Looking for consumers of Detroit Water who were vastly !!! overestimated late 2010

[Ripley]

I'll keep this as short as possible.

My Grandmother , who just passed away in March , has lived at this Detroit address for over 40 years. Just to note.

Our average water bill is from 50 $ a month to 80 in the summer months [[ 3 to 20 in consumption at it's highest in July 2010 ) . Note last summer 80% of our plumbing fixtures were replaced as well as a new energy saving water tank.

Our November bill oddly was , ready ??? 150 !!!! [[ note - from October 29th to Nov. 22 our basement toilet had been running. I had been in the hospital and no one was here. I had a neighbor shut it off on the 22nd. )

and yet , with no leaks , our December consumption was 114 !!! [[ obvious the toilet being shut off reflected. )

pre November that toilet has always been shut off after use.... [[ it's the last fixture not replaced , but hardly used.)

after 2 techs came to check [[ the first didn't do a thing nor even test anything yet reported our toilet had been leaking for 6 months ! ?? don't know where she came up with that ... the toilet if had been used and left running would have been running for the last 10 years easily ! )

the second tech who came in January after I requested a hearing [[ of which yet after 4 calls and going down to DWSD yesterday )... who had me turn on the water to see if the meter was running , admitted that many customers have had the same crazy bills ! He told me I'd have to be watering my lawn and my neighbors daily to use that much ! I did get his badge number . He stated they weren't allowed to give their names out.

Monday , the reason I went to DWSD yesterday , 2 techs showed up to shut the water off , but held back after finding out I did indeed apply for a hearing . Those two , whom I forgot to get badge numbers , but DWSD does in fact by their records know who was sent out , agreed and admitted DWSD customers had been faced with similar outrageous bills and consumption for the last few months of 2010. They also told me that DWSD actually is aware of this !!

It was only I an my grandmother . our water consumption has always been small. Leaks we have always taken care of .

I'm looking for those other customers whom Detroit Water and Sewage has done the same to.

note -
those electronic systems that Detroit water and sewage installed on homes ? ours I had found twice open . Had told techs and even called DWSD at the time yet no concern from them , yet was told yesterday that those systems are the customers responsibility to keep up !! I was also told that those systems , by the techs that were here Monday who actually looked at it and agreed that it had been opened , that it was an outsourced contract .. if that makes any difference.

[Richard]

A constantly running toilet can dump up to 6000 gallons a month,if they charge you separate for waste maybe you can have the bill adjusted on that aspect?

On the new electronic meters aspect ,there has been problems all over the country with these meters with lots of investigations going on,where I am at the city council forced the city water dept to investigate why people were getting $4000 and $5000 water bills all of the sudden from $200 but so far in all cases across the country nobody seems to be taking responsibility whether it be the water supplier or the meter manufacture it is all-ways the homeowners fault.

[[No little rolling eyes smily emotion)

[SWMAP]

The DWSD did outsource the installation of the radio meters, but only for three years. That contract is over and currently the DWSD manages installation and repairs. I had a meter tech at my house just last week [[not a big issue) and I noted that many of my neighbors do not have the radio meter. The DWSD employee said that really a lot of people don't have them and that, to get a meter read [[to get a real bill) they will have to pay $30 for a personal meter reading. Of course, you have to get a reading to get a real bill and you have to pay your bill or else the city will put the outstanding amount [[real or estimated) on your city taxes. I found out the hard way about that after my neighbors never let my meter be read following a fence and "Beware of Dog sign."

Your issue seems to be whether the radio meter is accurate and how often it is being read. Your best bet is to read your own meter in the basement and keep track of the numbers and dates. If possible, find out when they read your meter. Not sure if monthly. But on or near that day you should record your basement reading, for your records.

Say DWSD radio-read your meter in November - the bad month for toilet leak, as you acknowledge, and then estimated in December - they may estimate based on a very bad previous month just previous.

But since then, determine if your radio meter has indeeed been read [[what date) and ask for that reading. Compare it to the numbers on your bill and the numbers on your inside meter [[I think there is some information online that tells you what the the numbers on your inside meter mean in terms of usage). THEN, if there is a good discrepancy, ask for a personal, inside meter reading and try to get the $30 fee waived.

I can tell you that it is REALLY unlikely that your inside meter is incorrect - especially if new. But, of course, the outside meters reporting by radio-frequency may be error-prone. That's what you have to determine and report on at your hearing.

[Ripley]

irregardless of the toilet running .... which shows the adjustment for it being shut off on Nov. 22 in Decembers bill .... still leaves a huge unaccountable consumption by their part... for both months.

they also stated this was actual , not estimated.

if the meter was the problem wouldn't the problem be constant ?? or could it be intermittent ? could it be the functionality of the equipment at the main Detroit facility that receives the reading ? again in those months I as stated by 3 DWSD techs was not the only one !

and as they stated Monday DWSD is aware of this .... and doing nothing.


If I can get more people to come forward ... something has to be done.

[Ripley]

I'm not suggesting the inside meter is incorrect. although I do fail to see how just turning a faucet on and seeing that it's running is a conclusive test by the tech as to it's metering capabilities.

something is rotten in Denmark and it isn't in my home !!

[Jimaz]

I'm not sure if this will help but I've read that if you turn off every water outlet in the house and the little triangle indicator in the meter is still moving, that means you have an unseen leak somewhere. Otherwise you don't.

Also, in some areas, if your water usage increases above a certain threshold [[possibly due to an unknown leak), you'll be charged at a higher rate resulting in a surprising leap in your bill.

I'm not saying this applies to your situation. I'm just saying it in case it benefits anyone.

Good luck. Stay wet.

[old guy]

Might be some info here.
http://www.detroityes.com/mb/showthr...lling-Problems

[Huggybear]

Or is one of the neighbors tapping off mom's garden hose?

[Ripley]

I'm not sure if this will help but I've read that if you turn off every water outlet in the house and the little triangle indicator in the meter is still moving, that means you have an unseen leak somewhere. Otherwise you don't.

Also, in some areas, if your water usage increases above a certain threshold [[possibly due to an unknown leak), you'll be charged at a higher rate resulting in a surprising leap in your bill.

I'm not saying this applies to your situation. I'm just saying it in case it benefits anyone.

Good luck. Stay wet.

when the tech came and 'tested' the meter was not running or moving until the tap about 10 feet away from the meter in our basement was turned on. There is no leak.

that's the point ... other than the toilet that was left running for about 23 days , we have no leak. again .. the toilet being shut off is reflected in the next bill.

My gran had been [[ she just passed away in March ) at this address for over 40 years. only once before had she a leak ... that same toilet , about 20 years ago when it's 'guts' were replaced.

there was only her and I here. She during those last months , since September , had been given baths in bed ... a couple of gallons in a bucket. Once a week I'd wrangle her into the shower.

Our water consumption has always been low.