Busted!!! [[Finally)

**detroitbob66** · April-24-11, 01:27 PM

I know what I do is illegal. The way I look at it, as well as my fellow explorers, is that we are casuing no harm to anyone or anything. I simply enter an abandoned building, that is most of the time wide open, take a few pictures, and then I leave. On a recent trip to a Detroit Public School, I was met by a K-9 Detroit Public School Security Guard after I took my pictures inside and crawled out the wide-open window. He wanted to see my camera, but I told him that it was private property and then he told me to "put my hands behind my back" because Im going to jail. Not wanting to go to jail [[been there and done that enough in my life) I had to tell him that I was inside and show him the pictures. He told me that the K-9 had picked up my scent and was barking at the open window, so he knew that I was inside. That dog is certainly impressive! I had no choice but to either accept the fact that I would get a ticket or go to jail, loose my camera, and my car [[he told me he could seize all of these things) standing up for what I believe in. I have always been one to stand up for what I believe in, and I believed that he couldn't prove that I was in there. Anyway, after the officer told me that the ticket was only $150.00, i figured to pay it would be the best option. I do have to go to court, but I will try to do my best and explain the situation. I just don't get it....I am a taxpayer, a Detroit citizen, and a college student. I have been caught before by DPS and just let go with a warning, but I probably deserve the ticket anyway. Ill look at it like I will pay $150.00 for amazing pictures of a school that not too many people have been into.

**Meddle** · April-24-11, 01:48 PM

I know what I do is illegal.

So why fight it? Pay the ticket and don't waste the court's time.

after I took my pictures inside and crawled out the wide-open window. He wanted to see my camera, but I told him that it was private property

and I believed that he couldn't prove that I was in there.

Your 'private property' is evidence they have every right to seize and use against you in court to prove you were there.

**Jimaz** · April-24-11, 02:34 PM

I wonder what would happen if you mounted a camera on a remotely controlled robot instead?

**East Detroit** · April-24-11, 02:48 PM

Sometimes inhaling asbestos makes you believe you met a talking dog.

**Russix** · April-24-11, 03:59 PM

Originally Posted by detroitbob66

I know what I do is illegal. The way I look at it, as well as my fellow explorers, is that we are casuing no harm to anyone or anything. I simply enter an abandoned building, that is most of the time wide open, take a few pictures, and then I leave. On a recent trip to a Detroit Public School, I was met by a K-9 Detroit Public School Security Guard after I took my pictures inside and crawled out the wide-open window. He wanted to see my camera, but I told him that it was private property and then he told me to "put my hands behind my back" because Im going to jail. Not wanting to go to jail [[been there and done that enough in my life) I had to tell him that I was inside and show him the pictures. He told me that the K-9 had picked up my scent and was barking at the open window, so he knew that I was inside. That dog is certainly impressive! I had no choice but to either accept the fact that I would get a ticket or go to jail, loose my camera, and my car [[he told me he could seize all of these things) standing up for what I believe in. I have always been one to stand up for what I believe in, and I believed that he couldn't prove that I was in there. Anyway, after the officer told me that the ticket was only $150.00, i figured to pay it would be the best option. I do have to go to court, but I will try to do my best and explain the situation. I just don't get it....I am a taxpayer, a Detroit citizen, and a college student. I have been caught before by DPS and just let go with a warning, but I probably deserve the ticket anyway. Ill look at it like I will pay $150.00 for amazing pictures of a school that not too many people have been into.

You get a misdemeanor? 30 days or $250 or both. He lied to you about seizing your stuff so you'd consent to a search. Him seeing pictures taken inside the building is better evidence than him seeing you outside a building that isn't fenced in or a dog barking at an open window. You should read this: http://www.aclu.org/drug-law-reform-...what-do-if-you
I'm willing to bet if you didn't say anything other than "Am I under arrest?" he would have let you go cause he knows if he drags you downtown their just gonna kick you out the backdoor anyways.

**Gsgeorge** · April-24-11, 04:36 PM

Not sure if this is the right attitude to take. You can't believe you got ticketed for trespassing in a city-owned building just because you pay city taxes & are a college student? So what? I think you deserved the ticket for being so stupid as to enter a rotting DPS building in the middle of the ghetto so you could get some photos. Oh and by the way, if no one has been to that school before then who was in it before it was abandoned? And how did it get so trashed now that it is abandoned? And why would you come out of window with a barking K9 dog right outside of it? And why stand up for doing something illegal just because you like Detroit and love to explore abandoned buildings?

Urban exploration comes with certain risks. I, like everyone else on this forum, have done it before, with the full knowledge that if we get caught there is a chance you will go to jail, lose your camera, etc. If you do get caught, it's not a time to be opining on your beliefs about Urban Exploring because the cop doesn't give a shit... you were trespassing, plain and simple, and there are fines & punishment for that.

Also, do you think the cop would've arrested or fined a homeless man? Probably not. Anyone who has a $2000 camera in the middle of No-Man's-Land and starts oh-so-humbly talking about how you're a college student & you pay Detroit taxes... guess what, these are the guys that are gonna get ticketed because you're the only ones who can ACTUALLY PAY.

Chalk it up to a little bit of "you deserved it," plus a little dose of Murphy's law. But don't act like you "don't get it" just because you believe urbexing is OK and you pay Detroit taxes. Doesn't make a difference at all...

drippyhollows · April-24-11, 05:28 PM

So you allowed yourself to be jammed up by a rent a cop? Next time try not to tell on
yourself

**mikefmich** · April-24-11, 05:42 PM

Originally Posted by Meddle

I know what I do is illegal.

Your 'private property' is evidence they have every right to seize and use against you in court to prove you were there.

Explain how my camera is evidence?

I can assure you they rarely if ever have the right to confiscate a camera, film, media card, etc.
I've been a photographer for years, am pretty well versed on the law. Giving it up is foolish. If they take it forcibly, they will have their own legal problem.

**Jimaz** · April-24-11, 06:10 PM

[[Not to mention your right against self-incrimination.)

**Pam** · April-24-11, 06:18 PM

Urban exploration comes with certain risks. I, like everyone else on this forum, have done it before,

Not even close to everyone else on this forum has done it before. I think you are in a minority here actually.

**davewindsor** · April-24-11, 07:19 PM

Originally Posted by detroitbob66

That dog is certainly impressive! I had no choice but to either accept the fact that I would get a ticket or go to jail, loose my camera, and my car [[he told me he could seize all of these things) standing up for what I believe in. I have always been one to stand up for what I believe in, and I believed that he couldn't prove that I was in there.

Why didn't you just run away? Do you think a security guard making minimum wage is going to chase after you? Even if he could chase you, how would he arrest you with a dog leash in one hand? He's not the Detroit Police. If he let the dog loose to chase after you and it bit you, he's in for a serious lawsuit. I used to work for a K-9 security company. They're actually instructed to call the police if someone runs away and letting the dog off the leash is a big NO NO. And, knowing about police response times in the city, how long do you think it would take for the DPD to show up for an urban explorer running away?

**English** · April-24-11, 08:04 PM

My biggest concern about the DYes urban spelunkers is that you very well may get hurt while exploring. Abandoned structures can be unstable, have unexpected holes in ceilings and floors, and have other hazards and dangers [[broken glass, exposed wires, etc). I love the pictures, but please be legal AND safe.

**Detroitej72** · April-24-11, 08:07 PM

I would rather see them busting scrapers than urban explorers.

**wolverine** · April-24-11, 09:03 PM

Maybe I don't understand the laws in Michigan, but didn't the original poster set himself up for the fine. [[aside from breaking the law in the first place)

I mean he was busted by a rent-a-cop, and held there by security [[acting under the owner). I thought legally they can't hold you on the property, though they can report you to the police. Seems like all he had to do is well....leave, just walk away from the property. Why didn't he just tell security, he doesn't want to say on the property. They'd have no other legal choice [[I believe) other than to honor his wish and let him go.

Oh well, pay the fine and move on I guess.

**Motown** · April-24-11, 09:27 PM

detroitjim has it right

DPS no longer has their own security [[they were laid off last year and replaced by a contract company), but does have their own Sworn Police Agency. You were stopped by a DPS Police Officer [[see Police Officer) and sounds like he was well within the law to stop/investigate/detain you and issue you a ticket and yes, even arrest you for a felony [[though it's easier to prove the city ordinance/misdemeanor of entering without owners permission which it seems like you received the ticket for, than the felony charge of Breaking and Entering with Intent but that's a discussion for the attorneys)

The K9 Officer was recently profiled in a magazine and received K9 team of the year from it.

See http://detroitk12.org/admin/dpspd/ and be enlightened.

**Meddle** · April-24-11, 10:23 PM

Originally Posted by mikefmich

Explain how my camera is evidence?

I can assure you they rarely if ever have the right to confiscate a camera, film, media card, etc.
I've been a photographer for years, am pretty well versed on the law. Giving it up is foolish. If they take it forcibly, they will have their own legal problem.

If/when you're arrested, everything in your possession is seized and cataloged. It all becomes evidence. Some of it may require a search warrant, some may not. Recent court ruling have held that cell phones and such can be searched by arresting officers without a warrant.

Originally Posted by davewindsor

Why didn't you just run away?

Even if he could chase you, how would he arrest you with a dog leash in one hand? If he let the dog loose to chase after you and it bit you, he's in for a serious lawsuit.

Then it goes from a misdemeanor trespass to a felony of fleeing an officer. The dog takes you down, the handler applies the cuffs.

lilpup · April-24-11, 10:36 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitej72

I would rather see them busting scrapers than urban explorers.

Maybe he thought he had a scrapper instead of an explorer - someone illegally in a building could be either [[or both!). For all he knows you were casing the place to plan a future scrap raid on it.

drippyhollows · April-24-11, 10:48 PM

I dont kno. I had something similar happen to me a year ago. Talked my way out of it. I wasn't scrapping, it was an actual uniformed officer but i was doing more than just "exploring." As a matter of course you don't want to run unless you are QUITE certain you can get away. You don't want to turn trespassing into fleeing and eluding or resisting arrest or who knows what. 1 is a ticket and the others might could be felonies.

**wolverine** · April-24-11, 11:01 PM

Originally Posted by Meddle

If/when you're arrested, everything in your possession is seized and cataloged. It all becomes evidence. Some of it may require a search warrant, some may not. Recent court ruling have held that cell phones and such can be searched by arresting officers without a warrant.

Then it goes from a misdemeanor trespass to a felony of fleeing an officer. The dog takes you down, the handler applies the cuffs.

I guess this answers my question. If the person patrolling that property is a sworn officer, then that person is subject to having property seized and can be arrested. Sounds like the same kind of police force most university campuses have, which can also pull you over for traffic violations on a regular street. However, not the case for rent a cops. They can throw you off the property but not detain. I'm sure there are some exceptions of course.

The security guard of my office building told me a story of kids climbing up the fire escape and getting onto the roof 25 stories up. All they could legally do is ask them to vacate the property and never return or else they'd call the cops. He also said, they didn't ask for the photos, because they legally could not do that either, nor could they control what was done with those photos, unless they were taken of private rooms and hallways within the building. In this case they were taking photos of the city from the roof.

**CLAUDE G** · April-25-11, 12:01 AM

If you had just crawled out the window, and the security guard caught you after the fact I would have walked staright to my car and left.

They are pretty much powerless to do anything, except call the Detroit Police.

With all the frivolous lawsuits these days, I don't even think they can put a hand on you because they are not a real police officer.

Its just as bad as the rent a cop that yelled at me at Eastland because I rolled through a stop sign, and threatened me with a ticket after I got out of my car and was walking in Lowes. I told him when he gets a real badge he can write me a ticket, and proceeded to walk into the store.

The worst things these guys can do is try to detain you and try to keep you there long enough for the real police to show up.

**Meddle** · April-25-11, 02:02 AM

:: I love it when they don't read before they post ::

**davewindsor** · April-25-11, 02:53 AM

Originally Posted by Meddle

Then it goes from a misdemeanor trespass to a felony of fleeing an officer. The dog takes you down, the handler applies the cuffs.

Yes, if they are special constables as post #15 suggests, i.e., they have a badge that says "Police" on it like "Detroit Public School Police", then you are correct. Post #1 said they were "Security Guards", which would be "unreasonable force" and lawsuit worthy if a security guard had a K-9 bite a fleeing suspect.

**Danny** · April-25-11, 07:42 AM

The law is the law, Breaking and entering is indeed ILLEGAL! However they are still Detroiters, suburbanites and outside wierd folks still breaking into vacant and dangerous abandoned buildings waiting to see what happens to them if they get caught!

**majohnson** · April-25-11, 08:38 AM

I am in Detroit so I do what I wanna!

"Stand up for what you believe in"
And that is what, knowingly breaking the law?
You are imposing extra costs on society. DPS would have less security costs if people like you did not invade their property.
What if you got seriously hurt inside the building? You would want EMS to put their life in danger rescuing you. What of the possible burnt out floor beams, chemical contamination, and thugs inside the building? Does it not matter? Would you want them to come in and rescue you anyway? Maybe this requires police escort of EMS if they are afraid or refuse to crawl through a window with their supplies. Now you want police and EMS on taxpayer dime when you know you are breaking the law.

You are a criminal.
You are not required to break every law on the book to be guilty of breaking a sensible law.

What if the security guard followed your logic?
That since he pays his taxes and has not broken other laws he is entitled to an occasional pass, could he then smash your camera and rough you up a little to teach you a lesson?
NO! It does not matter that he caught you breaking the law.

Culture of corruption and entitlement attitude.
You are a criminal, imposing extra costs on society.
I wish I was the judge you came before.