A proposal to Merge Detroit with Wayne County

[Danny]

WHAT Detroit County! What is Snyder, the NERD thinking? Is this his solution to keep the 3 CaSINos in Detroit or solve its reputation to increasing its population.

Here's the Source:

Merge Detroit, county?
Published
• Sun, Apr 03, 2011
Most say Snyder’s idea ‘no good for Detroit’

By Zenobia Jeffries
The Michigan Citizen

DETROIT — Governor Rick Snyder’s revenue-sharing incentive for local governments to merge city services is not being well received by some Detroit elected officials.

In fact, much of what the freshman governor has proposed and the laws he’s enacted in his first three months on the job are undemocratic, some say.

“With only 90 days logged, I don’t think anything taken out of his camp can be taken as a good gesture,” Senator Bert Johnson, D-Detroit, said in a telephone interview. “Everything he’s done to this point has been damaging to people’s health, safety and welfare.”

Although Johnson says there has to be a comparative analysis to determine whether a collaborative effort would work for the city of Detroit, he says he doesn’t see any benefits of such a move for the city.

“In years past the city has been solvent except when people torturously intruded on its ability to self-govern,” Johnson said.

A recently released survey by The Center for Local, State, and Urban Policy [[CLOSUP) shows 72 percent of Michigan’s local jurisdictions are currently involved in some type of formal collaborative effort with another unit of government. For larger jurisdictions, those with more than 10,000 residents, the number increases to 92 percent.

“The Governor isn’t saying that services or city-county mergers must occur,” wrote Sara Wurfel, the governor’s press secretary, in an e-mail. “’[He’s only saying] they should be allowed to occur if it makes sense, saves money and/or services and is something a particular community [or communities] determine[[s) is in their best interest. Essentially, that’s a local decision.”

Wurfel says the governor only wants to make sure the state has removed the “roadblocks that impede intergovernmental cooperation.”

In a published report, Snyder explained how he thought a merger should look. It would create metropolitan government. In that structure, “existing county government would be superseded” and “the legislative and executive powers of the city would be transferred to the metropolitan government.”

“The final decision regarding such consolidation should be left at the local level, but the consideration of such consolidation must not be prevented or discouraged by state government,” Snyder said in his special message on local government reform.

There’s been no indication from the mayor’s office or county executive’s office that such a merger is being considered at this point.

Neither Mayor Dave Bing’s office or Wayne County Executive Robert Ficano’s office responded by press time.

Johnson says the county has its own set of problems. Since the Ficano administration purchased the Guardian Building, the county has struggled with deficits which are now at $250 million.

“I don’t see where [Ficano] can handle Detroit as well,” Johnson said.

Cuyahoga County municipalities in Ohio, where Cleveland is the largest city, have been considering the “r” word — regionalization — for years. Similar to Michigan and Detroit, with a great population loss and budget cuts, the talks are getting serious.

According to a March 15 news report on Cleveland.com, Cuyahoga County Executive Ed FitzGerald says the cities can’t be forced to merge, but the county would help facilitate the process.

Even with talk of merging fire departments in one part of the county and police service and equipment in another, the county and city officials recognize the political challenge of a full out merger.

Detroit Councilmember JoAnn Watson says a merger would be problematic for Detroit.

“However, that or any expansion of Detroit must retain the city of Detroit,” Watson responded in an e-mail.

According to Watson, where similar city-county mergers have occurred, the major city was preserved.

“Detroit is, of course the historical, geographical and infrastructural heart and center of Wayne County and southeastern Michigan. Any expansion or merger should logically retain this anchoring role for Detroit in the region.”

In fact, Watson says, it should rebuild Detroit as the area’s center and reintegrate what has disintegrated through businesses and population leaving Detroit over the last 50 years.

Regionalization of southeast Michigan has been floated about for decades. While some municipalities local and otherwise have accepted the idea as beneficial for its citizens, Detroiters have always been leery of such a move. Takeovers of the city’s assets have happened and been suggested under the auspices of regionalization.

State Rep. John Olumba, D-HP, likened the relationship between Detroit and its surrounding areas to the kid on the block nobody wants to play with.

“Between other cities, we may see cooperation, but with Detroit, its exploitation,” Olumba said. “I have seen this sort of cooperation before, on schoolyard playgrounds. There is a kid who is excluded by others, perhaps he is poor and what you find is that in order to get other kids to include him, that kid has to give something up, something he may not be able to afford, something which will not buy acceptance. This kid must submit to being used — today its his lunch money, tomorrow his new hat, the next its Cobo Hall and the next the water department.”

Olumba calls this a tragedy but says “the kid” can improve his situation through self-determination.

“One day he will decide who is picked to play ball.”

Still, 50 percent of the local leaders in Michigan’s 85 counties believe Snyder’s revenue sharing incentives would be effective, according to CLOSUP’s survey. Sixty-nine percent say grants to offset higher costs often found in the first few years of new collaborative efforts would be effective at encouraging more cooperation.

See CLOSUP’s survey at www.closup.umich.edu or call 734.647.4091.




Will the Detroit/Wayne County merger create a new metropolis as the 4th largest city? Or would it create problems.

[313WX]

So what Snyder's saying is he isn't against mergers and in fact fully suports them if that's what the people want.

In other words, it ain't happening.

[illwill]

This is the new thing.

Although they'll remain 2 separate entities, Cook County and Chicago are combining certain services to save dollars.

The trend will pick up.

[mwilbert]

In other words, it ain't happening.

Not yet, anyway. I would expect to see more countywide or regional cooperation as a precursor. You could end up still having separate cities, but where most or all the services are provided at the county or regional level and the cities don't do much.

[Meddle]

I don't imagine too many people west of Beech-Daly would think this was a good idea.

[Wesley Mouch]

Kudos to Snyder. He's allowing municipalities to pursue whatever path is best for them. Some will amalgamate to save money, and some will spend to maintain their fiefdoms, and be driven to increased taxes as a result. Pick your poison. But kudos to guv for realizing that the purpose of the state is not to prevent consolidate of services where it makes sense for the taxpayers. [[And I don't care what effect it has on the bureaucracy.)

[mwilbert]

I don't imagine too many people west of Beech-Daly would think this was a good idea.

Why? There are already lots of county-wide services, and there has been a lot of agitation to regionalize the water system. I see no reason to think that people would be strongly resistant to other services being county-wide or regional. If you are suggesting that they would strongly resist regionalizing everything right now, I'd say you're right. But, for instance, I don't see any reason why property assessment couldn't be done on a county-wide basis, and as the assessments are already supposed to be done according to the same standard, I don't see why people [[as opposed to the folks running the towns) would particularly care, but it would save a lot of money.

I'm completely convinced that there will be consolidation, but the scale and timing are rather uncertain, and a lot of this is going to be driven by how desperate for savings the various entities are. There would probably be bigger savings from combining functions in smaller communities than in Detroit itself, because Detroit is probably big enough that you have most of whatever economies of scale are likely to exist. Detroit's problem is ineptitude and resources, not scale.

[Hypestyles]

... more "non-exploitive" regionalization needs to happen, sooner than later. aggressive blight removal, recruiting immigraition and foreign investment to settle in urban detroit, more..

[jackie5275]

So what Snyder's saying is he isn't against mergers and in fact fully suports them if that's what the people want.

In other words, it ain't happening.

I don't think so. Snyder can say he's against mergers unless that's what the folks want. However, the competition for revenue sharing will make them say they want it even if they truly don't. Snyder already put out his position in that if local gov'ts don't merge or combine services they will get little to no revenue sharing. The revenue sharing is a big pie piece for just about every local gov't. I don't see everyone balking when they realize they won't get it or get a significantly reduced amount.

I can't see Wayne County & Detroit merging because both Ficano & Bing like their positions of power and one would have to relent some of their's to the other in a merger. I don't think either one wants to do that. Also, it seems, most of the Detroit leaders think they should be running the show if a merger were to happen. It would be as if Wayne County gov't would be absorbed by Detroit. I think these are major obstacles in a possible merger.

I can see however more shared services in the other communities in Wayne County. There are several communities sharing a district court-Allen Park & Melvindale and Bellevile & Sumpter Twp for example. I don't think it would be too much of a stretch for more sharing, particularly with things like snow removal, libraries, garbage pickup, etc.

[jackie5275]

I'm completely convinced that there will be consolidation, but the scale and timing are rather uncertain, and a lot of this is going to be driven by how desperate for savings the various entities are.

I think this will happen sooner than later based on what this year's revenue sharing shapes up to be or not be. I think this is more revenue sharing generation driven that cost reduction driven. The revenue sharing will be the key factor.

[CLAUDE G]

The problem is that the people living in the suburbs surrounding Detroit don't want to be part of Detroit, as all its going to do is suck their tax dollars in, and will reduce the amount of services from the city that they are receiving now.

[NorthEndere]

So, the idea is to merge a shrinking city with a budget deficit with a shrinking county with a budget deficit so that now you have an unweildy incorporation with an ever-so-slightly smaller budget deficit because you'll eliminate a few dozen administrative positions?

Yeah, the boat on consolidation [[when it would have made sense) sailed a few decades back. Neither has much of anything to offer the other. I'm sure there are a few partnerships that could be made that make sense, service wise, but merging the governments, debts, and deficits of the two, wholly? Forget about the reflexive cultural/social issues that would doom this; it simple doesn't make sense from a financial positions, anymore. The two are too dissimilar, fiscally, community-by-community to make these work. This could have been a viable option back in the 60's and 70's.

I can see a scenario in which similarly-developed neighboring communities might eventually become part of a larger Detroit. Particularly the doing away of the two enclaves within Detroit [[and possibly RO Township), and as the demographics of places like Harper Woods and Southfield and Redford and Oak Park continue to change, maybe somewhere far down the road they may buy into a regional-type government, but there will not be any city county mergers in Southeast Michigan any time soon.

[Gistok]

I don't imagine too many people west of Beech-Daly would think this was a good idea.

I agree... and I also don't think casino employees are losing ANY sleep over the fact that Detroit went under 800,000....

Philadelphia is its' own city and county [[as are other places).... and makes for an interesting read...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philade...,_Pennsylvania

[mwilbert]

So, the idea is to merge a shrinking city with a budget deficit with a shrinking county with a budget deficit so that now you have an unweildy incorporation with an ever-so-slightly smaller budget deficit because you'll eliminate a few dozen administrative positions?

My idea isn't to do this at all, and I agree with everyone that it isn't going to happen voluntarily anytime soon, but if you did a county-wide consolidation you'd be consolidating all the towns and you'd be able to eliminate many more than a few dozen positions; you could eliminate more police chiefs than that. If you're claiming that they wouldn't actually end up eliminated, that could be, but I'd guess that depends upon how severe the financial situation is. If it is severe enough to prompt serious consideration of consolidation, it is probably serious enough to force real cuts in the wake of that consolidation.

[bartock]

Despite his rope-a-dope qualification on it, it seems that Snyder would be criticized more for not "embracing" the idea.

[HistoryNotHisStory]

The merger of Detroit and Wayne County is an excellent idea.

Welcome to Detroit County!

I love it.


It would save cost on services and public safety.

Considering that it is a fact that most of Detroit citizens are receiving government assistance, they cannot say no.

He who pays the piper, pays the tune.

I can't wait until my city gets an Emergency Financial Manager! When that happens Detroit can make real changes.

[Huggybear]

Expanding geographically to increase population is how most cities that surpassed Detroit did it. There is a point to this - even if there is only a small costs savings on the surface. Bigger cities get super-proportional funding from the feds. A city of 749,000 is 99.8% of the size of a city of 750,000 but gets significantly less than 99.8% of the federal funding.

[douglasm]

I wouldn't merge the city and the county, but shared services IS a viable idea. Seattle/King County, WA is doing a lot of this, and out here in my neck of the woods city/county and bi-county cooperation has been an effective way of cutting costs without cutting services.

[szla]

Watson is a dolt and counterproductive to virtually everything. I live west of Beech Daly and think it's a good idea and many people I've talked to over the years also think it's a great idea but falls short of where we should go-a three county consolidation. Charlotte, Nashville, Jacksonville, Tuscon, Toronto, Louisville etc. and so on. All these areas have smaller CBDs in adsition to a major downtown. We have to go this way. Shortly Grand Rapids will and their population will 545 thousand. Kalamazoo will follow, maybe Jackson and Saginaw. The fears that people have with regard to race, crime, petty fiefdoms, class disparity accross the region will not go away, they will only slowly and methodically eat us up the way they have eaten us up for the past 50 years. We have to think big. We are all in this together.

[Supersport]

First, I'd like to address the city/county merger. Such an idea has worked for many other major cities across the country. In some instances, it is simply a regionalization of services. In other situations, the city encompasses the whole county, such as Indianapolis/Marion County. I believe Louisville, KY and a few other KY/TN cities are city/county municipalities.

Secondly, I'll address the regionalization of services alone. From strictly a police stand point, this very subject was brought up while I was in the DPD academy over 3 years ago. An officer with some time on the job was speaking to our class and stated "Don't be surprised if you're all Wayne County Sheriffs by the time you retire." At the time, I found it to be a huge stretch. Now, just a few years later, I find it a much greater possibility. More than likely, sometime during 2011, Detroit will be closing up their cell blocks city wide. The city is looking to get out of housing prisoners, which will also help meet objectives set by the department of justice in a much more timely manner.

Such an agreement with Wayne County could realistically be a stepping stone to a county wide law enforcement agency. It wouldn't have to be Wayne County Sheriff, or even Detroit Police Department, but likely something like Metro Detroit Police Department.

Also in the short term, I totally expect both Highland Park and Hamtramck to become part of Detroit, continueing on as neighborhoods within the city. I'm not sure if there is any truth to what I heard long ago, regarding "the only way a city can exist within the boundaries of Detroit is if it borders another city also within the city of Detroit." If true, Detroit absorbing just one of the financially strapped cities would force the other into non-existance, and would presumably also become part of Detroit.

This region has a rediculous amount of suburbs that have long since extended way beyond what should be viewed as a sustainable region. While the manufacturing industry has rebounded as of recent, it will never rise to the level during the industrial revolution. Nor will wages/benefits be what they once were for the average American. Too much out sourcing over seas, and too little concern for the middle class by both parties.

Personally, I'd like to see Detroit remain Detroit, with the likely addition of Highland Park and Hamtramck. I'd also like to see a regionalized police/fire department during my career. I feel it would ultimately benefit everybody, as I'm sure that a larger department with more man power would allow an agency to qualify for more grant money from the federal government. Secondly, in this day and age, tragedy seems to strike from anything from natural disasters to terrorist plots. I believe a regionalized agency who would all receive the same training and develop preventative messures that would be the same across the board.

[Newdetroit]

My personal opinion is that detroit should merge with 200 square miles of wayne county [[not the entire county) downriver communities, dearborn/hgts, livonia, redford, etc.
First, the size of the city would be aprroximately 330 square miles, the size of dallas/san diego.
Second, the population would be 1.4 million
third the demographics would be roughly 50/50 white/black
this would be a great way to increase the tax base, increase the population/standing. Ability to receive federal funds, and breakdown the schism between the suburbs and the city, and further integrate the two races to live in the same city and work together.

[East Detroit]

They should merge all 3 counties into one city.

Would solve so many issues and save tons of cash.

[Novine]

Many suburban communities no longer get or get very little discretionary revenue sharing dollars. They still get their portion guaranteed by the constitution and without a constitutional amendment to change that, they'll still get those dollars no matter what Snyder proposes. If they are getting little or no money from the state today, what makes you think they're going to jump onto regionalization for the promise of a pittance of dollars tomorrow? The state has shown that it can't be trusted to maintain revenue sharing dollars anyways. Lots of people think voters will embrace giving up local control for the promise of lower costs. I haven't seen any evidence that voters actually support that position.

[iheartthed]

There would probably be bigger savings from combining functions in smaller communities than in Detroit itself, because Detroit is probably big enough that you have most of whatever economies of scale are likely to exist. Detroit's problem is ineptitude and resources, not scale.

The selling point for Detroit would be to get out from under the county's bureaucracy, which makes living in Detroit even more expensive. New York, Philadelphia, Baltimore are all coterminous with the counties that they overlay so there is no tax for county services like there is in Detroit [[and Wayne County services are largely redundant to what the city offers). Detroit itself is already large enough to be its own county, so I would think that the best scenario is for Detroit to secede from Wayne County [[and maybe take HP, Hamtramck with it). But I'm not sure if that's legal in Michigan...

[Gistok]

LOL... the only "selling point" I could see for this scenario is for the rest of the county... not Detroit.

I'm sure Macomb County would love to add the Grosse Pointes to their county.... [[with all the troubles there lately... they'd probably pass on Harper Woods)... that would bring their Lake St. Clair frontage to about 40 miles [[from the current 31).

Oh... and since the remainder of Wayne County would need a new county seat, they would free up the Guardian Building of workers, empty out the county courts and jail for a new suburban location...

Remind me again why this would be a win-win situation for Detroit??