Bridge Company moves ahead with MCS Renovation

**mcsdetroitfriend** · May-06-11, 12:00 AM

http://www.freep.com/article/2011050...ot-restoration

Huge news, lets hope it goes beyond the design phase...theres a comment in there talking about having sound walls to put the windows in...I'm pretty sure that'll get figured out, if it's done it won't be done half ass, there's codes to meet and while Maroun obviously isn't known for that, contractors will be paying attention to codes as it's their reputation on the line

**Wesley Mouch** · May-06-11, 12:26 AM

Originally Posted by mcsdetroitfriend

http://www.freep.com/article/2011050...ot-restoration

Huge news, lets hope it goes beyond the design phase...theres a comment in there talking about having sound walls to put the windows in...I'm pretty sure that'll get figured out, if it's done it won't be done half ass, there's codes to meet and while Maroun obviously isn't known for that, contractors will be paying attention to codes as it's their reputation on the line

How's he doing on demolition of those piers, and the relocation/demolition of the duty-free?

Almost done? And that was a court order w/ Dan Stamper jailed.

That said, I hope he gets a good architect and does a quality job of it. If this is just 'whitewash', it might be more harm than good.

**detroitbob66** · May-06-11, 12:29 AM

I will believe it when I see it!

**wolverine** · May-06-11, 12:41 AM

They aren't "moving ahead with renovation." Nothing has gone out to bid, no permits secured, etc. So far just drawings and studies being done.. Even if the drawings are for repairs to the fenestration and roof, architects love to get carried away and develop a concept of what could be to impress the client....even if it's not part of the scope of work....and you know what that means......

**mcsdetroitfriend** · May-06-11, 12:47 AM

We'll see, however permits have been secured, so I'm told by my contact at DIBC, reliable source

**fryar** · May-06-11, 01:06 AM

So...Robocop wins?

**Junkin4Life** · May-06-11, 05:06 AM

i would like to see some pics of the design

**BVos** · May-06-11, 10:04 AM

Here's an article from AnnArbor.com that provides some more detail:

http://annarbor.com/business-review/...ntral-station/

Quinn Evans is one of the most respected historic preservation architectural firms in the nation. Liz Knibbe is no sluff of an architect either. She knows her stuff technically as well as how to deal with difficult and cheap clients while also sticking to her professional standards. They're not going to let their names be put on crap.

You don't hire Quinn Evans and pay out the money they charge unless you plan on doing something for real to your building. So this is looking good for MCS. Now of course I won't hold my breath on a renovation project, but this is a very surprisingly positive announcement.

**Gistok** · May-06-11, 02:46 PM

Thanks for the links BVos... like you... keeping my fingers crossed...

**mcsdetroitfriend** · May-06-11, 04:02 PM

Their portfolio is quite impressive

**One Shot** · May-06-11, 09:12 PM

So is everyone OK with him building his bridge yet? Look how he cares for our city! Come on just let him do it.....

**Gistok** · May-06-11, 10:06 PM

Originally Posted by One Shot

So is everyone OK with him building his bridge yet? Look how he cares for our city! Come on just let him do it.....

MCS.... Bridge.... Apples.... Oranges.... Comprendez-Vous?

**Meddle** · May-06-11, 10:49 PM

there's codes to meet and while Maroun obviously isn't known for that, contractors will be paying attention to codes as it's their reputation on the line

Contractors will do what MM pays them to do and say what he tells them to say. If not, they'll be replaced.

DIBC, reliable source

Oxymoron?

MCS.... Bridge.... Apples.... Oranges.... Comprendez-Vous?

More like kumquats and pomegranates. MM is clearly trying to score brownie points and influence enemies. He'll appear to start something in hopes of swaying public opinion on the bridge, then, if successful, drop MCS like a lead balloon.

**mcsdetroitfriend** · May-06-11, 10:58 PM

who cares if things are happening thats ALL i care about

**Meddle** · May-07-11, 12:32 AM

But ARE things happening? Or is it all a ruse?

**mcsdetroitfriend** · May-07-11, 12:39 AM

I don't think a well respected company like this firm they've hired would come out publicly unless things were actually happening, I mean christ they've worked on the Capitol building in Lansing, and the art museum at U of M among other things I can't recall off the top of my head...I think it's a big step, and whether or not it has anything to do with other motives I don't care, it's something being taken care of that we all agree should've been taken care of a long time ago, but at least it's not too late!

**barnesfoto** · May-07-11, 01:05 AM

This is vaguely interesting.

Some of us are old enough to remember when the agents of Count Maroun, [[Vampire), announced the impending restoration of the MCD around 1990 or so.
It was really exciting. They put up a SIGN up front touting the impending restoration, and a tiny dumpster,-the kind of dumpster that you might need if you were stripping the roof off of a 3 bedroom bungalow,- appeared in front of the building and was soon filled with debris.

Of course, as some of us have been pointing out for years, given the amount of concrete tunnels underneath the structure, the cost of demolition would be pretty high. Could it be that the vampire's paid whores are again trying to stall?

Not hoping for demo, but here's hoping that we will not be having the same discussion in another 20 years.

**mcsdetroitfriend** · May-07-11, 01:17 AM

Maroun didn't own the building until 1995 so the project you're referring to [[a mall or some World trade center business) was by another guy who failed to pay the security bill and TADA led to the mess you see today.

That's a real bummer having false hope and I'm trying to be optimistic on this one, its just its so public and so "it's going to happen" sounding and DIBC knows if they dont produce they'll never get anywhere again so I'm remaining hopeful.

Also in terms of tunnels from the Sanborn map I have there are only two tunnels under the street level [[besides the Passenger and Express subways those don't count) 1 was a coal tunnel that went under Vernor, when the train yard was on the west side [[the big empty lot across the street) and trains were still coal operated, the coal dust and coal that overflowed from the trains went into an elevator which led under street level to a coat bucket on tracks - like what you'd see in a mine shaft - that led into the boiler room which fed the boilers.

Tunnel number two under street level goes under 15th street to the Roosevelt Warehouse [[Aka Post office) It was a wide tunnel that is source of flooding for both buildings, as one floods the excess goes into the other building...couldn't tell you which floods more, as I've never been in the basement of either buildings, but I've been told when DIBC drains the basement of MCS they have to drain Roosevelt to or else the water comes right back

**Gistok** · May-07-11, 01:23 AM

Originally Posted by Meddle

More like Kumquats and pomegranates. MM is clearly trying to score brownie points and influence enemies. He'll appear to start something in hopes of swaying public opinion on the bridge, then, if successful, drop MCS like a lead balloon.

His biggest 2nd bridge stumbling block is the Canadians... and they likely don't give a rats ass what he does to the MCS... so the point is moot on the effect of what he does to the MCS as related to his desire for a 2nd bridge. He could restore and gold plate the MCS for all they care... the Canadian's aren't going to budge...

**1KielsonDrive** · May-07-11, 02:22 AM

Originally Posted by barnesfoto

This is vaguely interesting.

Some of us are old enough to remember when the agents of Count Maroun, [[Vampire), announced the impending restoration of the MCD around 1990 or so.
It was really exciting. They put up a SIGN up front touting the impending restoration, and a tiny dumpster,-the kind of dumpster that you might need if you were stripping the roof off of a 3 bedroom bungalow,- appeared in front of the building and was soon filled with debris.

Of course, as some of us have been pointing out for years, given the amount of concrete tunnels underneath the structure, the cost of demolition would be pretty high. Could it be that the vampire's paid whores are again trying to stall?

Not hoping for demo, but here's hoping that we will not be having the same discussion in another 20 years.

I think that was an entirely different concept/project. A guy from New York? had optioned/leased/whatevered the building. I don't think he had any real money riding on the project. Not like a purchase or long term lease. I believe it was to be called the Great Lakes World Trade Center. That was the last time I was in the building. Previously it had been boarded up and maintained. The guy I mentioned and WSU Preservation partnered on an open house in the late 80's or early 90's to introduce the public to his ideas and plans for the depot's renovation and its use. A woman I knew back then was the point person for Preservation Day's open house at the depot. The main floor had been cleaned, an elevator put to work and two upper floors cleaned and organized. The tour was conducted around the main floor and finalized up above with a view of the city. It was very nice and very promising. The depot had yet to be stripped of everything including its dignity. The tour explained the removal of furniture, fixtures and eventually the plywood walls installed to funnel people through the underpasses to the boarding platforms between the tracks under the sheds, which have since been removed also. The New York guy had a vison of that immediate area, including the depot, train tracks, yards, tunnel, bridge and the river as being a gigantic congregation point for international, inter-modal transportation.

**wolverine** · May-07-11, 02:40 AM

You don't hire Quinn Evans and pay out the money they charge unless you plan on doing something for real to your building. So this is looking good for MCS. Now of course I won't hold my breath on a renovation project, but this is a very surprisingly positive announcement.

Of course QE does great work. But lots of well respected architects, even very famous ones put out a complete set of drawings, and nothing happens. The ultimate decider of what happens next is the client. No one is ever forced by the architect to actually construct the building. So yes, it's "looking good" for the design of MCS but it stops there...maybe goes a bit further. Are they Design / Build?

I'm 50/50 on the whole thing. I actually believe something will get done, but it won't end up being the best result. The only way we see a success story is if this thing goes into a full renovation and gets a tenant. Otherwise it's brand new windows and roof that fall victim to the same b.s. that has plagued the station ever since it ceased operations.

**mcsdetroitfriend** · May-07-11, 03:43 AM

Originally Posted by 1KielsonDrive

I think that was an entirely different concept/project. A guy from New York? had optioned/leased/whatevered the building. I don't think he had any real money riding on the project. Not like a purchase or long term lease. I believe it was to be called the Great Lakes World Trade Center. That was the last time I was in the building. Previously it had been boarded up and maintained. The guy I mentioned and WSU Preservation partnered on an open house in the late 80's or early 90's to introduce the public to his ideas and plans for the depot's renovation and its use. A woman I knew back then was the point person for Preservation Day's open house at the depot. The main floor had been cleaned, an elevator put to work and two upper floors cleaned and organized. The tour was conducted around the main floor and finalized up above with a view of the city. It was very nice and very promising. The depot had yet to be stripped of everything including its dignity. The tour explained the removal of furniture, fixtures and eventually the plywood walls installed to funnel people through the underpasses to the boarding platforms between the tracks under the sheds, which have since been removed also. The New York guy had a vison of that immediate area, including the depot, train tracks, yards, tunnel, bridge and the river as being a gigantic congregation point for international, inter-modal transportation.

See they didn't even get far enough to strip furniture, I have a photograph from 1992 showing the big white 80's era plant pots and the oak waiting benches burnt to a crisp...

**gnome** · May-07-11, 09:04 AM

Maroun is stealing a page from Higgins Eaton Tower stalling tactics. Just a morsel to keep City hall off his tail. If it was a serious deal construction gear would already be there, the fence would be secured and rfps would be buzzing. If it was even a mildly serious plan a min wage guard would be guarding.

**canuck** · May-07-11, 09:49 AM

I hope this happens for Detroit. As musch as it is a symbol of decline it could be the finest symbol of renewal if it is tied in to intercity commute, or even a suburban hub. But is that possible now? I hope so.

**1KielsonDrive** · May-07-11, 11:05 AM

Originally Posted by wolverine

Of course QE does great work. But lots of well respected architects, even very famous ones put out a complete set of drawings, and nothing happens. The ultimate decider of what happens next is the client. No one is ever forced by the architect to actually construct the building. So yes, it's "looking good" for the design of MCS but it stops there...maybe goes a bit further. Are they Design / Build?

I'm 50/50 on the whole thing. I actually believe something will get done, but it won't end up being the best result. The only way we see a success story is if this thing goes into a full renovation and gets a tenant. Otherwise it's brand new windows and roof that fall victim to the same b.s. that has plagued the station ever since it ceased operations.

Absolutely correct. We can only hope. To this point the proposed project is only a PR tool for Matty's use.