Detroit seeks to eliminate 3 bus routes, cut hours on others

**begingri** · May-07-11, 11:26 PM

BY MATT HELMS

DETROIT FREE PRESS STAFF WRITER

The City of Detroit is proposing another heavy round of bus service cuts that would eliminate three routes, end 24-hour service and reduce weekend trips throughout the city.

Transit advocates are working to blunt or reverse some of the Detroit Department of Transportation's planned reductions, the latest in a years-long decrease of bus routes and frequency of runs. Detroit's budget crisis, which threatens state intervention, is now pushing cuts onto some of the city's busiest bus routes.

Megan Owens, executive director of Transportation Riders United, said Friday that riders and the bus system are facing a downward spiral of reduced services she worries will only continue to damage the city's ability to provide basic public transit.

"What they're saying is, with gas prices going up, with health care and pension costs going up, and with state revenues cut and city revenues staying flat ... they just can't afford to operate at current levels," Owens said.

Continued at: http://www.freep.com/article/2011050...0348/1001/news

**professorscott** · May-08-11, 12:06 AM

Well, I'm a bus rider, but shit, what do people expect? DDOT asked City Council for a fare increase; Council said no; the City is dead effing broke.

What do people expect?

Detroit, rather than cutting every few months, ought to completely rethink how it provides bus service, but I haven't met anyone involved with DDOT who is even trying to have that conversation. It's always "let's do exactly what we did yesterday, only less". Shameful but what do you do?

**Russix** · May-08-11, 01:57 AM

My expectations were cut 5 years ago. This is chicken and egg theory. No one rides a terribly inadequate bus system so we should cut it some more. Is this part of the plan to shrink the city?

**Crumbled_pavement** · May-08-11, 04:26 AM

Nails in the coffin...

**Hermod** · May-08-11, 05:18 AM

Originally Posted by Russix

My expectations were cut 5 years ago. This is chicken and egg theory. No one rides a terribly inadequate bus system so we should cut it some more. Is this part of the plan to shrink the city?

You had the same death spiral with privately owned passenger transit, both rail and bus.

Public transit cannot pay for itself out of the fare box.

**canuck** · May-08-11, 07:52 AM

Originally Posted by Hermod

You had the same death spiral with privately owned passenger transit, both rail and bus.

Public transit cannot pay for itself out of the fare box.

Evidently, private transportation provided by GM and Chrysler couldnt quite pay for itself either, hence a hefty bailout by the people...

**epiphany** · May-08-11, 08:04 AM

Cutting bus service on Sundays and getting rid of 24 hour routes is enough to make a bus reliant person like me move in a heartbeat. Just because it is Sunday doesn't mean that a person doesn't need to get to work. I am very fortunate that I can rely on SMART and my bike to get me to where I need at the moment... otherwise I would be in trouble with these cuts.

**Zacha341** · May-08-11, 08:21 AM

LOL! That was good! Good point!!

Originally Posted by canuck

Evidently, private transportation provided by GM and Chrysler couldnt quite pay for itself either, hence a hefty bailout by the people...

**Zacha341** · May-08-11, 08:26 AM

I was raised catching the buss throughout my teens and early twenties and once I got into driving I've been holding on to the privilege and advantage of driving with a 'death' grip! Yet I've had my cars down for repairs and have had to use the local/ suburban buses -- troubles me that the few people who can work cannot get to their jobs -- many of which are not in Detroit.

I suspect more people will will drive without insurance or a drivers license behind this... not that I am justifying that: I have a license and proper insurance on my old heap of a a car, but I know that some people drive 'now' without car insurance on both new and used cars.

Expect that trend to increase..... Lack of transpo is only making living in Detroit more grim, and inconvenient, 'isolating' and desperate........

Originally Posted by epiphany

Cutting bus service on Sundays and getting rid of 24 hour routes is enough to make a bus reliant person like me move in a heartbeat. Just because it is Sunday doesn't mean that a person doesn't need to get to work. I am very fortunate that I can rely on SMART and my bike to get me to where I need at the moment... otherwise I would be in trouble with these cuts.

**Zacha341** · May-08-11, 08:30 AM

On many levels indeed!

Originally Posted by Crumbled_pavement

Nails in the coffin...

**DetroitPlanner** · May-08-11, 11:19 AM

If DDOT can't afford to keep the buses rolling how is it going to afford rail? As I have said before we need to seriously look at how we fund transportation around here and make changes. The gas tax can't support all of these needs [[no less all of the wants folks seem to have for trains, road widenings, bicycle infastructure.....)

**epiphany** · May-08-11, 11:37 AM

Originally Posted by Zacha341

I was raised catching the buss throughout my teens and early twenties and once I got into driving I've been holding on to the privilege and advantage of driving with a 'death' grip, yet I've had my cars down for repairs and have had to use the local/ suburban buses -- troubles me that the few people who can work cannot get to their jobs -- many of which are not in Detroit.

I suspect more people will will drive without insurance or a drivers license behind this... not that I am justifying that: I have a license and proper insurance on my old heap of a a car, but I know that some people drive 'now' without car insurance on both new and used cars.

Expect that trend to increase..... Lack of transpo is only making living in Detroit more grim, and inconvenient, 'isolating' and desperate........

Yeah, I just got my license back after having it suspended for driving without insurance in Alabama and then getting into a car accident which was not my fault. I really don't want to deal with that again, lol. I would definitely drive if car insurance wasn't so outrageous here, but on my budget it really isn't an option.

**professorscott** · May-08-11, 12:10 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

If DDOT can't afford to keep the buses rolling how is it going to afford rail? As I have said before we need to seriously look at how we fund transportation around here and make changes. The gas tax can't support all of these needs [[no less all of the wants folks seem to have for trains, road widenings, bicycle infastructure.....)

Here's what I think is going to happen: once they have the Woodward light rail up and running, there won't be as much demand for the local Woodward bus, so after a year or so they will be able to justify running it less often. It is cheaper to run a light rail vehicle than a local bus for three reasons: the energy cost per trip-mile is less, the train makes the trip in less time than the bus so your labor per hour pulls more people more miles, and the train holds more people so again your labor cost per passenger-mile is lower.

In the long run, also, light rail vehicles have a lower per-mile maintenance cost than buses in local service because they don't stop and start as often and because a motor is much cheaper to keep in service than a diesel engine. Actually it would save DDOT a lot of money overall, operation cost wise, if they could put trains on Woodward, Gratiot and Grand River, but the capital cost is too much to bear. At the moment.

**Rocko** · May-08-11, 12:20 PM

There's another thread on this going: http://www.detroityes.com/mb/showthr...-for-June-2011. Check it out!

There are 7 public comment meetings set for this week where DDOT will detail these changes and allow the public to comment about these proposed cuts. I'm going to try to attend one of the meetings to offer my input about these changes [["why are fare increases not being considered before just simply cutting more service.....?" see the link above for more on this). If transit is important to you, even if you don't use it, this is the opportunity for you to speak out on this topic. DDOT is also accepting emails and letters on the topic. I wrote one letter already.

Public hearings will be held May 10 thru 13, 2011. For more info see:
http://www.detroitmi.gov/portals/0/docs/deptoftransportation/PDFs/2011/SERVICE_CHANGE_BOOKLET_FOR_JUNE_2011.PDF

**Crumbled_pavement** · May-08-11, 01:35 PM

Originally Posted by Rocko

There's another thread on this going: http://www.detroityes.com/mb/showthr...-for-June-2011. Check it out!

There are 7 public comment meetings set for this week where DDOT will detail these changes and allow the public to comment about these proposed cuts. I'm going to try to attend one of the meetings to offer my input about these changes [["why are fare increases not being considered before just simply cutting more service.....?" see the link above for more on this). If transit is important to you, even if you don't use it, this is the opportunity for you to speak out on this topic. DDOT is also accepting emails and letters on the topic. I wrote one letter already.

Public hearings will be held May 10 thru 13, 2011. For more info see:
http://www.detroitmi.gov/portals/0/docs/deptoftransportation/PDFs/2011/SERVICE_CHANGE_BOOKLET_FOR_JUNE_2011.PDF

My problem is I don't know how I feel about this issue. If the money isn't there, it isn't there. The issue that comes in to play is that the less services the city provides while still charging the same taxes the more people leave. The more people that leave the less tax base is left to collect from and the more services have to be cut. The cycle continues and continues. This area is so exasperating. It seems Detroit will never just hit the bottom so we can start climbing up again. We're just free falling in a bottomless pit.

**professorscott** · May-08-11, 02:28 PM

Well, the solution to providing public transportation could kind of line up with the Mayor's overall vision for the city: concentrating services in the areas where lots of people still live. Then it wouldn't be a matter of cutting but rather of a complete redesign of bus service.

DDOT still provides service on a grid, which might have made sense when there were 1.8 million people and the DSR provided a billion passenger-trips a year, but it doesn't make sense anymore, and the cuts just reduce the availability of what is left to those who remain. It is worth remembering that, while Detroit has lost perhaps 58% of its population since the mid 1950s, it has reduced transit service [[measured in trips per week) by well over 90%.

A better system for Detroit would be a hubs-and-spokes system, with a mini transit center in the core of each thriving neighborhood, frequent service between these transit centers, and buses - perhaps small ones - providing trips from the hubs into the neighborhoods and business areas. But this would be a complete redesign and I don't think Detroit has anyone on staff who is able to, and has the time to, do such a thing. Of course if Detroit would like to do something bold like this, your kindly old Professor would be happy to help

**Zacha341** · May-08-11, 07:07 PM

Yeah, insurance is sky high. That's why I don't have a new car.... I only purchase cash cars used. Who can afford a car note AND car insurance? I can do one but not the other. And you see folks with crushed-in beat up new cars, never repaired because they did not have car insurance. Just crazy~!

Originally Posted by epiphany

Yeah, I just got my license back after having it suspended for driving without insurance in Alabama and then getting into a car accident which was not my fault. I really don't want to deal with that again, lol. I would definitely drive if car insurance wasn't so outrageous here, but on my budget it really isn't an option.

**Magnatomicflux** · May-08-11, 08:48 PM

Originally Posted by Zacha341

Yeah, insurance is sky high. That's why I don't have a new car.... I only purchase cash cars used. Who can afford a car note AND car insurance? I can do one but not the other. And you see folks with crushed-in beat up new cars, never repaired because they did not have car insurance. Just crazy~!

Yup, same here. I don't know what your prices are like in the states, but over here I had an 08 Charger SXT and was paying $158 for insurance and.......$383 for the note! So...now I'm looking at a 91 Jeep Wrangler. I really thought the no airbags/high roll over thing would kill me but I was quoted at $105!

**Danny** · May-09-11, 12:14 PM

The last solution to save D-DOT from it's doom and gloom, PRIVATIZE IT!

**DetroitPlanner** · May-09-11, 02:26 PM

Originally Posted by professorscott

Here's what I think is going to happen: once they have the Woodward light rail up and running, there won't be as much demand for the local Woodward bus, so after a year or so they will be able to justify running it less often. It is cheaper to run a light rail vehicle than a local bus for three reasons: the energy cost per trip-mile is less, the train makes the trip in less time than the bus so your labor per hour pulls more people more miles, and the train holds more people so again your labor cost per passenger-mile is lower.

In the long run, also, light rail vehicles have a lower per-mile maintenance cost than buses in local service because they don't stop and start as often and because a motor is much cheaper to keep in service than a diesel engine. Actually it would save DDOT a lot of money overall, operation cost wise, if they could put trains on Woodward, Gratiot and Grand River, but the capital cost is too much to bear. At the moment.

I have no doubt this will lead to fewer buses on Woodward, however operating costs are typically figured by number of riders. Will this have enough riders to keep the operating costs low is difficult to project, particularly when the curren plan has it dead heading at 8 Mile where there is no traffic generators, just a closed fairgrounds and cemetary. If you think those folks in Palmer Woods are going to use the train you're dreaming. Most of the jobs are in the opposite direction from downtown.

**Bham1982** · May-09-11, 03:15 PM

These cuts will also devastate the feeder routes for the Woodward corridor, which should dramatically lower light rail ridership projections.

And D-Dot claims that virtually no one rides Woodward buses after 9PM. If this is true, why do we expect better with light rail?

**Rocko** · May-17-11, 07:08 AM

So did anyone attend any of these public comment meetings about the DDOT changes? I was hoping to attend one but didn't make it; still I hope the letter I wrote did some good. Hopefully the magnitude of service changes come June 25 won't be anything near as severe as what DDOT originally laid out. Guess we'll have to said and see....

**douglasm** · May-17-11, 08:43 AM

The director of our local [[not Detroit area) transit system came to city council the other night to explain their service cuts and why.

As to the why:

1) declining tax revenues. We're financed by sales tax revenues, and with sales falling, revenues are way down.
2) declining federal funding
3) declining state funding
4) Increased fuel costs. This is the big one. Our system is currently contracted at $2.81 a gallon for diesel. That contract runs out in November, and they're looking at a 25% jump in fuel costs.

Granted our system is small compared to D-DOT, but they're lookiing at a major drop in revenue NOW, a big hit in November when they renegotiate fuel contracts, and another big hit next year when the next state and federal budgets come out. Alas, fares only cover about 20% of expenses, so an increas is only part of the equation. Major service cuts are expected to remain under budget.

I feel sorry for transit systems like ours and D-DOT. In a time when ridership is at an all time high, appropriations are at an all time low and the only way to make it work is to cut something. In a situation like this, someone always gets hurt.