If Detroit Got a Mall, Where Would You Put It?

[royce]

Just curious. If it was announced that Detroit was going to get a mall, where would you put it and why? And when I say mall, I mean a traditional mall with three to four anchors like Macy's, JC Penny, Sears, or Target [[now they don't have to be the typical size, but their presence would be a plus). Also, it does not have to have the footprint of a tradition mall, i.e miles of asphalt for parking. It can be unique, but not on the water or in the air or underground. I mean something that is conceivable realistic.This question is mainly a logistics question not a debate about whether or not Detroit could really have such a mall. So naysayers this thread is not for you. As to not sway the logistics debate, I will refrain from offering my suggestion until later.

[Hypestyles]

I'd like to see something on the riverfront, maybe an open-air mall, perhaps in the area that originally was supposed to be cleared out for the original Casinos proposal. All the anchor stores would be there, and there could be shared space wth the Riverwalk.. have some other family-friendly attractions there.. a parking tower could be built..

[Bham1982]

If an urban mall, definitely Campus Martius. A mall has been under consideration for this site since the 70's. In fact, when Hudson's closed, they indicated they would return in a mall format if another department store anchor could be found.

Do I think such a mall would work? Probably not, given the generally dismal performance of urban malls in the U.S., and the extreme challenges present in Detroit. But, if such a mall could succeed, then Campus Martius would be the most likely spot for success.

If a more conventional suburban mall, I would go with East Jefferson [[say the Uniroyal site, or the wastelands close to GP Park), which have lots of space, plenty of strip malls already, and decent traffic and disposible income.

Keep in mind that malls aren't being built very often these days. The few that get built are generally middling-to unsuccessful, and are often in the smaller "lifestyle center" format [[see Partridge Creek or Village at Rochester Hills).

[iheartthed]

I would not be in favor of a Detroit mall.

[Detroitnerd]

I would not be in favor of a Detroit mall either.

[Detroitnerd]

If Detroit Got a Space Portal that Showered Us with Jellybeans and Moon Pies, Where Would You Put It?

[313WX]

Hmmm,

I would like a Tel-Twelve-like mall in the St. Jean/Jefferson area. Basically an extension of Th Shops at Jefferson Villege with an emphasis on anchors.

I would also like to see a 10 story residential/commercial complex on the uniroyal site with any parking behind the building or underground and the two bottom floors facing Jefferson and Grand Blvd to feature mid to upscale shops.

I would also like to see another big box store open on the old Kmart property at Sherwood and Outer Drive, likely a Kroger or even a Wal-Mart.

Finally I would like to see more emphasis on Detroit's already existing malls that are on life support, such as Bel-Air and Grand River/Greenfield.

[BrushStart]

I would put it behind Foxtown or in lower Midtown between Woodward and Cass. However, I would not want to see a traditional, auto-centric suburban mall built anywhere near downtown. Downtown needs some major retail shopping to draw in tourists, but the design would have to be built on a pedestrian scale. No parking lots, maybe a parking structure with ground floor retail. It should incorporate itself into the existing area without being "island-like." Must be accessible, and preferably open to the outdoors, maybe with awnings and a courtyard space. It should be easily accessible by light rail and developed in way that would encourage infill around it. Again, it should not be "campus-like" or "fortress-like."

[Detroitnerd]

Detroit: Desperately recycling the dead ends of the 20th century forever and ever.

[JBMcB]

Downtown Denver has a very nice outdoor mall - 16th street mall I think it's called. It has a nice covered section so you don't have to get rained on or snowed on. I think it would be cool if Washington was converted into this sort of arrangement - a nice big pedestrian mall with sheltered, not necessarily enclosed, sections.

[Bham1982]

Downtown Denver has a very nice outdoor mall - 16th street mall I think it's called. It has a nice covered section so you don't have to get rained on or snowed on. I think it would be cool if Washington was converted into this sort of arrangement - a nice big pedestrian mall with sheltered, not necessarily enclosed, sections.

That's a pedestrian mall, which is to say a normal retail street, but pedestrianized.

Washington Blvd. was converted into something like Denver's 16th Street Mall during the 1970's. It was a dismal failure.

Woodward too. It was the "Woodward Transit Mall" for a number of years. Didn't work.

[iheartthed]

I would put a pedestrian mall on the cap that would eventually cover the Fisher Fwy.

[DetroitTeacher]

Do away with Cobo and stick a mall there but keep the parking structure [[but lower parking fees).

[Detroitnerd]

These are all terrible ideas. You want to take an area that has staggering vacancy rates and add acres and acres of Class A commercial space? With lots of free parking? No wonder this city keeps on sucking.

[BrushStart]

These are all terrible ideas. You want to take an area that has staggering vacancy rates and add acres and acres of Class A commercial space? With lots of free parking? No wonder this city keeps on sucking.

It's not about adding more commercial space, it's about adding big city amenities. You have to build stuff for people to do so that they will come. Do you think the Miracle Mile in Chicago or 5th Ave in New York, or dozens of other examples of urban shopping districts are all terrible ideas? A development like this isn't going to rely exclusively on the patronage of regional residents like suburban malls. It will draw in tourists, game-goers, convention-goers, show-goers, business travelers and Windsorites. While I'd love to see some high-end stores open on Woodward, those commercial spaces are not going make good sense for large chain retailers, but rather will accommodate smaller boutiques. Lower Woodward will most likely develop into coffee shops, cafes, bars and restaurants, and little shops with lofts above. Macy's needs a larger space where it can be flanked by other destination stores. People want concentrated shopping, and when you build it into a walkable urban area, I think it is especially appealing. People will go there just to say they went there and bought a T-Shirt from "____ Store Detroit."

[Detroitnerd]

It's not about adding more commercial space, it's about adding big city amenities. You have to build stuff for people to do so that they will come. Do you think the Miracle Mile in Chicago or 5th Ave in New York, or dozens of other examples of urban shopping districts are all terrible ideas? A development like this isn't going to rely exclusively on the patronage of regional residents like suburban malls. It will draw in tourists, game-goers, convention-goers, show-goers, business travelers and Windsorites. While I'd love to see some high-end stores open on Woodward, those commercial spaces are not going make good sense for large chain retailers, but rather will accommodate smaller boutiques. Lower Woodward will most likely develop into coffee shops, cafes, bars and restaurants, and little shops with lofts above. Macy's needs a larger space where it can be flanked by other destination stores. People want concentrated shopping, and when you build it into a walkable urban area, I think it is especially appealing. People will go there just to say they went there and bought a T-Shirt from "____ Store Detroit."

I disagree. This is putting the cart [[symbols of prosperity) before the horse [[infrastructure and services).

Ever hear of cargo cults? They were tribal peoples on islands who watched the military come through, setting up supply lines, airstrips, radio towers, and plane after plane loaded with beautiful and useful things started landing. Well, after the war was over, the planes stopped landing. So the tribsemen built their own landing strips, with radio shacks, operators with coconut headphones, torches lighting the runway, etc., all in hopes that the great planes would come bearing gifts.

That's what a lot of these ideas for downtown remind me of. If only we built the trappings of a prosperous area [[suburbia! with all its malls!), then the eventual prosperity would arrive.

In truth, there's plenty of room for anybody who wants it. Big chain stores don't have a problem setting up a location in New York. That's because New York has a hole in the ground that 100,000 people an hour come out of.

Establish light rail service. Jump-start pedestrian traffic. Attract development. Fill what's empty first. But please don't rush off to build acres and acres of shopping space when we can't even keep what's built full.

[sumas]

I hate malls with a purple passion and never ever go to one. That said I worked retail for beaucoup years. Anything in or near the riverfront would never sell to Major anchors. Locations are based on populate in a circle around the location. The river gives you a half circle therefore half the populaton

[esp1986]

A traditional "mall" won't work.

What would be best, would be to have one developer buy up a number of vacant buildings downtown and rehab the storefronts for retail and attract at least two major anchors. Another possibility, and one I have heard whispers about being possible, would be in the Cass Park Area... nobody knows for sure who is buying the property in this area [[though we can speculate), but one possibility is a developer looking to cash in on traffic from a new arena in the area. A developer could rehab the Eddystone and American Hotels along with the former Harbor Light Center for residential with ground floor retail, then develop some of the vacant land in the area as somewhat of an "open air" mall with storefronts and lofts or apartments above along with a couple of anchor stores. Yes, it is a bit of a stretch, but if Detroit were to get any sort of a "mall," this would be the best bet... Detroit isn't dense enough for much else.

It would be a real shame to see all three of those buildings fall and become parking lots... with a light rail stop on Woodward nearby, this could become an attractive shopping option for people Downtown and in Midtown.

[Redleg81]

I once thought that maybe we could have patched together something like Indianapolis's "City Centre Mall" but instead utilizing our older,and IMHO superior architecture-- Too much of "City Centre" is new-built with a huge cluster of look-a-like plain parking garages, too near each other, for my tastes. My fantasy would have had maybe an expanded People Mover tie-in to the hotels, and more skyway pedestrian bridging tying it further together-- But as I said, I once thought this way-- I now feel that this concept has become flawed with time, partly because the urban footprint is even more "gap-toothed" today than the early 90's, and changed quite a bit with the new sports venues and gambling joints recently added. Because of this, I no longer think along these lines. Also, when one includes issues like trying to compete with established suburban malls, and security for such a maze-like, spread out scheme, with the further need for even more parking structures downtown to lure the hoped for suburban shopper-- Well, forget it.

[JBMcB]

Jump-start pedestrian traffic. Attract development. Fill what's empty first. But please don't rush off to build acres and acres of shopping space when we can't even keep what's built full.

Now you're getting into a chicken and egg problem. There are already a lot of people who commute downtown. They drive downtown, go to work, maybe have lunch, then drive back home. They don't stay and shop, 'cause there's nowhere to shop.

There are plenty of population centers that would make sense for stores to open - Greektown, The Ren Cen, the financial district. There are *tons* of people in those areas. Yet there is a dearth of retail in those locations. I don't think that the mere presence of a rail stop is going to be any more incentive for stores to locate downtown.

[Red Devil]

Detroit could copy the City Place in downtown Long Beach, CA...complete with light rail stop and urban Wal Mart

[jtf1972]

Michigan Central Station Mall

[Fnemecek]

Just curious. If it was announced that Detroit was going to get a mall, where would you put it and why?

In the Detroit River.

[majohnson]

Wooward, restoration of a building downtown, free parking in quarter block parking structure.
Or Woodward, in Midtown, adjacent parking structure.

[rjk]

Just curious. If it was announced that Detroit was going to get a mall, where would you put it and why? And when I say mall, I mean a traditional mall with three to four anchors like Macy's, JC Penny, Sears, or Target [[now they don't have to be the typical size, but their presence would be a plus). Also, it does not have to have the footprint of a tradition mall, i.e miles of asphalt for parking. It can be unique, but not on the water or in the air or underground. I mean something that is conceivable realistic.This question is mainly a logistics question not a debate about whether or not Detroit could really have such a mall. So naysayers this thread is not for you. As to not sway the logistics debate, I will refrain from offering my suggestion until later.

Well, that rules out my idea of building it on top of the river and using it as the second bridge.