SkyTran offers Detroit new idea for mass transit

[begingri]

BY RON DZWONKOWSKI

DETROIT FREE PRESS COLUMNIST


Detroit was once a place where people with new ideas came to make them happen, especially ideas that involved transportation.
Not anymore, it seems, based on the lack of response to overtures to the city from Jerry Sanders, chairman and CEO of SkyTran.

SkyTran would love to make Detroit the site for its first large-scale project, an overhead mass-transit system that no less an outfit than NASA has said can "revolutionize personal transportation."

Before the city starts tearing up streets for the $520-million light-rail line up Woodward, which will inevitably cost more and be used less than projected, maybe someone should get back in touch with Sanders and at least invite him to make a presentation. Especially considering that he doesn't want any taxpayer money to build his new system, just rights-of-way, and would consider manufacturing its components here for export to other cities that SkyTran is sure will want what they see working cheaply and cleanly in Detroit.

"We're not coming with a hand out; we're a privately held company," Sanders said in a telephone interview last week. "We're simply saying, 'Give us a chance.' If we can be accommodated, we can install an exceptionally low-cost, low-maintenance, high-profit system. Unlike other public transportation, we won't need a subsidy."


Continued at: http://www.freep.com/article/2011041...a-mass-transit

[Hermod]

I can see one downer. With any kind of a systm failure, on a line with several thousand passengers per day, there are going to be an awful lot of four passenger cars for the fire department to rescue people from.

Touch screen controls for destination? How will that stand up to the onslaught of Detroit's orcs?

[Douglas]

Remember the People Mover saga. As desperately as we need a mass transportation system in place I doubt we will ever see one that is built at a reasonable cost to the taxpayers with the type of leadership we have in place today. Before we initiate these types of large scale projects we need to have the right people in place to oversee the planning and construction of these types of projects. Unfortunately all we have at the moment are a bunch of career politicians with sticky fingers which leaves me doubtful that we can get this done any time soon.

[Wesley Mouch]

Hermod's concerns are legitimate, but addressable. If you're spending 5% of the cost of light rail, you'll have 95% of the cost to spend on redundancy, repair/rescue vehicles, security staffing, as well as monitoring of the 'touch screen controls'.

There are problems. And there are benefits. I think the time for some new thinking on public transportation is now.

[Detroitnerd]

Oh, jesus. This PRT shit again? PRT is a hoax. The people behind it bilk various communities and there has never been a functioning PRT system built in any city. And the joke that they will not need public subsidies is just that -- a joke.

They have a great PR team, good packaging, excellent everything -- except no functioning system has ever been built for a city, and never will. You get the feeling these people are brought in to monkeywrench real transit plans with their high-tech horseshit.

[laphoque]

I think we should give them the right of way for fifteen years or so much like was done back in the day with the several different streetcar companies. We should still build the light rail, but I'd never object to somebody actually building this: even though I have great doubts as to the real funding and capability of this dude to build this.

[Detroitnerd]

Yeah, let's give them the rights to build a system that has never been built, and I'm sure that they won't come running back again and again for subsidies, thereby compromising our ability to fund a PROVEN SYSTEM THAT WORKED HERE BEFORE AND CAN WORK AGAIN. Jesus. What nonsense ...

[ghettopalmetto]

Sure! Why build something that has only worked everywhere on earth for well over a hundred years? Let's reinvent the wheel yet again!

[Detroitnerd]

Yay! Another People Mover! Look at how great the first one worked out!

[Jason]

You'd think that journalists would be able to sift through this kind of garbage and not write articles about it. Next there's going to be an article about those toxin removing foot pads, or those energy boosting bracelets.

[Gsgeorge]

Yay! Another People Mover! Look at how great the first one worked out!

I'm not saying this idea is gonna work, because its not, but keep in mind the DPM is only the central loop of what was planned as a much larger city-wide system with linear track going up the radial roads. So what we have is comparable to the Chicago Loop without the rest of the L system. If Chicago just had tracks in the loop, with no linear lines extending out into the city, it too would have been a failure.

[Jason]

Yeah, the people mover ultimately didn't work as planned, but it was a legit system at least.

[Vox]

Never look a gift horse in the mouth. I'd call Brooks if I were him, and pop it on Woodward north of 8 Mile. And the manufacturing sites too. He's paying for it, after all. And the Woodward ROW is just sitting there, vacant.

[Wesley Mouch]

Oh, jesus. This PRT shit again? PRT is a hoax. ...

Why is this a hoax?

Seems perfect for a less dense city, although I see the argument for high traffic corridors [[Woodward)

[Hermod]

Never look a gift horse in the mouth. I'd call Brooks if I were him, and pop it on Woodward north of 8 Mile. And the manufacturing sites too. He's paying for it, after all. And the Woodward ROW is just sitting there, vacant.

Or continue the slog on the Woodward line and give this guy right-of-way over the Gratiot sidewalks.with the right to build his skyline from downtown to 8-mile on his dime. He can run the line as a private line and keep all the profits. Detroit won't even charge him property tax on his pylons and beams..

[Whitehouse]

Sky tran???

[Detroitnerd]

Why is this a hoax?

Seems perfect for a less dense city, although I see the argument for high traffic corridors [[Woodward)

You know that old saw about how when somebody promises something that sounds too good to be true, that it probably isn't true? Well, that's PRT in a nutshell: An all-PR package that ranges between wishful thinking, fuzzy statistics, junk science and outright denial.

This system has never been applied to any American city.

Serious transit analysts have looked at it and said it is impractical.

The salespeople behind it are, essentially, lying.

What they do is they go to towns that have not had a functioning light rail system and they trot out their dog-and-pony show. Then they essentially distract the city [["monorail! monorail! monorial!) from building a REAL, FUNCTIONING mass transit system that works elsewhere. Notice how they never try to sell these systems to places that have working mass transit in the first place? It's a shell game.

[Magnatomicflux]

Sky tran???

AH HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!!!!
*sniff* *wipe* lol ahhhh *sniff*


I was thinking Simpsons too

"what would happen if the tracks should bend?!"

[laphoque]

What they do is they go to towns that have not had a functioning light rail system and they trot out their dog-and-pony show. Then they essentially distract the city [["monorail! monorail! monorial!) from building a REAL, FUNCTIONING mass transit system that works elsewhere. Notice how they never try to sell these systems to places that have working mass transit in the first place? It's a shell game.

If that is the worry why not preclude any public funding from being used on the system? These types of systems usually have some time limited charter that would allow us to include any provisions we wish. Let them build up Gratiot & Grand River [[or on the freeways) while we build up Woodward. The systems could provide different yet complimentary service.

Or we could do as we probably will and let someone else take the risk and watch what happens.

[Magnatomicflux]

[[or on the freeways) while we build up Woodward. The systems could provide different yet complimentary service.

.

That's not a bad idea.

[Hermod]

If that is the worry why not preclude any public funding from being used on the system? These types of systems usually have some time limited charter that would allow us to include any provisions we wish. Let them build up Gratiot & Grand River [[or on the freeways) while we build up Woodward. The systems could provide different yet complimentary service.

Or we could do as we probably will and let someone else take the risk and watch what happens.

If the guy guys says he can do it all on his own dime [[har-de-har-har), Detroit should let him do it. If he builds up Gratiot, he won't be screwing anything up that can't be fixed. Hell, give him a fifty year franchise with the only proviso that the system has to be fully operational in two years time [[or maybe give him three).

[downtownguy]

Yeah, let's give them the rights to build a system that has never been built, and I'm sure that they won't come running back again and again for subsidies, thereby compromising our ability to fund a PROVEN SYSTEM THAT WORKED HERE BEFORE AND CAN WORK AGAIN. Jesus. What nonsense ...

After looking at their website, I'm impressed. Perhaps we do need to think outside the bus... er, box. Detroitnerd, using your argument, we'd still be riding in buggies. I admit, I'm buying into their hyperbole, so why not educate us on why you think this isn't a viable system? Please give some specifics as to why you think this system doesn't work.

[Detroitnerd]

If that is the worry why not preclude any public funding from being used on the system? These types of systems usually have some time limited charter that would allow us to include any provisions we wish. Let them build up Gratiot & Grand River [[or on the freeways) while we build up Woodward. The systems could provide different yet complimentary service.

Or we could do as we probably will and let someone else take the risk and watch what happens.

Oh, sure. Let them try. Well, not so fast.

In the old days, this kind of dirty trick was called "stake-pounding." You grossly underestimate the cost of a project to get it under way. Then you blackmail politicians into funding the rest, calling them obstructionists, pointing to the half-finished project, blaming their lack of knowledge of the real cost of the project. Don't think they'd do it? I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.

Fact is, the PRT people -- or "pod people" as they're called -- are flim-flam artists of the highest order.

And, frankly, I am sick and tired of Detroit being this site for all this "experimental" hogwash. Let's get some competently designed light rail up and running and see what it can accomplish before we go blazing any expensive trails to line the pockets of boondogglers.

[Detroitnerd]

After looking at their website, I'm impressed. Perhaps we do need to think outside the bus... er, box. Detroitnerd, using your argument, we'd still be riding in buggies. I admit, I'm buying into their hyperbole, so why not educate us on why you think this isn't a viable system? Please give some specifics as to why you think this system doesn't work.

You are trying to design a resource-intensive system for low ridership. We already have a system like that: It's called the personal vehicle.

Nowhere do you get the gains in efficiency of an intelligent mass transit system, especially during peak hours.

No system like this has ever been applied to an American city, but debates over PRT have effectively derailed other systems [[light rail, etc.) that have proven track records.

You are talking about a system of four-people cars. To move 12,000 people along Gratiot at peak hour, this will require 3,000 vehicles. What happens when one breaks down? You have to get up on the guideway, fix the car, and let it go on again. This is an intensive operation that can take an hour. What happens to the other 10,000 people waiting in the pods? How can they escape in case of disaster? There are a lot of very important unanswered questions here.

What's more, we HAD a system that transported more than 100 million riders per year. It was called a network of streetcars. The modern version, light rail, is working in hundreds of cities across the world. We are preparing to implement it right now. Naturally, these hornswogglers want to step in and make their pitch now, before we see what light rail can do. They never pitch it to cities that have already begun building light rail because light rail networks bring a certain transit sophistication to a city, and enough knowledgable people get into positions of authority to laugh down PRT.

But if you want to listen to these flim-flam men, at least watch this first:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jF_yLodI1CQ

[Douglas]

Great explanation of how it would most likely work out Detroitnerd. We should stick with the light rail system that has already proven to work and leave this high tech looking gizmo for Disneyland or some other theme park where it most likely belongs.