How pervasive is Detroit's culture of corruption? Detroit's social expectations

[majohnson]

Each city in the US/world is corrupt to some extent.
Detroit’s corruption problems and its battle against brazen crime have been pointed out by the media, those politically motivated, and concerned citizens.

I used to have a problem, speeding while driving. I received quite a few tickets and paid a premium for my auto insurance, which pressured me to drive within the speed limit. But the following really motivated me to change. I realized most drivers periodically have car accidents and with my speeding habit I would cause easily preventable harm [[a doubling of speed quadruples impact force). Speeding could be the difference between only causing the other person’s car to be wrecked and causing car wreckage along with serious injury to the occupants. I also realized that even if it was the other driver’s fault, my lowered speed would make the incident less dangerous for them and me. No one in my social circle ever confronted me about my speeding. In fact nowadays, several people unfamiliar with my previous driving tease me a bit when I consistently drive the speed limit, ‘You drive like an old lady’.
I had to find it within myself to admit my actions showed that I devalued the people around me and took away their right to a reasonably safe driving environment.

I currently live in Royal Oak but am fixing up a house in Detroit. I also was raised in Detroit and attend grad school at WSU.
In Detroit problems small and large go unchecked to varying extents, and that is the subject of this thread.
I want to surface and have an honest thread about the culture that sets [[different?) expectations for Detroit.

Cleanliness
Cleanliness is a balance of littering and cleaning.
I spent a couple months cleaning and delittering a playground in Detroit. The park suffered from residential dumping, litter, and an obscene amount of liquor bottles of various sizes.
I do realize the playground may have simply suffered from lack of cleanings and thus contained years of accumulated trash.
For instance, downtown Royal Oak has more litter when the Woodward Cruise occurs.

Does Detroit’s cleanliness problem stem from a lack of buy-in to basic “American” societal expectations?
Or is the problem that people don’t respect Detroit specifically?
I know people who litter in Detroit but would never do the same north of Eight Mile. I assume that attitude affects a change in many types of behaviors.
About three months ago I saw someone riding in the front seat of a Detroit Police vehicle smoking what appeared to be a joint. I simply can’t imagine that happening in Royal Oak.

Here is my major point:
Some of Detroit’s common residents and society’s enforcers [[police, politicians) are cynical about Detroit.
They don’t feel they can have a serious impact on making Detroit a much better or worse place. [[This affects me and many other people who try to be hopeful about Detroit.)
As a result they cut legal corners when convenient. Like my speeding for instance, but smoking joints openly in the case of others, or redirecting DPS money, or snowmobiling on Detroit freeways.

1. Does Detroit have a particular problem with this?
2. What expectations are lower in Detroit?
3. Do you have something you want to work on?

Try to keep this thread respectful.
Respectfully share you points and counterpoints and move on.

[Fnemecek]

Didn't you here? Kwame Kilpatrick, his father, and the guy who headed the water department were the only corrupt people around.

All of those people who got carried into the next administration are totally honest. Just count how many times Mayor Bing has talked about how trustworthy his administration is.

[BrushStart]

Detroit has developed a reputation for lawlessness. People think they can do whatever they want in an almost Wild West kind of way. They've heard from others that there are no repercussions for misdeeds in Detroit. Some city residents have long ago dropped those "social norms" you mentioned from their repertoire. These are the type of people who throw trash out their car window, never maintain their yards or homes, and have overall lost all civic pride.

Then, you have suburbanites who come to Detroit and treat it like some kind of personal amusement park. On opening day, I almost couldn't handle being downtown. People were loudmouthed, throwing beer cans on the lawn of the County Building, urinating behind the courthouse, etc. They don't live here so they disrespect the place. Many of them think of Detroit as inferior so they don't care about the mess they leave behind.

Detroit has lost its dignity. The media makes fun of it. Commentators lament its "3rd world" conditions. Comedians take pot shots at it. The Glen Becks of the world get a rise out of comparing it to Hiroshima. These attitudes have degraded the city. Detroit is almost like that friend who people just keep taking advantage of because they know they can. The dynamics of this group mentality have made it easier for people to act like Detroit is worthless- that it doesn't matter. Detroit becomes the butt of all jokes, so people feel fine humiliating it, so why not trash it too?

I'm a smoker, but I never throw my cigarettes on the ground. I always kick off the cherry and toss it into a garbage can. It's not that my one cigarette butt is going to create an eyesore, it's the message it sends to people who see me do it. If they see that I care enough not to throw that little piece of trash in the street, they realize that at least one person respects this place. I've noticed people watch me do it, or watch me pick up trash that isn't even mine, and I bet it makes them think twice the next time they go to toss that bag of MickeyD's out the window.

[brizee]

I know the attitude you speak of.

I used to litter, when I was 18, and then one day it hit me. I live here. Noone else gives a shit about this place, so why am I crapping on my home?

I called my friend out on this. He's lived, worked, and schooled in Detroit his whole life. We went to the movies out in Sterling Heights. He was sick and had been throwing his snot paper out the window all around 6 mile. Out in the burrbs "I might get a ticket out here" and then he does it in front of my dad's neighbors house. I called what he did classless and I think he honestly took offense.

[Richard]

How pervasive is Detroit's culture of corruption?

Well 1920s Chicago style comes to mind with probably about 5 families actually running the city just because you cut off the head it does not mean the snake died,there is still allot of not so nice going on behind the closed doors.But that is common everywhere the difference is that you would take care of the city needs first then suck up the spoils,Third world would be a dictator sucking up the spoils while leaving the residents and city to rot,they get away with it because they know if they keep the citizens broke they can throw them a bone once in a awhile to make it look like they are the good guy and they will never have higher expectations.

Detroit's social expectations

In all fairness parts of Philly,New Orleans,Orlando,Tampa and even where I grew up in MLPS where we were taught to take pride in our surroundings and have respect for our fellow man,there are areas of a certain culture that lacks those traits but that is in any city.Detroit at this point just seems to have a larger area that apply to that as did New Orleans before Katrina.

Other cities have taken steps to educate by having public clean city initiatives and the new concept of actually enforcing the no littering laws and throwing a few fines out there.A few cities want you to litter because it gives them an excuse to pull you over for throwing that cigarette wrapper out of the window.$250 just like that.

Interesting comments even in this forum : I pay my taxes so I should be allowed to do what I want when I want and where I want.
News video of a teenager from Bloomfield? walking around in a well known derelict factory saying that it is their right to be in there.
City members demanding fed funds,the worst thing one can do is stand up in front of a hurting country and demand that the money is owed to because,that one statement alone probably did more PR damage then a years worth of bad press.But yet nobody stood up and demanded her retraction or resignation.

But the sad part of life is we look for the bad so it stands out more,there are lots of Detroiters doing the right thing they just do not get noticed as much.

[ferntruth]

[QUOTE=brizee;241288]I know the attitude you speak of.


I called my friend out on this. He's lived, worked, and schooled in Detroit his whole life. We went to the movies out in Sterling Heights. He was sick and had been throwing his snot paper out the window all around 6 mile. Out in the burrbs "I might get a ticket out here" and then he does it in front of my dad's neighbors house. I called what he did classless and I think he honestly took offense.[/QUOTE]

I experienced something similar recently. I was driving home from downtown to Ferndale and was coming up Woodward. I followed a car from the New Center area up to Ferndale, and noticed that the car did a "slow and go" at each red light in Detroit, but as soon as we crossed over into Ferndale, this person suddenly was stopping at each light and waiting for it to turn green before proceeding.
Nothing pisses me off like someone who can't follow simple traffic laws.

[preserve]

Can't blame all the litter on suburbanites. Drive around the PO facility on 14th, near
the MCS, there is more litter accumulated there from PO employees, who obviously don't care - they snack, smoke, throw their trash out of their car windows. Has to be them, there
are no residents. A drive around the City, seeing people putting trash on their front lawns when there is no scheduled bulk pick up for months. No one tickets, no budget for blight.
It is getting to be a losing battle. the budget cuts are already in effect - all this bickering is for show. No money - residents lose. The only time Detroit Police will
ticket offenders is when they are forced into a situation where they may be observed.
For instance - ticketing the fellow who took his beer out onto the street - vendors who
tried to sell at the St. Patrick's Day Parade - property owners who charged parking fees that same day -

[SWMAP]

I agree about the P.O. employees. I used to be sickened by the eating and trash throwing outside the main post office on Fort St. Don't know if the catering trucks still stop in front. But when they did I was sick. Why couldn't the building operators [[wouldn't that be General Services Operations?)make them eat in the back and clean up? Why not have a plan for clean-up?

As to the trash piled on the front easements - iIspoke to the community relations sgt in my precinct and he said they write environmental tickets on request. I am going to pursue it - and the people who have taken to pulling their cars up over the curb and parking on the front lawn next to the house. The police will write a ticket for that as against ordinance.