naturally he bashes the teachers' unions, which don't seem to be the main problem.

But I agree with all the people who don't think that by itself that is going to solve anything. The charters seem to be mostly awful. The neighboring school districts mostly aren't particularly good. The difference is that you can imagine replacing bad charters, and innovating within that more decentralized structure, but it is very hard to imagine fixing the DPS.

**iheartthed** · May-16-11, 10:51 AM

Originally Posted by rjk

Where are the stats on that?
I would assume that there are some good charter schools just like there are some good DPS schools.
I don't see what's wrong with replacing historically underachieving DPS schools with charter schools.
Unlike public schools you don't have to give them a guaranteed existence. If they don't meet a certain standard get rid of them.

There is a thread on this forum about it. I don't recall the name of it off the top of my head, but it was prompted by a study written about in one of the dailies. The gist of it was that the charter students didn't perform any better on standardized tests than their public school counterparts. And charter schools aren't saddled with the legacy costs of contract obligations, and in general aren't burdened with special needs children like the public system.

**Bham1982** · May-16-11, 11:00 AM

Originally Posted by rjk

Where are the stats on that?

Unfortunately I don't have available stats, but I have seen the comparative studies in my previous employment. I assume the Michigan Dept. of Education has school-based aggregate test scores on their website.

Generally speaking, charter schools don't outperform apples-to-apples public schools. And, specific to Detroit, test scores [[MEAP, ACT and the like) for Detroit-based charters aren't any better than DPS. This is unfortunate but true.

I'm no educator or researcher, though. Forumers like English undoubtedly have greater insight on the issue.

BTW, one can "get rid of" underperforming public schools just as one can with charter schools. Every year, for example, NYC schools shut down the bottom x% of schools.

**rhythmc** · May-16-11, 12:03 PM

Originally Posted by bailey

they already have that...it's called schools of choice.

That program allows the districts, if it wants to participate, enroll students from outside of its district. You are correct in that. However, whether the participants are the higher quality schools is debatable. From what I can see, the schools that are on par with DPS offer unlimited enrollment participations whereas those that are quite a bit better limit enrollment at the grade levels where it is most beneficial for students to get out of failing schools.