What's Up With The Mercury Coffee Bar?

[chitaku]

there is nothing wrong with seven dollars for a sandwich, it just better be worth 7 dollars. Mudgies is a fine example of what a sandwich should be at that price[[very high quality ingredients with a good amount of meat also quality). The mercury Bar sandwiches were about the size of a Slim Jim from Big Boy. The average customer is going to want something that fills them up, and the average customer pays the bills more than the customer who wants it for the quality. Some might disagree but that's just how it is.

[dexterferry]

chitaku, you lost your job at the mcb well before the place went under. are we supposed to believe your opinions are unbiased?

yes: many, many detroiters are cheap [[especially the ones WITH money). yes: many, many detroiters love unhealthily large portion sizes. but the MCB wasn't catering to that crowd. I was never in there when it wasn't hopping. there are only a handful of coffee shops in the entire city of detroit, and beyond that only one or two that maintain consistent, day+evening hours. there were and are plenty of people who don't gripe about paying a fair price for healthy, artisanal-quality meals and the very highest quality coffee available [[in a beautiful location with consistent hours).

so a bunch of dyes whiners didn't like paying $7 for a reasonably-proportioned sandwich that wasn't slathered in mayo and boring meats and cheese. who cares. there were plenty of people supporting this place, but the ownership's existing debts killed any chance to keep it open.

complain all you want, but it wasn't a lack of support or high prices that brought this place down.

[gnome]

hey Dex you make it sound like Chitaku had his hand in the closing of the place. Not true. He hasn't changed his tune since January, he was sounding the alert that something was squirly in the place long before it closed. And because it did close, Chitaku seems pretty on-target.

The bride and I had a nice lunch there. Couple of sandwiches and coffees shared a desert and took home a bag of coffee beans.

$37.00.

Never went back, it was nice, but it wasn't that nice. $37.00 for lunch... next to a burned out hotel, down the street from a ruin. jeeze. I can eat lunch for a week, maybe two, on $37.00 .

[dexterferry]

no, I'm saying chitaku had an axe to grind even before the place closed. despite that, I have agreed with many of chitaku's criticisms. but it is still criticism coming from a disgruntled ex employee.

as much as you want it to make a difference, it doesn't really matter that you and your bride never went back. a lot of people did, including me. And every time I did, the place was packed.

who cares about your individual experience. why am I supposed to care about your tab? it wasn't like the prices weren't posted. nobody put a gun to your head. squabbling about the prices gets in the way of what I think really matters here: the owners of this business squandered an opportunity to turn that corner into a fixture of corktown because they went way overboard on preparations. that location can sustain a really nice coffee shop [[even with $2 coffee! gasp!) but now a bunch of losers are sitting around on the internet blaming the economy or the size of the panini rather than blaming the other major mistakes made by this gaggle of owners who screwed it up big time.

[1KielsonDrive]

So a disgruntled ex-employee shouldn't have an opinion? Who better to have an opinion. Who would know the inside scoop any better? If you agreed with some of his criticisms, you're validating much of what he's saying. Yeah, maybe an ex-employee has an axe to grind, but ex-employee has a lot to contribute to this discussion. Keep putting it out there.

[casscorridor]

I think it was primarily mismanagement. But when I ate there I was still hungry and felt like the price was too expensive. Not too expensive to keep me from going back though.

The day I ate there was a week or two before it closed and it was packed. Almost every seat was filled. So I agree it was not the economy or bad panini.

[Pcm]

hey Dex you make it sound like Chitaku had his hand in the closing of the place. Not true. He hasn't changed his tune since January, he was sounding the alert that something was squirly in the place long before it closed. And because it did close, Chitaku seems pretty on-target.

The bride and I had a nice lunch there. Couple of sandwiches and coffees shared a desert and took home a bag of coffee beans.

$37.00.

Never went back, it was nice, but it wasn't that nice. $37.00 for lunch... next to a burned out hotel, down the street from a ruin. jeeze. I can eat lunch for a week, maybe two, on $37.00 .

$37 is a bit of dough for lunch.

But, you probably bought $12 beans. Which puts the price of two lunches and a dessert at $25. Which is right about what I spend every time my girlfriend makes me take her out.

Point is, you spent an average amount for two people for lunch at a decent place. If you wanted something cheap, there's McDonald's all over this city.

Also, ever been to Starbucks? If one was silly enough to buy a lunch at Starbucks similar to the one you had at the MCB, you'd pay the roughly the same. The only difference is, Starbucks is a big ass chain. Their food is not local. Their coffee is not fair trade. And it looks stupid.

No one ever says anything about Starbucks.

[chitaku]

No axe to grind here man, just telling it like it is. I was raised in the food biz, i don't mind paying for quality food at all. I buy food for 10 bucks a plate from the Detroit Evolution Laboratory because it is filling and I don't mind paying for the high quality and for good people. The sandwich at MCB was small man...Go to Mudgies get a Sho'Nuff which I believe is about 7-8 bucks, and see what a good sandwich made with local ingredients is all about. The food at MCB tasted damn good, but the portons were rediculously small for the prices. While a few people might not mind that...the average customer [[see paying bills) does mind.

[dexterferry]

okay, so I guess we're just going to have to disagree about whether the portion sizes had anything to do with the demise of the business.

Can we agree on this:

Corktown, and larger Detroit, has a need for another coffee shop, particularly one that serves high-quality beans and is CONSISTENTLY open during the posted hours [[and not just the work week).

Part of the reason I may seem to be ranting about how it was the stupid business decisions and not a lack of support/prices is because I don't want to scare off a reasonable business person from stepping in and running a great coffee shop there that will be supported by the community.

complaining about and blaming the prices obfuscates the reality that this business was well-supported by the community. maybe it didn't please everyone, particularly our "frugal" gnomes with "simple tastes", but there are plenty of people with finer taste here who appreciate an excellent cup of coffee and a unique place to enjoy it.

[Danny]

The Mercury Bar is currently closed due to financial RED TAPE! A first blunder to exploit Michigan Ave's. Corktown Coridor. Don't know how the owners got into their situation, but they need to ready shape up that place or ship out.

[annalouise]

I'm not sure how much Corktown desperately needs another coffee shop. Are people who live in Corktown incapable of scooting under MCD going over to Cafe Con Leche, which serves reasonable priced, good quality coffee and actually deigns to cater to the tastes of people who live in the neighborhood instead of creating some imagine Ann Arborite ideal of what Detroiters should drink?

[dexterferry]

when's the last time you "scooted under the MCD" to go to cafe con leche, annalouise? he moved his coffee shop to mexicantown several months ago.

and if he was doing such a good job catering to the tastes of the neighborhood, why was it almost always empty [[maybe it was the Spanish/Ferndale ideal of what Detroiters should drink that was the problem).

[SWMAP]

It looks like cafe con Leche is doing better in the new location on West Vernor. I drove past it this morning and several people inside so early.

[dexterferry]

yeah, and I go there all the time. but to breakdown annalouise's conclusion:

coffee shop that always full but with way too much overhead= "Ann Arborite ideal of what Detroiters should drink"

coffee shop that was always empty but had Mexican art on the wall= "what Detroiters actually want"

annalouise sounds like another one of those anti-gentrification uberlefty nutters who is doing no one a service by repeating the falsehood that MCB was somehow not serving the Detroit community [[i.e. that mind-bogglingly insulting "review" in the MT). every time I was in there, I saw people who were enjoying good coffee: black and white, working class and hipster/yuppie. It's so insulting and patronizing to say that this was some "Ann Arborite ideal of what Detroiters should drink" when there were plenty of Detroiters there voting with their wallets while cafe con leche sat empty.

[Gannon]

Cafe con Leche was ok busy this morning around eight-thirty.

They maybe had ten people in when I dropped in for my double espresso wake-me-up.

Carry outs were all beautiful women, too, come to think of it.


It has always been busy. Corktown could use a Jordi for Michigan Avenue.

[gnome]

dex, the problem I had was that the MCB didn't seem like a value. A value isn't just a cheap price, it is a fair return on dollars expended. Value does not equal cheap just as quality doesn't equal quanity. Different stuff.

But Dex, you hint that you have additional information on the behind the scenes dynamics. Beyound having 9 folks running the place, I don't know anything about it, but I'd certainly be interested in reading your thoughts.

PCM. I bought 6 oz of beans. Magic beans, they weren't.

[annalouise]

Yep. Cafe con Leche was empty for a long time. It was in a terrible location. Now that it's in a better location it's pretty consistently busy, or at least it's busy every time I go in there. Other people's mileage may vary.
On that topic, MCB may have looked busy during the lunch time rush but was completely and utterly empty outside the hours of 11-2, to the point where employees spent most of their time doodling in the store diary and twiddling their thumbs. Even during the busiest time the line cooks spent most of their work days twiddling anyway because such a small number of people ordered food....because it was bad. Maybe Mercury could have survived as a straight up coffee shop, but it was never successful as a restaurant.
Evidently some of ya'll liked the food. I figure you are suckers, but hey, everyone's tastes are different; I even hear rumors of people who enjoy the food at Steak Hut.
But if we're really interested in having a business in that space let's not delude ourselves about the reasons Mercury closed. They [[or Todd Wickstrom in his interviews anyway) believed that Mercury was a beacon of light in a food desert, the only good restaurant in a neighborhood full of White Castles and fried fish joints. When they were actually putting a restaurant in the middle [[by a very liberal arts definition of "middle") of three Detroit neighborhoods that are famous for their great restaurants. They thought they could skate on being the first and only, when they actually just a mediocre imitation of the local artisinal food that Traffic Jam and Mudgies/Eph's had been selling for years. They thought they could charge through the nose for lunch when fantastic $3 lunches are available all over Southwest.
Want to open a business in Detroit? Sell a good product that people want. Know your market. Respect your market.
There's a reason that even the people who will rant and rave about the evils of the Cooly brothers will still eat at Slows.
And for the love of God, people. If you are so desperate for your froo-froo coffee they sell the same brand at Honeybee now.

[SWMAP]

Well, thanks, Annalouise for the information about the coffee at Honeybee's. I did love that coffee. Maybe I will try to make it at home - but I don't have the right recipe for most coffee.

As to $300 lunches all over mexicantown - you are right. I often have a sit-down lunch with fresh pico at Taqueria Tapatia for $3.50 - two steak tacos and rice/beans. It is an obsession!

[cycledetroit]

They thought they could charge through the nose for lunch when fantastic $3 lunches are available all over Southwest..

Two greasy Tacos , Lard filled beans, and rice with a very high sodium content. sounds FANTASTIC!!
So the 7 dollars you saved on lunch can go towards your gym membership.

[gravitymachine]

when's the last time you "scooted under the MCD" to go to cafe con leche, annalouise? he moved his coffee shop to mexicantown several months ago.

yeah, his new shop is nowhere near vernor like the old one, it requires an entirely different route strategy that doesn't invlove passing by or scooting under the MCD in any way, especially coming from corktown.

[dexterferry]

gravity: yeah, that's why things were always hopping at his old location! just a scoot from the vibrant vernor business district! people were crossing the construction in DROVES.

anna are you jane slaughter, because it sounds like you're humming the same insulting and paternalistic tune she sang in her review.

if they sell intelligentsia coffee at honeybee I'll eat my hat.

[1KielsonDrive]

I have to say I'm enjoying this link I initiated. My original intent to solicit information about the MCB, it's start-up, business and demise is living up to my expectations. I live in Ypsi/A2 area and spend a fair amount of time in Detroit, my 'neighborhood', so to speak. Having a relationship with Todd and Zingerman's, and hoping the best for Detroit, I was supportive of the MCB. I'd waited years for Lopez to open and operate. Because of the distance between me and the MCB, I only patronized it a few times. It was lively and busy each time I went. The food and coffee were good and it presented another option - another alternative. Might be the last time, or maybe the first, I can't quite remember, I went on 'Angel's Night', while on patrol. The place was hopping. We had excellent coffee. I understand why multiple partners can be a problem. I also understand how doing business in Detroit can be a problem [[city hall, city hall, city hall!). Not to diminish opinions expressed here, the MCB's demise is a bad thing. No matter how much they may have f*+#%d up, or not, the demise is a bad thing for everyone involved. I'm not the biggest fan of coffee house culture, but we can sure use more in Detroit. 'Walk to' coffee houses, 'corner' coffee houses, 'basement' coffee houses, etc, etc, etc. The more, the merrier.

[chitaku]

You guys are all right about why it closed. From day one it was an overhead mess with the 50 employees that were hired. Todd had all of the managers believing this was some sort of food utopia. His exact saying was-"Everyone can get whiskey and onion rings but we have something better". It was his arrogance coupled with the other owner/managers gullibility and inexperience that was a major problem.
A lot of the people that were invested are good folk, they just made a big mistake trusting Todd. Todd also had issues dealing with employees, which caused a lot of disgruntled employees who have friends in the neighborhood who would of frequented the business. After hiring 50 people in August they strung them along until they opened in October. Then they slowly did not schedule people or gave them one day every other week. Couple that with the crazy amounts of food that would get delivered every day. Nothing but waste! They were planning on lines out the door from day one without even a hint of advertising. I mean it really is common sense, when starting a business don't blow all your money on decorating! In the long run it is the food that brings people back not the decor. When I cooked in high school, my boss had a saying "We're not selling shoes here" and he was right, it's all about the food! For proof of that go to Noble Fish in Clawson. The place is always packed and all it is is the back of a grocery store! Hopefully something can go in there and I do believe a coffee shop in that spot can succeed, just have to take a different approach and not think you are going to create a 1000 jobs with a coffee shop. [[yes they thought they were going to do that.) I have no axe to grind with the Detroit Mercury Bar owners, they honestly had no clue and I can't blame them for that. Todd on the other hand is an arrogant jerk and really deserved his fate.

[1KielsonDrive]

I'm sorry to hear your opinion of Todd because I know him and worked with him. I considered Todd a visionary and enjoyed working with him, though I likely didn't work with him as much or as closely as you did. He was always way above and way ahead in his thinking. But, I think we all know that arrogance and visionary are not mutually exclusive. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. I was hoping the best for all involved and excited about a new business in Detroit. Thanks for your close up input, Chitaku.

[1KielsonDrive]

John Lopez was supposed to open the Mercury Coffee Bar for the longest time. What happened? I mean besides the fact he was all tied up with opening Twingos.