Unable to steer friends towards Big 3.

[darwinism]

It has been frustrating for me lately, as I have not been very successful in convincing my circle of friends to buy a Big 3 product.

I have tried my best to 'sell' the Big 3, but unfortunately the Big 3 are just at a disadvantage because of the way they do business.

To start, here are a couple of issues that I found to be hindering my ability to succeed:

1) As I had mentioned in the other GM or Ford threads here on DetroitYes, the GM Employee pricing, Ford Employee Discount, Lease Loyalty Bonus Cash, Rebates, Incentives and A/Z plan policies are absolutely turning off car shoppers I know. It is unfathomable that even on its death-bed, GM still alienates all the taxpayers who are potential customers.

2) Why is it that GM showroom hours are only opening late on Mondays and Thursdays during the weekdays? Don't they know that the folks who have the money to buy their products typically are at work between 8am-6pm. A few of my friends here locally in the Metro Detroit area are wondering if GM themselves even care that they are going bankrupt in 2 weeks.

Please share your thoughts, fellow DetroitYes forumers.

[digitalvision]

Those are the same issues I'm having, too.

The biggest problem is the dealer experience - and the fact that for the longest time US dealers [[and apparently still do) are open way less than their foreign counterparts.

People want to buy cars when they're not at work. They don't want to take time off to buy a car. If I ran a dealer, I'd change the hours completely to be open whenever people would be buying, even if it meant I wasn't open in the morning. But I've worked with US dealers, and in general, they're clueless. They and the current Detroit city council have something in common - they still think it's 1965.

I really think bankruptcy is the best option. Lots of dealers need to go so each store sells enough cars to be able to reinvest. Overall, the service and cleanliness are MUCH better at foreign dealerships. It's because they have the money because they push more units per store and make more money. There's no need to have lots of dealers anymore.

As to help, and you may laugh, if you're on Twitter, ping @scottmonty from Ford. He will help you or direct you. Just straight out ask, "Hey, I need help with X."

[Toolbox]

If I ran a dealer, I'd change the hours completely to be open whenever people would be buying, even if it meant I wasn't open in the morning.

You might find your inventory vandalized and your building might catch on fire, accidents happen you know. Has happened in the past when some Detroit/Michigan dealers tried to change their hours of operation. The hours of operation are mostly a Detroit/michigan thing.

My parents bought a car on New Years Day in NC and the dealer was not even open. The employees were there doing end of month reporting and wanted the sale and did what was needed.

[otter]

The bizarro dealer hours are a Michigan-only thing. I found it sort of inexplicable when I first moved to MI that most dealers were open mostly only when people at work. Seriously, who's going to take time off from work to shop for a car? It's something everyone else does on evenings and weekends.

O.

[Retroit]

I think the dealers have a statewide agreement among themselves to only operate certain hours. But, I agree, it is stupid to have such restrictions.

Also stupid are all the confusing and discriminating "deals". Just lower the base price and save us the hassle!

[darwinism]

I hate it when people try and tell me how to spend my money.

I hate that too, Ralph.

It is really becoming more and more obvious that the Big 3 are unable to compete, on every level, period. I feel sad that reality bites so badly, because when push comes to shove, the Big 3 is essentially 'killing' this city, the businesses in this region and any lingering hope of the people in this region.

[digitalvision]

Well Toolbox I was going to mention that but didn't want to be incendiary... it's something that pissed me off.

Frankly, it's bullshit. It's bullshit that whomever did that firebombing didn't get locked up as terrorists. Because that's what it is. Economic terrorism by short-sighted people who don't realize that open dealers mean more cars sold which means more jobs for auto workers.

If there is such an agreement, they deserve to fail. Sorry. That's a choice to fail.

[gravitymachine]

so exactly why would someone have problem enough with a dealer being open late that they would resort to firebombing? this is all news to me

[darwinism]

The hours of operation are mostly a Detroit/michigan thing.

My parents bought a car on New Years Day in NC and the dealer was not even open. The employees were there doing end of month reporting and wanted the sale and did what was needed.

The bizarro dealer hours are a Michigan-only thing.

I think the dealers have a statewide agreement among themselves to only operate certain hours. But, I agree, it is stupid to have such restrictions.

Are you all serious?? You've gotta be kidding!! A Michigan state-wide agreement?! OMG, I am going to throw-up.

Why wait another 2 weeks? GM dealers might as well just let all their staff use their vacation days and take the rest of the month off. Shut down the computers, turn the lights off and bid farewell for good.

[Pam]

Are the weird hours a GM only thing? My Mom just bought a Ford at a dealer with Sat. hours. [[Hines Park Ford in New Hudson.)

[heedus]

It has been frustrating for me lately, as I have not been very successful in convincing my circle of friends to buy a Big 3 product.

I don't think that further bashing the Big 3 on public forums like this will help your cause any. Yes, I agree that only having evening hours on Monday and Thursday isn't ideal but why don't you try writing the dealer or even the respective company?

There are many good dealers in this area that don't oversell all of the employee discounts and the like and some have much better evening hours [[like the dealership I just bought a car from - Brighton Ford). Making broad generalizations hurts their otherwise worthy efforts to sell cars. If you'd like some references, I would be happy to oblige.

[ndavies]

Are the weird hours a GM only thing? My Mom just bought a Ford at a dealer with Sat. hours. [[Hines Park Ford in New Hudson.)

No Pam, it's not a GM, Ford or Chrysler thing. It's a franchisee thing.

The autocompanies have absolutely no control over the hours the dealerships are open. The dealerships are independently owned franchisees. It is up to each dealership to set their own hours and pricing schemes.

It's also no longer true that the big 3 dealerships in the area are only open during weekdays. There are plenty of big 3 dealers in the area open on Saturdays and evenings. I bought my edge on a from a Ford dealer on Telegraph on a Saturday.

[heedus]

I just checked Ford and GM dearships in NYC, LA, Chicago, and Columbus, OH and they all had evening hours 5 days/week. Of the Big 3 dealerships I checked in Michigan, nearly all of them followed the Monday and Thursday evening hour model. Perhaps it is just a Michigan thing, even perhaps an unwritten agreement among Michigan Big 3 dealerships. I really haven't the slightest clue. What I do know, though, is that these broad negative [[and not entirely informed) generalizations are not helping those Big 3 dealers that are providing excellent service to their customers.

[darwinism]

I don't think that further bashing the Big 3 on public forums like this will help your cause any. Yes, I agree that only having evening hours on Monday and Thursday isn't ideal but why don't you try writing the dealer or even the respective company?

There are many good dealers in this area that don't oversell all of the employee discounts and the like and some have much better evening hours [[like the dealership I just bought a car from - Brighton Ford). Making broad generalizations hurts their otherwise worthy efforts to sell cars. If you'd like some references, I would be happy to oblige.

heedus: I sure hope my initial post didn't come off sounding like a 'bashing'. Because my intent is to share my experiences and to encourage dialogues. Truth be told, each day when I speak to people in other parts of the country, including friends and relatives living in other states, I try to promote the Big 3 and their products, despite knowing full well that I am swimming against the tide. Please do indeed share your references, heedus, if they are doing business differently from what was described in my initial post above. Thanks.

[Zimm]

the crappy hours thing is really just a SE Michigan thing. i've shopped a number of dealers in the Lansing and Grand Rapids area, and never had a problem finding a dealer open evenings and weekends.

this is just an extension of the horrible level of customer service that you find here in metro Detroit.

[darwinism]

I just checked Ford and GM dearships in NYC, LA, Chicago, and Columbus, OH and they all had evening hours 5 days/week. Of the Big 3 dealerships I checked in Michigan, nearly all of them followed the Monday and Thursday evening hour model. Perhaps it is just a Michigan thing, even perhaps an unwritten agreement among Michigan Big 3 dealerships. I really haven't the slightest clue. What I do know, though, is that these broad negative [[and not entirely informed) generalizations are not helping those Big 3 dealers that are providing excellent service to their customers.

So, you have personally confirmed the FACT that Michigan Big 3 dealers are ONLY open late evening on Mondays and Thursdays? And dealerships in NYC, LA, Chicago and Columbus are ALL open through the evenings every single weekday.

Then, how in the world is anyone on this thread making "broad negative [[and not entirely informed) generalizations"? For pete's sake, YOU HAVE just VERIFIED THE FACTS!! Therefore, it is factual ..... NOT broad, negative, uninformed generalizations ..... FACTS, FACTS, FACTS. As if I'm not already pissed enough that my efforts to shine the Big 3 positively kept on hitting brick walls .....

[kraig]

Every day I see the bumper stickers that say "Out of a job yet, keep buying foreign."

I wonder if anyone ever gave those bumper stickers to the people that run the Big 3?

Somebody should give one to the owners of American Axle.

[daddeeo]

I would have liked to buy another Dodge Neon but they dropped the line and don't have a comparable product in their lineup. With no entry level product, it's no wonder they're going out of business.

[jiminnm]

If you think it's limited now, it used to be worse [[no evening hours for some years). About 15-20 years ago, the FTC sued the Detroit Auto Dealers Association for colluding to limit the hours that they were open. There was a consent settlement in the 1990s, under which the dealers agreed to be open a certain number of hours per week. I think the schedule that's been cited is the result of that agreement. I doubt the agreement actually limited the hours to that number, however.

Many dealers here in NM are open every evening, including Saturdays. Sunday openings are not unusual.

[ThaFuzz]

I hate it when people try and tell me how to spend my money.

bu... bu... but BUY AMERICAN WHAARRRRGAARRRBBLLL

Every day I see the bumper stickers that say "Out of a job yet, keep buying foreign."

I wonder if anyone ever gave those bumper stickers to the people that run the Big 3?

I'd like to ask the drivers sporting those bumper stickers if they shop at WalMart, but I already know the answer.

[heedus]

I have tried my best to 'sell' the Big 3, but unfortunately the Big 3 are just at a disadvantage because of the way they do business.

To start, here are a couple of issues that I found to be hindering my ability to succeed:

1) As I had mentioned in the other GM or Ford threads here on DetroitYes, the GM Employee pricing, Ford Employee Discount, Lease Loyalty Bonus Cash, Rebates, Incentives and A/Z plan policies are absolutely turning off car shoppers I know. It is unfathomable that even on its death-bed, GM still alienates all the taxpayers who are potential customers.

2) Why is it that GM showroom hours are only opening late on Mondays and Thursdays during the weekdays? Don't they know that the folks who have the money to buy their products typically are at work between 8am-6pm. A few of my friends here locally in the Metro Detroit area are wondering if GM themselves even care that they are going bankrupt in 2 weeks.

Please share your thoughts, fellow DetroitYes forumers.

If you re-read your first post, you do make some negative, uninformed, and broad generalizations about the Big 3. When I looked up dealerships in other regions of the country, I did so to rebut your negative, uninformed, and broad generalization that "GM showroom hours" are only open late on Mondays and Thursdays. You never conditioned your statement. You made it sound like this was standard operating procedure for all GM dealerships across the country. For whatever reason, most [[not all) Big 3 dealerships in Michigan operate with this Monday and Thursday evening hours model. Granted, I think it doesn't make much sense, but I also think it's wrong to attack the entire company for how these dealerships choose to operate their businesses. I understand your frustration with the Big 3 but you can't expect to help their cause any by indicting all three companies business practices yet citing only your experience with Michigan dealers. Again, write a letter, let the dealers and the Big 3 know about your negative experiences at their dealerships here in town.

[darwinism]

If you think it's limited now, it used to be worse [[no evening hours for some years). About 15-20 years ago, the FTC sued the Detroit Auto Dealers Association for colluding to limit the hours that they were open. There was a consent settlement in the 1990s, under which the dealers agreed to be open a certain number of hours per week. I think the schedule that's been cited is the result of that agreement. I doubt the agreement actually limited the hours to that number, however.

Many dealers here in NM are open every evening, including Saturdays. Sunday openings are not unusual.

Thank you, jiminnm, for your New Mexico perspective. I had heard from company associates out in Texas, Louisiana, Florida and so on, that Big 3 dealerships there are open every weekday evenings, full-day Saturdays and occasional full-day Sundays as well.

[gravitymachine]

ok, so again, can someone explain why exactly it would have been beneficial [[however twisted the logic involved) for auto dealers to be open a limited number of hours? especially to the point of possible collusion and firebombing, as mentioned above

[East Detroit]

So, because the companies include employee discounts as part of employee benefits, potential customers are turned off?

That's the most ridiculous thing I have read today.

[EastsideAl]

The dealer opening hours fight has a very long and complex history in the Detroit area. After what was nearly an open war between various factions of dealers, salespeople, and other involved personnel, it eventually culminated in a written agreement in the early '70s amongst area dealers to limit their hours to business hours on M-F, with an option to open later on Monday and Thursday nights. This agreement satisfied workers' wishes for shorter hours, and was seen as beneficial by the dealers since it avoided the threat of unionization and especially since their studies then showed that with less time to "shop around" buyers would pay more for cars, thus raising the dealers' profit margins.

In the 1980s the federal government brought an anti-trust action against this agreement. After a prolonged and very complex court battle there was finally a settlement in 1996 that struck down the dealer's written agreement and enforced a Federal Trade Commission ruling that required dealers to stay open 64 hours a week for a year. After that year it seems that many dealers formed a tacit agreement to cut hours back to Mon. - Sat., with night hours on Mon and Thu.