Secretary LaHood at Detroit Amtrak Depot 2:30 PM today

**renf** · May-09-11, 07:03 AM

I believe that Secretary of Transportation LaHood will visit the Amtrak depot on Baltimore in Detroit today. He will likely announce the availability of federal funds to allow the state to purchase and refurbish the former Michigan Central line from
Detroit to K-Zoo. I presume this ceremony is open to the public.

**BShea** · May-09-11, 10:35 AM

Not specifically sure if it's open to the public, but it will be outside, I believe. Media advisory went out last week.

Michigan's push for high-speed rail line to get $200 million push from feds today

By Bill Shea
Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood is expected to announce today nearly $200 million in federal aid to bolster the portion of a proposed high-speed commuter rail line between Detroit and Kalamazoo.
The Federal Railroad Administration money being awarded today to the Michigan Department of Transportation breaks down as follows:
• Kalamazoo-Dearborn: $196.5 million to rehabilitate track and signal systems, bringing trains eventually up to speeds of 110 mph on a 235-mile section of the Chicago-to-Detroit corridor and reducing trip times by 30 minutes.
• Ann Arbor: $2.8 million for an engineering and environmental analysis to construct a new high-speed rail station in Ann Arbor that will allow more than one train to serve the station simultaneously.
• Michigan, along with Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, and Missouri, jointly has been awarded $268.2 million to buy 48 high-performance passenger rail cars and seven quick-acceleration locomotives for eight corridors in those states.

Link to full story

**MaxSpeed** · May-09-11, 10:41 AM

That's good news

**professorscott** · May-09-11, 11:01 AM

I believe there is also seven-point-something million to fix the ridiculous curve in the New Center area that takes the trains several minutes to negotiate at very low speed. Good news indeed! I wonder if this makes Carmine Palombo's job of implementing the Ann Arbor to Detroit Commuter Rail any easier.

**EL Jimbo** · May-09-11, 11:07 AM

Originally Posted by professorscott

I believe there is also seven-point-something million to fix the ridiculous curve in the New Center area that takes the trains several minutes to negotiate at very low speed. Good news indeed! I wonder if this makes Carmine Palombo's job of implementing the Ann Arbor to Detroit Commuter Rail any easier.

I'll ask him next time I talk to him.

**DetroiterOnTheWestCoast** · May-09-11, 02:56 PM

Say thanks to Florida for turning down the funds!

**bailey** · May-09-11, 03:10 PM

Originally Posted by DetroiterOnTheWestCoast

Say thanks to Florida for turning down the funds!

Didn't florida turn down several billion? Why didn't we get ALL of it?

**Malcove Magnesia** · May-09-11, 03:11 PM

I definitely thank Florida for turning down the funds, but didn't they have a good reason for turning the funds down? I believe that over and above the stimulus funds, Florida couldn't afford the additional costs of building the infrastructure and/or actually running the trains.

And if Florida can't afford the investment and running costs, can Michigan?

And why does fixing a curve have to cost 7-point-something freaking million dollars? does that include a new bridge or two or a few miles of gold spikes or whatever?

**Bham1982** · May-09-11, 03:18 PM

Excellent news, though I wish Metro Detroit would get the rail station funds instead of Ann Arbor.

It would be nice to have one decent station in the tri-county area.

**Melocoton** · May-09-11, 03:22 PM

Originally Posted by Malcove Magnesia

I definitely thank Florida for turning down the funds, but didn't they have a good reason for turning the funds down?

Yes, they have a tea-party Republican governor who wanted to make a political point.

The Freep describes the 110 mph train to Chicago as "high speed rail," which is really stretching the possible meanings of that phrase. I'm glad the Detroit-Chicago travel times will improve--if it knocks 30 minutes off the trip, it might bring it about equal to a car trip--but that ain't "high speed" to me.

**iheartthed** · May-09-11, 03:28 PM

Originally Posted by bailey

Didn't florida turn down several billion? Why didn't we get ALL of it?

They split the funds across 15 states. The Detroit to Chicago got a large amount of what was doled out. I believe only the Northeast corridor received more than Det-Chi.

**EL Jimbo** · May-09-11, 03:30 PM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

Excellent news, though I wish Metro Detroit would get the rail station funds instead of Ann Arbor.

It would be nice to have one decent station in the tri-county area.

I thought the New Center Intermodal Station was already being done?

**Bham1982** · May-09-11, 03:54 PM

Originally Posted by EL Jimbo

I thought the New Center Intermodal Station was already being done?

Really?

That's great news if true, but I have never heard such a thing. It would certainly be a nice investment.

**DTWflyer** · May-09-11, 10:38 PM

If they knock 30 minutes off great, but more importantly make the schedule reliable and consistant.

Every time I've taken the train to Chicago, I get so annoyed at the trip on the way back from K-zoo to Detroit I swear I'm never going to take the train again.

It seems that more times than not the train runs 1-2 hours late because of frieght trains or poor track conditions. Last summer there was a stretch of track around Albion or Coldwater where the speed was limited to 15 mph.

Just make the service consistant and it will work. The train is very popular on weekends, I've seen plenty of packed trains, in both directions on Fridays and Sundays.

I know people that I work with at my firm that when going to Chicago on business take the train from Birmingham or Dearborn.

**milesdriven** · May-10-11, 12:25 AM

It will be worthwhile if the trains can maintain a speed of 110 mph for the majority of the trip. We already have a highway capable of these speeds, but there's always these pesky Ford Crown Victorias and Dodge Chargers parked in the middle that force traffic to slow down.

**Hypestyles** · May-10-11, 02:16 PM

the next step needs to be nationalizing the railways. the way things are now, it would be like Halliburton and other groups owning the highways...

thatguy123 · May-10-11, 04:27 PM

Originally Posted by bailey

Didn't florida turn down several billion? Why didn't we get ALL of it?

Because Detroit isn't the center of the universe.

**mikeg19** · May-10-11, 04:43 PM

So they are going to give California 220mph train technology, the east coast is bumping up trains to 140, and we are getting 100mph trains that aren't going to be non-stop to Chicago? All of this in the name of saving 30 minutes? Seems like a huge waste of $200 million dollars. Set up a HIGH SPEED rail network [[220mph) directly to Chicago and get me there in 2 hours with 1 stop or no stops and I'll use it. 30 minutes isn't going to make me take the train. Cut that trip from the 5-6 hours in a car to 2-2.5 on the train, and I bet a Hell of a lot of people would use that.

**EL Jimbo** · May-10-11, 05:08 PM

Originally Posted by mikeg19

So they are going to give California 220mph train technology, the east coast is bumping up trains to 140, and we are getting 100mph trains that aren't going to be non-stop to Chicago? All of this in the name of saving 30 minutes? Seems like a huge waste of $200 million dollars. Set up a HIGH SPEED rail network [[220mph) directly to Chicago and get me there in 2 hours with 1 stop or no stops and I'll use it. 30 minutes isn't going to make me take the train. Cut that trip from the 5-6 hours in a car to 2-2.5 on the train, and I bet a Hell of a lot of people would use that.

OK. Either you are or listen to Mike Valenti because that is almost verbatim what he said on his radio show today. You do realize that to do a true high speed rail between here and Chicago, we would need probably 10 times that $200 million number just to build it and even that is probably a low number.

**ghettopalmetto** · May-10-11, 05:12 PM

Originally Posted by mikeg19

So they are going to give California 220mph train technology, the east coast is bumping up trains to 140, and we are getting 100mph trains that aren't going to be non-stop to Chicago? All of this in the name of saving 30 minutes? Seems like a huge waste of $200 million dollars. Set up a HIGH SPEED rail network [[220mph) directly to Chicago and get me there in 2 hours with 1 stop or no stops and I'll use it. 30 minutes isn't going to make me take the train. Cut that trip from the 5-6 hours in a car to 2-2.5 on the train, and I bet a Hell of a lot of people would use that.

No place, and I mean NO place in the world has gone from "virtually zero" rail service to 220 mph high speed rail. France spent decades, dating back to the 1960s, upgrading its rail system before embarking on TGV. California is getting 220 mph service because it *planned* for it, and they too have spent decades establishing a strong [[state-funded) passenger rail network [[California intercity service is the second-busiest rail corridor in the United States).

Even still, even a high speed rail network requires a strong lower-speed regional system to distribute passengers from the "hub" stations to the smaller cities. We don't even have that. Outside of the northeast, our passenger rail system would be an embarrassment to a former Soviet bloc nation.

Just the same as you don't go from horse-and-buggy-on-dirt-roads to interstate highways, you need to have incremental improvements first to develop rail ridership that will justify investment in true high speed rail.

**mikeg19** · May-10-11, 07:04 PM

I actually didn't hear that on the show today! And I usually listen to them. Don't get me wrong, I understand you don't go from 55mph to 220 overnight. I'm not unrealistic. I just don't understand why the Detroit-Ann Arbor-Chicago line isn't a priority to eventually get to the 220 mark. I'm by no means a railroad engineer, but is this $200 million upgrade a stepping stone to a high speed rail line from Detroit to Chicago? Or is it just a little bit of an upgrade? Because if someone tells me that $200 million went to shave off 30 minutes of my commute, I don't see the justification. I'm not saying turn down free money from the government! I'm just saying is this is best use for the rairoad?

**ghettopalmetto** · May-10-11, 07:13 PM

Originally Posted by mikeg19

I'm by no means a railroad engineer, but is this $200 million upgrade a stepping stone to a high speed rail line from Detroit to Chicago? Or is it just a little bit of an upgrade? Because if someone tells me that $200 million went to shave off 30 minutes of my commute, I don't see the justification. I'm not saying turn down free money from the government! I'm just saying is this is best use for the rairoad?

I think the more urgent goal is, "Let's at least get a halfway decent rail system up-and-running first, and concern ourselves with 220 mph speeds later." The issue being that funds are limited, our rail system is a shell of its former self, and as we get into the higher realms of speed, the infrastructure investments become massive and are unjustified without significant ridership. As it is, the busiest stations in most states have ridership levels comparable to podunk European towns. I've seen cities of 200,000 people that have 40 trains a day. That's more service than all but a handful of the largest cities in the United States.

True high speed rail may happen in the very distant future that some of these corridors are upgraded to "TGV"-style service [[as in California and eventually, the Northeast). If we do ever embark on true high-speed rail, we will at least have a decent regional system in place to support it. Building 220 mph rail alone would be analogous to a system of Interstate highways without local roads.

For what it's worth, MDOT proposed a $1 billion+ widening of I-75 that its consultants determined would save each driver a whopping one minute if they drove the entire widened stretch. In that context, $200 million to save 30 minutes each way into perpetuity is a bargain.

**Magnatomicflux** · May-10-11, 07:35 PM

Originally Posted by Malcove Magnesia

And why does fixing a curve have to cost 7-point-something freaking million dollars? does that include a new bridge or two or a few miles of gold spikes or whatever?

I'm pretty sure rail above 79mph is something like 2-3million USD per mile. I don't know if that includes any new property that need to be bought, or if it includes signals and switches.

How long is this curve? Anyone know?

**jtf1972** · May-10-11, 07:53 PM

True investment in rail won't happen until the airlines are taken over by the feds [[think it won't happen? how much is jet fuel going for these days?) Then a comprehensive plan needs to be installed tying air & rail together, eliminating shorter redundant flights. It may be half a century off, but eventually it will need to be done for efficient travel, as the current system is not sustainable.

**ghettopalmetto** · May-10-11, 07:57 PM

Originally Posted by jtf1972

True investment in rail won't happen until the airlines are taken over by the feds [[think it won't happen? how much is jet fuel going for these days?) Then a comprehensive plan needs to be installed tying air & rail together, eliminating shorter redundant flights. It may be half a century off, but eventually it will need to be done for efficient travel, as the current system is not sustainable.

I think the airlines would love nothing more than the shed themselves of the money-losing short-haul flights, just as they've done in Europe. It makes no sense to wait an hour for a connecting flight when your final destination is less than an hour's flight time away. Of course, to do so now means that passengers in non-hub cities have no way of getting to their plane, or from the hub airport back to their home city.

In the past decade, Continental has introduced code-sharing with Amtrak out of its hub in Newark. For example, you can go on continental.com and book a flight to Wilmington, Providence, or even Philadelphia 30th Street Station, with an air-to-rail connection at Newark International Airport. And yes, you earn frequent flyer miles for the rail portion of the journey. Continental also used to have a similar agreement with SNCF [[the French national railway), but I'm not sure that survived Continental joining the Star Alliance of airlines.