How low can pay go in Detroit?

[maxx]

What's that adage you get what you pay for? How will the city be able to operate efficiently if it pays people this way?

http://www.toomuchonline.org/tmweekly.html

"
In Detroit, a news report related last week, wage cuts have dropped the entry-level clerical worker pay to $17,000 a year. Back in 1970, city clerks started at $7,000, a sum that translates, after inflation adjusting, to over $39,000 today.
Detroit city workers, in effect, have had their real incomes cut in half. And Detroit’s mayor, on top of this cut, now wants these workers to pick up another 20 percent of what their health care premiums are costing the city...."

[lilpup]

That's the going wage for a lot of entry level and fast food jobs in the area right now. I know people with advanced degrees getting $10/hr + health insurance [[= $20K/year + benefits).

[oldredfordette]

Rise up, people.

[Buy American]

Too bad the City of Detroit isn't recouping the monies pocketed by thug KK, Conyers, and all the appointees and crooked employees, clownsil members who don't pay their taxes on their homes, and are still walking the halls of the City County Building. The losses that Detroit has incurred due to theft, rape and pillaging is enormous but seems to be forgotten. Lawsuits that are paid without any investigation, contracts given out randomly should be totally unacceptable to Detroiters. Maybe Bing should concentrate on that instead of asking the honest employees who go to work each day and give 150% to take the hit. Police and Fire haven't received a raise in years and now are espected to give up some health care...there isn't enough money in the world to pay these people for what the go out and do every day to protect and serve. As long as Detroiters accept this sort of action things will never get better...time to rise up!

[DetroitPlanner]

Its getting to the point where you are going to need to work two jobs just to keep your head above water. Note that in 1970 most of the benefits you were getting were included as part of your pay. These days, most public employees also have to kick in for their own retirement, medical, and most likely have had thier wages cut back. The lucky few have had them frozen. Some are getting forced days off to help balance the books.

I am sure that I don't need to tell folks that this is at a time when all costs are rising highly due to the devaluing of the dollar. While the official inflation rate remains low, you sure can't tell that by your monthly utilty, energy, food, and medical bills.

A lot of folks who complain about public employee wages don't really look into the fact that most employees are either extremely well educated and are already getting paid less than they would in the private sector. Other public employees are doing hazardous or extremely stressfull jobs such as police, fire, or even ensuring that the water that makes it to your home is clean and safe to drink.

[bartock]

The article cited in that blog or whatever from the Washington Post is interesting:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/busine...eiE_print.html

I think this quote says quite a bit:

"That’s how it was for Saundra Williams, who went to work for the city as a typist in the health department in 1968. She retired as a 911 operator in 1998 at age 48, and the city is obligated to pay her $24,000 a year for life.
“It’s great,” said Williams, who now works for the Michigan AFL-CIO. “But it also is not a lot to live on.


Rise up? Whatever.

[9mile&seneca]

They have firemen in Las Vegas that make 200,000/ year.

[rjk]

They have firemen in Las Vegas that make 200,000/ year.

I couldn't believe that until I read an online article about their pay.
Including the $43,422 in benefits, the average firefighter received a total compensation package of $172,898. The article was from a few years ago.

This is what happens when politicians get to throw around other peoples money.

[drippyhollows]

regardless. Atleast they have jobs. I'm unaware of what a clerical worker does. Is this a skilled position? semi-skilled?

[Bham1982]

Why would a low-cost area like Vegas need to pay firefighters 200k? Hell, why even 100k?

[9mile&seneca]

When there are periods of economic prosperity, politicians and beuarocrats sit down with a bottle of "ought" and get loaded. This ought to be this way. this ought to be that way. An example of this kind of thing here in Ga. is the HOPE scholarship. It is funded by the state lottery. Just as soon as it was passed and implemented, all state universities and colleges began to raise tuition and fees every year. Because they had this huge pool of free money to drain. Now, ten years late,r one could not go to a state college without it unless one was already wealthy. And now, guess what? The lottery isn't even bringing in enough money to satisfy them so they are cutting all but the straight A students[[which, in MHOshould have been the case all along).

[oldredfordette]

Saundra Williams does not work for the Metro Detroit AFL CIO, she is the president of the Metro. I'd like to invite you all to live on $24,000 a year. It's a reasonable pension, I'm not sure but I believe she was bought out of her job, that's why she left so young. What's the problem? Are we all supposed to die when we leave our jobs? Bullshit bullshit bullshit. She worked for it, she continues to work [[and do a fine job, btw), it's how it's supposed to be.

As for the firefighters, I hope a cut-rate part time fireman comes to your house rjk. You want cheap you'll get cheap.

Really, what is wrong with you people?

[Bham1982]

Really, what is wrong with you people?

Eh, pot, meet kettle.

Some of us are interested why some non-managerial "public servants" are making 3-4 times median salaries. That doesn't strike you as odd?

Again, why are Las Vegas firefighters making many multiples of the area median income? They need to be rich to do their job? They wouldn't or couldn't do a good job if they were earning Regular Joe salaries?

And why are Detroit employees retiring with full pensions for life in their 40's? Why are those pensions untaxed, and why are they allowed to take another govt. position and keep their full, untaxed pension?

These seem like reasonable questions to me.

[oldredfordette]

No, it does not strike me as odd. Have you ever talked to a firefighter, have you ever considered what their job entails? I don't believe the $200,000 figure, I'm sure that's a rough, high end, oldest seniority figure that is still exaggerated, but let's just say it's true. The next time you see smoke, wrap yourself in your heaviest clothes, strap some oxygen tanks to your body and go charge in the front door. I'll send a nice condolence letter to your wife after. She's going to need that money since she'll be the only breadwinner left.

Regular Joe salaries. Un. Fucking. Believable.

The Metro Detroit AFL CIO is not another government position. Saundra Williams is not getting rich on her salary from the Metro.

While we're talking salaries, can you justify any of these?
http://www.aflcio.org/corporatewatch/paywatch/

[hhockey]

Most city employees such as police and fire do have people in their 40's retire, but they also have put in 25 to 30 years of service. Are they suppose to work 40 years, 50 years? What does age have to do with retiring in the first place? And believe me it is tough to live on 24,000 dollars a year. This comes from one who knows!

[Bham1982]

No, it does not strike me as odd.

Well then I guess you're either a public employee yourself or unemployed/retired.

Obviously "public service" is not supposed to be an opportunity to rape the taxpayer. If firefighters are making 200k in an area where the median salary is 40k, something is seriously unsustainable.

In Detroit, within a decade or so, virtually the entire budget will be eaten up by pensions to long-retired folks. That's the definition of dysfunctional.

What's the point of government? Is is a jobs program, or is there supposed to be some sort of public benefit? If the entire budget is going to folks that aren't even working, obviously something is seriously unbalanced.

The next time you see smoke, wrap yourself in your heaviest clothes, strap some oxygen tanks to your body and go charge in the front door. I'll send a nice condolence letter to your wife after. She's going to need that money since she'll be the only breadwinner left.

This is silly nonsense. Firefighters hardly have the most dangerous jobs.

Truck drivers and fisherman, for example, have far, far higher on-the-job injury and death rates than firefighers. I guess truck drivers and fishermen should all be pulling million dollar salaries, so all our shipped products and seafood can quintuple in price.

If you're talking public service jobs, garbagemen should all be making a million dollars. Far, far more dangerous than firefighers.

The Metro Detroit AFL CIO is not another government position. Saundra Williams is not getting rich on her salary from the Metro.

No, but many folks are double-dipping government jobs.

And what's she making if she isn't "getting rich"? Why doesn't she give up her pension #1, given that Detroit is flat broke, and the folks paying her pension are much poorer than her?

While we're talking salaries, can you justify any of these?
http://www.aflcio.org/corporatewatch/paywatch/

Hell, yeah. I don't see a problem.

Private companies can pay whatever they want. None of your damn business.

If you don't like it, then don't invest or otherwise do business with these entities.

[oldredfordette]

Stupid, mean days we're in.

[Bham1982]

Stupid, mean days we're in.

Couldn't agree more.

If you think that public servants "deserve" high salaries, then you also agree that Detroit taxpayers "deserve" much higher taxes than they currently pay. Simple as that.

The current situation in Detroit is completely unsustainable. You would need to hike the local income and business taxes to just crazy levels to cover existing [[to say nothing of future) obligations.

I have no problem with good municipal salaries. But you better have a robust local tax base, or it's nothing more than a ponzi scheme.

Detroit is broke, and so [[IMO) it's only reasonable that municpal employees and pensioners have sacrifice along with everyone else.

[lilpup]

That's not true at all. There was a piece just recently about how overstaffed the city is. Get rid of the lame, incompetent employees [[who mostly likely have the job via nepotism anyway) and pay the good, productive employees what they deserve.

I, for one, am fed up with jobs where I have to carry some jerkoff's lame ass.

[Buy American]

Firefighters in Detroit have not received a raise in years, they don't make lots of money. They don't get their benefits for free. Anyone on here who feels that "firefighters hardly have the most dangerous jobs" needs to take a cold hard look at the amount of Detroit Firefighters injured in the line of duty in the past year or so in Detroit. The firefighters who were injured back in October when the wall came tumbling down on top of them are still not working. They will probably never return. One is paralyzed from the chest down. Walt Harris was murdered at a fire due to arson. The sarcasm I read in one person's remarks makes me want to vomit.

"The next time you see smoke, wrap yourself in your heaviest clothes, strap some oxygen tanks to your body and go charge in the front door. I'll send a nice condolence letter to your wife after."...is the best response yet.

Watch this video and tell me it's not a dangerous job.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tI261NDLWlM

[English]

What kind of person insults firefighters? Especially during a week when 9/11 is on everyone's minds? I'm so sick and tired of the attacks on public employees.

[socks_mahoney]

Have we forgotten who our heroes are? Firefighters deserve $200,000, rushing into fiery buildings that are liable to collapse. I hope they aren't losing any sleep over bills the night before they run to my house.

How about the 400 wealthiest Americans who make as much as the lower 50% of the country? I think they are the ones making too much money. The super rich are not spending, their money is not "trickling down", and we are all getting screwed. Worse, we are allowing them to divide us. Public sector workers are not to blame. We all deserve wages that can support a family.

We don't need a pay cut for public workers. We need a pay raise for private sector workers and more jobs for all of us too. There are many things that need to be done: if only we could pay for them. How about doubling the number of teacher's at DPS so there aren't 60 kids in a class? We could also have the city lighting dept hire more than 6 employees [[lets just see 20....please, really). It simple, it takes people working to fix problems. The top has taken too much. It is choking our economy.

"If there is no struggle there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and yet depreciate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground. They want rain without thunder and lightning. They want the ocean without the awful roar of its many waters. This struggle may be a moral one; or it may be a physical one; or it may be both moral and physical; but it must be a struggle. Power concedes nothing without demand. It never did and it never will."
---Frederick Douglas

[Red Devil]

Firefighters in the west get paid well because of the wildfire situation. And if you've ever seen a wildfire, you'd know that they deserve every penny.

[Cincinnati_Kid]

Funny nobody's mentioning these CEO's making billions such as Alan Mullaly at Ford, and bragging about he deserves it. He HELPED turn Ford around he didn't do it by himself, he had plenty of help that won't be compensated nearly as well. What a freakin joke this country is becoming.

[rjk]

Firefighters in the west get paid well because of the wildfire situation. And if you've ever seen a wildfire, you'd know that they deserve every penny.

No, in the communities outside of Clark County in LV the pay for fireman drops considerably.