A year later, Michigan's smoking ban has mixed impact

**begingri** · April-30-11, 10:24 PM

A year later, Michigan's smoking ban has mixed impact

Ron French / / The Detroit News

Lansing— On May 1, 2010, Ray Basham took two granddaughters to a Taylor bowling alley. He doesn't recall his score, but sniffing the air, he knew he'd won.
"I could breathe easier," said Basham, who'd fought for years in the Michigan Legislature to ban smoking in public places.

That same day, Boyd Cottrell arrived early at the Warren bar he'd bought five months earlier. He put away ashtrays as the first customer of the day walked in and lit up a cigarette.

"I told him he couldn't smoke in here and he [[cursed)," Cottrell said. "I've been losing money ever since."

A year after Michigan's bar and restaurant smoking ban went into effect, there's less smoke in the air, but also less money in the till.

Michigan's tough smoking ban has limited exposure to secondhand smoke in bars, restaurants and bowling alleys across the state, which will likely reduce the rates of cancer and other illnesses.

Continued at: http://detnews.com/article/20110428/METRO/104280405/A-year-later--Michigan’s-smoking-ban-has-mixed-impact#ixzz1L4FO5JRx

**Mikeg** · May-01-11, 12:29 AM

Originally Posted by begingri

Michigan's tough smoking ban has limited exposure to secondhand smoke in bars, restaurants and bowling alleys across the state, which will likely reduce the rates of cancer and other illnesses

Unless you happen to work in or frequent a casino.

Yet James McCurtis, spokesman for the Michigan Department of Health, has the balls to state, "The ban is less an economic issue than a health issue."

**1KielsonDrive** · May-01-11, 01:15 AM

The smoking ban is a good thing. Of course for those of you who feel it violates your first, second, third, fourth, twenty first and eighty fifth and one half amendments of the constitution, well, what can I say? 100 objections, as put forth by the MRA, are barely a percentage of a percentage. And it's hardly, if at all, being enforced. So whoever in the hell wants to violate my twenty ninth and forty first constitutional amendments, can do so anyway. I've been in plenty of bars where smokers still light up at will. Start a list at DY and name your favorite smoking bar so your pals can go there, smoke with you and complain about your constitutional rights being abrogated.

**milesdriven** · May-01-11, 09:05 AM

I'm against the ban, but it does have some upsides. My circle of friends has saved a lot of money by not going to the bars, and when picking up a late-night coney order I can walk through an empty restaurant to quickly get my takeout order.

**eno** · May-01-11, 11:47 AM

Perhaps the State could license bars that want to allow smoking on their premises, no different from the license they need to allow liquor and beer to be sold and consumed on their premises. The bar owner could pass the expense onto the consumer/ patron.

**gazhekwe** · May-01-11, 11:55 AM

Michigan is not the only state to have such a ban. Be careful where you flee to maintain the right to smoke wherever you please no matter what the people near you feel about it: You only have 11 states left in your chimney corner.

As of April 2011, 27 states have enacted statewide bans on smoking in all enclosed public places, including bars and restaurants: Arizona, California, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Hawaii, Illinois, Iowa, Kansas, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Montana, Nebraska, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, Ohio, Oregon, Rhode Island, South Dakota, Utah, Vermont, Washington, and Wisconsin.

As of April 2011, 7 states ban smoking in most enclosed public places, but permit adult venues such as bars [[and casinos, if applicable) to allow smoking if they choose: Arkansas, Florida, Louisiana, Nevada, North Dakota, Pennsylvania, and Tennessee.

As of April 2011, five states have enacted smoking bans in particular places that do not fit in the other categories:

Georgia bans smoking in restaurants where persons under 18 years of age may enter, but allows most anywhere else either to designate smoking areas indoors or allow smoking freely; local governments in Georgia can and have passed stricter smoking bans than the state.
Idaho bans smoking in restaurants, but exempt both bars [[which can be 100% smoking) and small workplaces [[which can have a designated smoking area); local governments in Idaho can regulate smoking more strictly than the state.
New Hampshire bans smoking in restaurants and bars [[excluding private clubs), schools, and certain common areas open to the public, but not anywhere else, and state law prohibits local governments from enacting local smoking bans.
North Carolina bans smoking in all restaurants and bars [[excluding cigar bars and private clubs), as well as government buildings and vehicles, but does not regulate smoking anywhere else. Local governments may regulate smoking more strictly than the state, except in cigar bars, private clubs, tobacco shops, private residences/vehicles, designated hotel/motel smoking rooms, and theatrical performances involving smoking.
In Virginia, smoking is banned in schools, state offices, and certain healthcare facilities and common areas, but not anywhere else; in restaurants [[including bars), smoking is relegated to separately-ventilated designated smoking rooms. The state law prohibits local governments from regulating smoking more strictly than the state.

As of April 2011, 11 states have not enacted any general statewide ban on smoking in any non-government-owned spaces: Alabama, Alaska, Indiana, Kentucky, Mississippi, Missouri, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Texas, West Virginia, and Wyoming. They do require designated smoking areas.

Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._United_States

**p1acebo** · May-01-11, 12:06 PM

The smoking ban is a good thing, I really don't see what the problem is. If you smoke, you can just step outside for 5 minutes and then come back in, why is that a big deal? And don't give me this constitutional rights crap, if it is better for the majority of the population at any given institution than it is more beneficial than not.

If people honestly don't go out anymore just because they can't smoke inside and make everyone else smell like smoke than I consider them weak. If majority rules, than suck it up and smoke out side.

**East Detroit** · May-01-11, 01:12 PM

The smoking ban has been a wild success.

The non-smokers coming in have kept many of these establishments from going under.

The few smokers who say businesses have suffered due to the ban have not factored in the second great depression.

**dtowncitylover** · May-01-11, 06:41 PM

I accept the smoking ban. But must it apply to outdoor patios and sidewalk portion of cafes? To those who are for the ban, yes of course. For compromisers like me, no it shouldn't. But whatever, I got over it a long time ago.

**douglasm** · May-01-11, 08:57 PM

We've had a smoking ban in Washington [[no, the other one....) for 6 or 7 years now, and it hasn't made a lick of difference when it comes to the bar scene. It DID have an impact for the first year or so, with people grousing and bar owners complaining, but as people got used to it, the hub bub died down to the extent that [[as a smoker) I don't even think about lighting up in a tavern anymore.

The only problem we have is a "25 foot" rule around doorways and windows that can be opened. Someone figured out that the only place you could legally smoke in my town was in the middle of the main drag. Needless to say, that rule is not enforced.

GUSHI · May-01-11, 11:20 PM

I was in NYC over the weekend[[fri and sat) and people were lighting up and smoking, just no ashtrays anywhere.

**1KielsonDrive** · May-02-11, 12:07 AM

Originally Posted by milesdriven

I'm against the ban, but it does have some upsides. My circle of friends has saved a lot of money by not going to the bars, and when picking up a late-night coney order I can walk through an empty restaurant to quickly get my takeout order.

You're dreaming.

**1KielsonDrive** · May-02-11, 12:08 AM

Originally Posted by East Detroit

The smoking ban has been a wild success.

The non-smokers coming in have kept many of these establishments from going under.

The few smokers who say businesses have suffered due to the ban have not factored in the second great depression.

As Sonny Elliot says; Exactically!

**1KielsonDrive** · May-02-11, 12:11 AM

Originally Posted by douglasm

We've had a smoking ban in Washington [[no, the other one....) for 6 or 7 years now, and it hasn't made a lick of difference when it comes to the bar scene. It DID have an impact for the first year or so, with people grousing and bar owners complaining, but as people got used to it, the hub bub died down to the extent that [[as a smoker) I don't even think about lighting up in a tavern anymore.

The only problem we have is a "25 foot" rule around doorways and windows that can be opened. Someone figured out that the only place you could legally smoke in my town was in the middle of the main drag. Needless to say, that rule is not enforced.

Your are correct. It's a catch-all rule/regulation, just in case. I've yet to see any people go 25 feet away. As long as smoke isn't wafting in the door, it isn't a problem.

**sumas** · May-02-11, 07:25 AM

Sigh!!! Frankly don't care about the smoking ban. My husband and I smoke and must admit we just do not go out anymore. We do lots more home entertainment and lots more establishments do home delivery. Really can't stand being much around smug "I am perfect sorts" There are plenty of bars around that allow smoking just really can't be bothered to waste money anywhere anymore.

We have friends that do and don't smoke. All seem to like invites over. Mostly at home we smoke outside but there is no written rule. Sorry Skip keep meaning to visit your new bar but walking in means we are not allowed to be comfortable. At 57, I don't care to linger in front of a bar if I want a smoke. My money is staying at home. I do not try to justify a bad habit. I have a bad habit but then I do not drink and drive. Serve more booze to the perfect ones

Yesterday we had a friend who is a concert quality pianist perform in our living room. It was awesome. Amazing the fun we can have just being home with good friends and fellowship. We converse, listen to good music, enjoy good food, play cards, chess or even Scrabble. Have even opened our house to religious services and fund raisers.

Just being crabby so please ignore. Smokers are nice people too. Just won't be where we are vilified.

Who needs bars?

**K-slice** · May-02-11, 09:55 AM

The smoking bans are unconstitutional, unfortunately no group stands up for the rights of smokers. If the government can tell you that you can't smoke in your PRIVATELY owned business, what to stop them from saying you can't drink, or eat a cheeseburger? Both of those things are also detrimental to the public health.
If I buy a piece of land, and open a restaurant, WHY shouldn't I be allowed to make whatever rules I want? Any reasonable person will agree with me, smoker or not.

**SWMAP** · May-02-11, 10:29 AM

The government requires you to pay taxes on your privately owned land and to collect taxes from your private customers - and sets the amount. the government regulates how you run your restaurant kitchen, how you pay your employees and requires you to insure your bar. Even your grease disposal is regulated.
Regulating the air quality for the health of your customers and employees is not much of a stretch - especially as science progresses and health issues are revealed.

**bailey** · May-02-11, 10:51 AM

Originally Posted by sumas

Sigh!!! Frankly don't care about the smoking ban. My husband and I smoke and must admit we just do not go out anymore. We do lots more home entertainment and lots more establishments do home delivery. Really can't stand being much around smug "I am perfect sorts" There are plenty of bars around that allow smoking just really can't be bothered to waste money anywhere anymore.

We have friends that do and don't smoke. All seem to like invites over. Mostly at home we smoke outside but there is no written rule. Sorry Skip keep meaning to visit your new bar but walking in means we are not allowed to be comfortable. At 57, I don't care to linger in front of a bar if I want a smoke. My money is staying at home. I do not try to justify a bad habit. I have a bad habit but then I do not drink and drive. Serve more booze to the perfect ones

I love the narcissism of smokers. If I object to inhaling your exhaust fumes from your toxic habit, I'm the one infringing on your rights. laughable. Yes, we all need to sit in your fumes and off gasses so your freedoms aren't infringed. I know this may be a shock to you as your sense of smell has likely been gone for years, but your stench is gag inducing. especially during a meal. Thank you for staying home. It's just sad it took a law to get you act with common decency toward others.

**p1acebo** · May-02-11, 11:08 AM

Originally Posted by sumas

Who needs bars?

Younger people, you are 57 I don't think the bar scene will miss you much. Sorry to disappoint.

**JMarx** · May-02-11, 11:54 AM

I don't think anyone would argue that places like Applebees, Chili's, etc, should all be smoke free. In addition, I think it's great that I can go to a lounge/bar and not smell like smoke. Times change, history rolls forward, etc...the majority of the population no longer smokes...so it makes sense to make the majority of places smoke-free.

Having that said, I still don't understand why certain bars can't be smoke-friendly. Smoking is legal and people that still enjoy smoking should be able to go to certain places. If smoke shops and casinos can get exceptions, I don't see why 20% of the bar licenses can't be for smoke-friendly venues.

**Kevgoblue** · May-02-11, 12:18 PM

Originally Posted by sumas

Sigh!!! Frankly don't care about the smoking ban. My husband and I smoke and must admit we just do not go out anymore. We do lots more home entertainment and lots more establishments do home delivery. Really can't stand being much around smug "I am perfect sorts" There are plenty of bars around that allow smoking just really can't be bothered to waste money anywhere anymore.

We have friends that do and don't smoke. All seem to like invites over. Mostly at home we smoke outside but there is no written rule.

Just being crabby so please ignore. Smokers are nice people too. Just won't be where we are vilified.

Who needs bars?

Maybe I'm missing something here. You're offended that the "I am perfect sorts" don't want you smoking next to them at the bar [[thus you'd have to go outside to exercise your right to smoke). Yet when the party is at your house you smoke outside.

So what's the difference? Why has a smoking ban caused you to not go out anymore, if you smoke outside anyways?

**Detroitnerd** · May-02-11, 12:42 PM

At a lot of the bars I've been at lately, there is smoking. It's just when you tightasses aren't there. So, in that respect, the law is a failure.

**jbd441** · May-02-11, 12:50 PM

Originally Posted by GUSHI

I was in NYC over the weekend[[fri and sat) and people were lighting up and smoking, just no ashtrays anywhere.

You're dreaming

**p1acebo** · May-02-11, 12:50 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

At a lot of the bars I've been at lately, there is smoking. It's just when you tightasses aren't there. So, in that respect, the law is a failure.

I wouldn't call it a failure considering the majority of people at bars smoking are smoking outside. Sure I have seen people smoke in bars too since the law has passed but only a very few amount of people. Considering one or two people out of X amount at a bar smoking inside won't make my clothes smell like smoke, I really don't care. It was just when before the law passed no matter where you went you would end up smelling like smoke. I felt like I had to have 2 separate set of clothes.

**SWMAP** · May-02-11, 12:58 PM

Re: gushi's observation: From 2009:

The worst kept secret in New York nightlife is that smoking is now allowed in numerous nightspots. Mayor Bloomberg's 2003 law was meant to effectively eliminate all smoking inside bars, and for a while it seemed to work. It was possible for non-smokers to spend a night at their favorite bar or club and not come home reeking of Parliaments, as smokers were forced to step outside to light up. Memories. By 2006, indoor smoking seemed to slowly reappear, starting with a handful of tiny little joints popular with A-list crowds and quickly spreading to just about any and every lounge and club with a doorman and a rope. Now, as soon as one person lights up, the rest of the smoking sheep follow along, and before can say Joe Camel, the whole room is filled with sweet Carolina smoke. Neighbors love it because it keeps noisy smokers off the streets, and smokers love not having to go outdoors for their fix. It seems the only places that are still enforcing the ban are the dingier and more low key bars that probably were the home of many a smoker before the ban.