Why Are There Only Three Casinos In Detroit?

DetroitDad · March-25-11, 01:15 AM

Why is the number of casinos in Detroit set at three? I understand that the Michigan law states that three casinos may be approved in any city above 800,000 people, but where did they get the number three from? Why not two, or four?

**RaumVogel** · March-25-11, 01:26 AM

I'm sure there's some beancounter-type in Lansing that figured that 4 would be too many for the amount of revenue availiable and 2 wouldn't make the state enough money.

**Meddle** · March-25-11, 02:19 AM

What, you want 'em on every corner like all the failed faux-churches and gas stations?

Three Coleman palaces are three too many.

**Gistok** · March-25-11, 03:24 AM

For those of you too young [[or out of state) back in the mid 1990s there was a state ballet referendum that asked for 3 casinos for Detroit. Reason was because $1 million was leaving Michigan every day for the Windsor Casino. The constitutional measure passed, even against Governor Engler's objection.

It became law DURING THE ARCHER ADMINISTRATION... at ONLY 3 casinos... nothing more... nothing less.

... and Meddle your anti-Coleman bashing is making you sound like a broken record... he's been dead for 11 years... it's time for you to move on....

**R8RBOB** · March-25-11, 07:53 AM

The crazy thing about the casinos was that everyone who was involved in Detroit getting casinos was eliminated from getting approved by the state or they had to sell their share. As a result, the two casinos that were given a preference by Mayor Dennis Archer were later sold and one Greektown filed for bankruptcy. And the people thought casinos was going to pour tons of dollars in the Detroit coffers.

**Hypestyles** · March-25-11, 09:31 AM

The city could use one more. But make it should be a more expansive, resort-type place..

What happened with the aborted attempt to have all of them be on the riverfront? what all was involved with that effort?

**R8RBOB** · March-25-11, 10:43 AM

Originally Posted by Hypestyles

The city could use one more. But make it should be a more expansive, resort-type place..

What happened with the aborted attempt to have all of them be on the riverfront? what all was involved with that effort?

Actually, the city could use one less but that's my opinion. The riverfront idea died when all the landholders wanted more money for their land. The city thought that they would be able to offer the fair market rate for the land but because the land was going to be used for casinos then the price of the land could go beyond the market rate and the city realized that it didn't have enough money to make that happen so they abandon the riverfront and left it in shambles. I still hate that Bastille's had to close. It was a hole in the wall but it was a comfortable place to go to have a beer.

bartock · March-25-11, 11:05 AM

Yes only 3 casinos but what will happen is, they will just add additional towers/expand the three casinos that exist. Motor City has talked about eventually adding a second tower -

http://blog.mlive.com/snapshots/2007...l_books_n.html

**Gistok** · March-25-11, 12:21 PM

Hypestyles... the casinos set aside $150 million for the Archer administration to buy up [[couldn't use Eminent Domain) about [[can't remember the exact figure) 110 acres of land along the riverfront area. Well the landowners got greedy, and the $150 million only were able to get about 42 acres for that $150 million... so Archer told the casinos to find their own locations, and in return the city got to keep the already purchased land [[much of which became Tricentennial [[Milliken) Park.

The holdouts screamed bloody murder [[and some sued)... but hey didn't have a legal leg to stand on... and now have their much diminished value land... or they already sold it to other investors for nickels on the [[Casino land value) dollar.

The greedy holdout investors... instead of pocketing a profit of millions for their land... they were banking on tens of millions... and of course got stuck holding the proverbial "bag".

This would be Schadenfreude, if the entire process hadn't already decimated the fledgling entertainment district in Rivertown!!

**Gistok** · March-25-11, 12:32 PM

Also... yes it is true that many of the initial investors who were going to be casino owners didn't pass the state background check... in Greektown Gatzaros and Papas failed and had to sell their 40% of their stakes to the Sault Ste. Marie Tribe of Chippewa Indians [[50% owners)... the Greektown pair got $248 million. Since then Gatzaros has cleaned up his act, and became a 1% owner in Greektown Casino [[maybe he owns more now??)

The MotorCity group also got stung... minority investors Herb Strathers and Nellie Varner both failed the state check, as did Mike Malik [[of Malik, Tom Celani and Marion Ilitch)... so Malik sold his shares to Marion Ilitch, who then became a 25% owner of MotorCity).

MGM Grand had a similar situation with one of the minority investors [[a college buddy of Archer) failing the state background check.

And later of course MGM Grand and Circus-Circus [[later Mandalay Bay) merged, and MGM sold their 53.5% interest of MotorCity Casino to Marion Ilitch [[they could not legally own 2 Detroit casinos). So this brought Marion Ilitch's total share ownership up to something like 88% of MotorCity. Well that didn't sit well with 10% owner Tom Celani, nor the small 2% minority investors... so they sold their remaining 12% to Marion Ilitch so that she became sole owner of that casino.

**Danny** · March-25-11, 01:00 PM

Three casinos in Detroit is enough. Detroit is NOT LAS VEGAS, RENO, BRANSON MISSOURI and ATLANTIC CITY, NEW JERSEY. But those 3 casinos could be closing soon because Detroit's population is under 800,000. It could happen by next year.

I do believe the more the millions of U.S. dollar bills will be going over Caesar's Windsor.

**Gistok** · March-25-11, 01:39 PM

Originally Posted by Danny

Three casinos in Detroit is enough. Detroit is NOT LAS VEGAS, RENO, BRANSON MISSOURI and ATLANTIC CITY, NEW JERSEY. But those 3 casinos could be closing soon because Detroit's population is under 800,000. It could happen by next year.

I do believe the more the millions of U.S. dollar bills will be going over Caesar's Windsor.

Danny... with the loss of over 10,000 jobs, hundreds of million in tax revenue for both the city and the state.... THAT WILL NEVER HAPPEN!!!

**MichiganMan** · March-25-11, 01:52 PM

The Language of Proposal E
as it appeared on Michigan's November 5, 1996, general election ballot

A Legislative Initiative to Permit Casino Gaming in Qualified Cities

The proposed law would:

Permit up to three gaming casinos in any city that meets the following qualifications: has a population of 800,000 or more; is located within 100 miles of any other state or country in which gaming is permitted; and has had casino gaming approved by a majority of the voters in the city.
Establish a Gaming Control Board to regulate casino gaming.
Impose an 18% state tax on gross gaming revenues.
Allocate 55% of tax revenue to the host city for crime prevention and economic development; allocate remaining 45% of tax funds to state for public education.

Should the proposed law be adopted? Yes [__] No [__] Results ... 1,878,542 Yes [[51.5%) vs. 1,768,156 No [[48.5%)

This is the proposal language that passed. There is nothing about what happens if the Population drops below 800,000. The casinos will remain. They were approved based on the criteria at that time.

GUSHI · March-25-11, 02:12 PM

No the real question is why didnt they built side by side to each other on a strip, detroit makes no sense.

**Gistok** · March-25-11, 03:09 PM

Originally Posted by GUSHI

No the real question is why didnt they built side by side to each other on a strip, detroit makes no sense.

No... it's called GREED... did you read my earlier post about the riverfront... once you pick a place for 3 casinos next to each other... you would be surprised at the sudden increase in value of the land... the land speculators would come out of the woodwork to buy up available land nearyby to make sure they get a nice big slice of $$$. Without Eminent Domain... it just cannot happen in a capitalistic society. This same scenario would happen in any city across America. The only way to get the land is if the city already owned the land. Then it would work. But private property has a funny tendency to suddenly go up in value when an important use is found for it.

Just ask the Ilitch's about land acquiisition for their arena. They paid the highest land price [[per square foot) in DOWNTOWN history for a small parcel on Grand River with a small 3 story building on it.

It is NOT just a Detroit thing....

**iheartthed** · March-25-11, 03:21 PM

Originally Posted by Gistok

... and Meddle your anti-Coleman bashing is making you sound like a broken record... he's been dead for 11 years... it's time for you to move on....

Been dead more than 13 years now.

**Danny** · March-25-11, 04:02 PM

Originally Posted by MichiganMan

The Language of Proposal E
as it appeared on Michigan's November 5, 1996, general election ballot

A Legislative Initiative to Permit Casino Gaming in Qualified Cities

The proposed law would:

Permit up to three gaming casinos in any city that meets the following qualifications: has a population of 800,000 or more; is located within 100 miles of any other state or country in which gaming is permitted; and has had casino gaming approved by a majority of the voters in the city.
Establish a Gaming Control Board to regulate casino gaming.
Impose an 18% state tax on gross gaming revenues.
Allocate 55% of tax revenue to the host city for crime prevention and economic development; allocate remaining 45% of tax funds to state for public education.

Should the proposed law be adopted? Yes [__] No [__] Results ... 1,878,542 Yes [[51.5%) vs. 1,768,156 No [[48.5%)

This is the proposal language that passed. There is nothing about what happens if the Population drops below 800,000. The casinos will remain. They were approved based on the criteria at that time.

Have you read law 1. on the ballot A POPULATION THAT IS OVER 800,000. Detroit is under 800,000 officially. Therefore It's now illegal to have 3 casinos in Detroit so it must close. The law in the ballot has spoken.

**Bong-Man** · March-25-11, 06:08 PM

I still feel the biggest mistake after the riverfront debacle, was not mandating that all three casinos hook up to the People Mover in some way. It should also have been the responsibility of all three casinos to support the upkeep of The People Mover....including security. You can go to Reno, Mississippi, Atlantic City, and they all keep their casinos together for the businesses that spin-off from that set-up. If you can have two stadiums in the CBD, you can have three casinos.

Remember that guy that took the walk to all three casinos and was hit up by 25 street people asking for money ? Even the Atlantic City Boardwalk isn't that bad. That's when they were boasting about all the outsiders that would travel to Detroit to gamble....and they weren't talking about Indiana and Ohio.

**dtowncitylover** · March-25-11, 06:31 PM

Originally Posted by Danny

Have you read law 1. on the ballot A POPULATION THAT IS OVER 800,000. Detroit is under 800,000 officially. Therefore It's now illegal to have 3 casinos in Detroit so it must close. The law in the ballot has spoken.

It says to PERMIT a city with over 800,000. It says nothing about if that city goes under 800,000 residents. At the time Detroit had well over 800,000 residents, therefore they were permitted to open up casinos.

I think Danny was and still is anti-casino.

**Hamtragedy** · March-25-11, 06:46 PM

The reason there are only three is that Don Barden would have been number 4. The decision to eliminate Barden has cost the city in the long term, although at the time, it seemed like a good idea, given his cable exploits. In hindsight, he was local, and would still be local [[seeing how his HQ looks over right field @ ComericaPark). I wonder how much Mr Barden would have kicked back to the local economy, and have been able to join the ranks of the Ilitches [[groan) in terms of keeping that money local, not just paying the tax bills like carpetbagger MGM.

As for the eminent domain portion of the conversation, I would have held out too, given the fact that the successful businesses down there were essentially kicked out. Sure, there were nightclubs, blues bars and jazz bars, and even galleries, but they were successful, not to mention a draw to the south side of Jefferson. I would have been livid to find the business I built was going to be taken over by an industry that was neither friendly nor local, that the voters had voted down on two previous ballot initiatives, and by a city hall that totally disregarded the impact you had on attracting a diverse and, in particular, young clientele.

Just more of the horrible decision making of the past from this town which is costing us dearly in the present.

**Gistok** · March-25-11, 06:53 PM

Bong-Man... maybe they can find a use for the old Washington Blvd. Trolleys that have been mothballed. Have the Casinos pay for laying tracks that go along Grand River From MotorCity down to MGM, and then find a route thru downtown over to Greektown [[maybe a route past the Book Cadillac)... and back again.

That way locals don't have to get in and out of their cars to park... and even folks coming in on out of state coach trips can visit all three casinos if they wish!

**Wesley Mouch** · March-26-11, 07:59 AM

Originally Posted by Meddle

What, you want 'em on every corner like all the failed faux-churches and gas stations?

And why not? In Vegas you can find 3 slot machines in the lobby of a family restaurant.

The limitation was political.

Why not allow the Magic Stick to have a machines? Why not Cheli's, or Compuware?

**English** · March-26-11, 11:30 AM

Originally Posted by Gistok

Hypestyles... the casinos set aside $150 million for the Archer administration to buy up [[couldn't use Eminent Domain) about [[can't remember the exact figure) 110 acres of land along the riverfront area. Well the landowners got greedy, and the $150 million only were able to get about 42 acres for that $150 million... so Archer told the casinos to find their own locations, and in return the city got to keep the already purchased land [[much of which became Tricentennial [[Milliken) Park.

The holdouts screamed bloody murder [[and some sued)... but hey didn't have a legal leg to stand on... and now have their much diminished value land... or they already sold it to other investors for nickels on the [[Casino land value) dollar.

The greedy holdout investors... instead of pocketing a profit of millions for their land... they were banking on tens of millions... and of course got stuck holding the proverbial "bag".

This would be Schadenfreude, if the entire process hadn't already decimated the fledgling entertainment district in Rivertown!!

Hey Gistok -- I'm moving to Rivertown in 0 minus 4 weeks. I'm torn... it would have been nice to have a more viable 'hood, but the Riverwalk and Tricentennial/Milliken Park are just beautiful. Taken with the Dequindre Cut, I have to say that the tranquility of being on the river and close to parks where I can walk, run, and bike are what sold me on this 'hood above some of the others [[with Lafayette Park a close first runner-up, and still on my list for when I buy in 2-3 years).

I'm even leaving the Live Midtown incentive on the table to make this move, which is saying a lot. Not sure I would have made this choice if I was living 7-8 blocks away from MGM or Greektown.

**English** · March-26-11, 11:35 AM

Originally Posted by GUSHI

No the real question is why didnt they built side by side to each other on a strip, detroit makes no sense.

Agreed. Also agree with those who ask why they weren't all located in closer proximity to each other and/or the People Mover. I suppose the one advantage is that MGM and MotorCity are located in areas that were dead and deader before they were there, but they are like all big Detroit developments in that they're self-contained.

The one casino whose location I resent most is the one in Greektown. Greektown was doing just fine without it, and now, some of my favorite businesses have been closed or are threatened. I mean, I like Cold Stone and Five Guys as much as anyone, but Greektown always had its own flavor.

**English** · March-26-11, 11:38 AM

One more thing -- it would be very nice to have a smoke-free casino, or a smoke-free casino floor that you could get to without being subjected to smoke. The smoke levels in all three are getting just ridiculous. I'm one of those who mainly goes for the food, drinks, and entertainment, but over the past year or so, the secondhand smoke level has gone from tolerable to ridiculous.

BTW, I'm not a goody-goody dictating what smokers do. I'm the daughter of two smokers. I also have asthma. It's getting to the point that I can't visit the casinos at all... a preventive inhaler puff beforehand used to do the trick, but no longer.