Black influx impacts school choice in Detroit suburb

[begingri]

Whites seek other education options as blacks move in

Detroit suburbs are increasingly becoming integrated in neighborhoods, but less so in the classroom.

A Detroit News analysis of U.S. census and state data shows many communities that witnessed large increases in African-American population also saw a striking increase in white students leaving their home towns to attend classes.

The transition can largely be attributed to the schools of choice program, based on an analysis of census and Michigan Department of Education data released this month.

The trend is particularly notable in Macomb County, which led the state in increase in black population, and where one in 10 students takes advantage of schools of choice, often to study in classrooms that are whiter than their neighborhoods.

The result for many of the more than 13,000 Macomb County students now taking advantage of schools of choice programs is daytime segregation and nighttime integration, said Jason Booza, a demographer at Wayne State University who has studied the racial and spatial dynamics of Metro Detroit for a decade.

"It's the continuing self-segregation of groups," said Booza, an assistant professor of family medicine at Wayne State University. "It's a pattern we've seen in Detroit for 100 years."

The connection between race and schools of choice is a hot potato among educators, who maintain that parents make choices based on quality of education, not the color of their children's classmates.

Kurt Metzger isn't so sure. "This is totally about race," said Metzger, a demographer and director of Data Driven Detroit. "There is a tipping point. When schools reach a certain percentage of African-American [[students), whites start looking elsewhere."

More than 184,000 African-Americans moved out of Detroit in the past decade, according to 2010 census figures released Tuesday. Many moved to the suburbs where both the communities and their public schools have been predominantly white: The East Detroit School District's African-American population jumped from 3 percent to 25 percent; Harper Woods, from 9 percent to 48 percent; and South Redford, from 13 percent to 37 percent.

By Ron French and Mike Wilkinson / The Detroit News

Continued at: http://detnews.com/article/20110324/...#ixzz1HUa1r9Vw

[kathy2trips]

What's that old saying? "Birds of a feather flock together"? I don't see the Polish side of my family much, but when I do, I instantly belong: I look just like them.

So, for the past 100 years, many Detroiters [[certainly not all) have rejected the notion of forced social engineering, and continue to do so? No amount of cultural guilt-tripping, or government extortion will change the need to be with one's cultural peeps here anytime soon.

What do you think all our 20th century ethnic neighborhoods were all about? Nobody on either side of my family who emigrated from Europe before WWI could speak English. Sure, it wasn't easy to learn a new language, but to be honest, they didn't have to. You could be a barber, a baker, or a mechanic and support your family and thrive only speaking your native language in your Detroit neighborhood.

African-Americans still miss their historic neighborhoods and with good reason. Black entrepreneurship was never as strong or successful as when those neighborhoods existed. The silver lining from real estate restrictions of the time was that African-Americans gained the economic and cultural empowerment from this time that was crucial to civil rights advances in the 60s.

Look at the people hanging tough in their mostly-gone neighborhoods. No, Detroiters will live [[and go to school) where they damn well please. BTW: Personally, I'd close the public schools, give parents a voucher and let the private sector have a stab at it. Couldn't do much worse.

[EASTSIDE CAT 67-83]

Its "not" about the color of the skin of new school classroom peers that forces parents to choose to move their children to a school further out in the sticks, it is the change in school environment that came with the change in the new demographic mix. There has been an increasing number of student to teacher violence, loud and unruly behavior in the classroom, increase in petty theft, aggressive behavior in general that did not exist prior to the current levels and is statistically post demographic increase in AA student population. The numbers speak for themselves and quite frankly if you were to study and quantify the reasons for moving white students out you would see a strange similarity to the same reasons "white flight" occured in detroit over the past 40 years. The numbers speak for themselves folks and to describe this phenomenom any other way than basic "white flight" is to be intelectually dishonest.

[brizee]

Not in the least surprising.
Very effing disappointing.

[mauser]

what the f*** is a "white" ???? that terminology needs to die, now.

[jcole]

what the f*** is a "white" ???? that terminology needs to die, now.

By that same token, what the hell is 'Black'? I have never seen a black or a white person in my life. Brown, beige, mocha, kind of pinkish, yes, but black or white? Never.

[R8RBOB]

For years, Metro Detroit was sold on the idea that the suburbs were great and Detroit was not. The suburbs had great homes in great neighborhoods, good schools, stores, low taxes, good services and Detroit had none of these things. So when Black Detroiters got good paying jobs and the ability to obtain that suburban paradise they went for it. Now this is America. If someone wants to move anywhere, they can but let's cut out the BS. Just like Blacks used school of choice to move their children, Whites are doing the exact same thing. This of course peels off a old scab. Question: if the school in question is so good then why is White family A is pulling their kid[[s) out of said school? I think we know the answer to that question. So in 2011, White families are trapped in their neighborhoods but they can move their children out of the schools to keep them away from the Detroiters. How sad.

[1953]

I wonder what the impact would have been if blacks from a predominantly affluent neighborhood would have been moving to predominantly white inner ring suburbs. Race is only part of the equation, me thinks.

[R8RBOB]

I wonder what the impact would have been if blacks from a predominantly affluent neighborhood would have been moving to predominantly white inner ring suburbs. Race is only part of the equation, me thinks.

1953, if the children looked and sounded like Carlton Banks and their parents had money, I think the gates would have been cracked a bit to let only so many in.

[mwilbert]

The connection between race and schools of choice is a hot potato among educators, who maintain that parents make choices based on quality of education, not the color of their children's classmates.

Kurt Metzger isn't so sure. "This is totally about race," said Metzger, a demographer and director of Data Driven Detroit. "There is a tipping point. When schools reach a certain percentage of African-American [[students), whites start looking elsewhere."

There isn't much doubt that there is a tipping point, but I don't really think it is some magic number that is unalterable. Nor do I think parents are really able to evaluate the quality of their children's schools very well--if it were easy to evaluate the quality of school there wouldn't be all the controversy over how to do it for purposes of things like NCLB. Parents rely on the testimony of their kids and what they can see, and what they can mostly see are what the student body looks like [[race, yes, but also dress and deportment), whether it is orderly,and whether the staff inspires confidence.

[Danny]

The School of Choice program in Metro-Detroit Area started with City of Ferndale in 1971 when the Ferndale Public School District started to accept students from Detroit. They did that to get federal funding and prevent budget caps and cut its deficits. At the time parents who live in their own cities in Michigan must attend schools within their own districts. [[execpt Special Educational Schools for each county). Parents who see their kids not being educated in their school districts may have to do 4 options:

1. Move to the suburbs and attend a different public school district.

2. Take their child to any religious institution.

3. Take their child to private institution.

4. Use their family or friends address and name and location from another district to send their child who is living in a different city to another school. [[That is you don't get caught!)

In late 1990s to early 2000s, Several black Detroit parents started to send their kids to East Detroit High School. By using their friends and relatives addresses. The East Detroit Public School District was not in the School of Choice Program. So it was deemed illegal. When East Detroit Public Schools found out that black kids from Detroit where in SMART busses headed to Detroit to be with their families and friends. The East Detroit Public School District put a stop to this practice. They gave those parents options:

1. They MUST live in Eastpointe area.

2. They MUST take their child out of the school.

Most of the Parents, relatives and friends of black Detroit kids were very upset.

When Gov. Granholm signed the School of Choice Bill of 2002 into law, most kids whether they are black, white or Mexican/Hispanic were allow to go to different school districts. This will allow school districts to recieve more federal funding. Teachers and admistrators of Detroit Public Schools were very upset in protest.


"The result for many of the more than 13,000 Macomb County students now taking advantage of schools of choice programs is daytime segregation and nighttime integration, said Jason Booza, a demographer at Wayne State University who has studied the racial and spatial dynamics of Metro Detroit for a decade."

I agree with him. According to Schooldigger.com There is a tremendous growth of black students [[ most of them came from Detroit) are going to individual schools in Macomb County. The Clintondale School district and the East Detroit Public Schools and every public school in Macomb County experinced black student growth up to 10 to 25% a year. [[ No wonder there are jam pack those SMART busses during the hrs. of 6:00am. to 9:00am. to 2:00pm. to 5;00pm.)

Today hundreds of public schools throughout Michigan cities are signed in the School of Choice Program [[Including Detroit Public Schools). However DPS is not getting more outside students from suburbs.

When DPS voluteers went to some suburban cities to lure students into their schools. They also went to River Rouge School District. One black man [[ a River Rouge High School graduate) who saw what DPS is doing by distributing their "Blue Door" signs in fron of the old River Rouge High School lot, came to them and yelled, "YOU CAN'T DO THAT! GET YOU AND YOUR SIGNS, OUT!"

Today some white parents are giving in to the racial fear that their children will be feeling more peer pressure from black kids who are from streets. This could lead to the plague of bullying and robbery from their point of view. So most of them are sending their kids further away to other school district that have little or no black or any ethnic races. [[They, too are using School of Choice Program.)

What is going to happen later in 2020 to 2050 is an influx of blacks and ethnic families who are living anywhere in Detroit and suburbs will send their kids to other different districts. Most different school districts will have 25 to 50 blacks and ethnic students per school building. But that would lead to good news to those school districts that will recieve more federal funding and prevent cuts to extra-cirrular activites. Bad news to some white families who don't like the program. Therefore they have to deal with this intergration sine the days of Ruby Bridges and the Little Rock Nine. Public and private schools are now treated as the same rights in the fouthteen Amendment of the Bill of Rights [[ compared to Media corporations) to be treated as human beings. Public Schools in Michigan is now officially a CORPORATION thanks by School of Choice Program and lots of parents and teachers are going to like it or hate it.


WORD FROM THE STREET PROPHET

Because everyone deserves a FREE education anywhere and anyplace.

Neda, I miss you so.

[R8RBOB]

I agree with him. According to Schooldigger.com There is a tremendous growth of black students [[ most of them came from Detroit) are going to individual schools in Macomb County. The Clintondale School district and the East Detroit Public Schools and every public school in Macomb County experinced black student growth up to 10 to 25% a year. [[ No wonder there are jam pack those SMART busses during the hrs. of 6:00am. to 9:00am. to 2:00pm. to 5;00pm.)

When I didn't have the use of my car, I rode on the SMART. Two buses in particular, the Woodward and the Gratiot. I caught the Woodward early one morning at 7Mile and it was packed with kids. Where were they going? Ferndale . As for the Gratiot, I was on a bus a number of times and going back to Detroit, that bus was always packed with kids going back to Detroit. It was at that point, I realized that a lot of Detroit kids were going to suburban schools.

[English]

African-Americans still miss their historic neighborhoods and with good reason. Black entrepreneurship was never as strong or successful as when those neighborhoods existed. The silver lining from real estate restrictions of the time was that African-Americans gained the economic and cultural empowerment from this time that was crucial to civil rights advances in the 60s.

Totally agreed. There is nothing that makes me want to live in a neighborhood where I'm not wanted. Even while in Ann Arbor, I chose a zip code and a complex that was one of the most integrated in the city. The white grad students thought it was "not safe." [[In Ann Arbor???) Other black grad students chose more upscale neighborhoods and then got upset when their neighbors glared at them or engaged in other microaggressions. I sympathized, but I couldn't relate. No way would I choose a neighborhood where my presence is unwelcome or seen as a sign of decline.

A family friend's parents were on the leading edge of black flight. They reached Southfield in the late 1970s and Novi/Wixom in the early 1990s. I had a conversation with them a few months ago when I was considering moving to one of the Pointes. I said that I knew there was far more integration, but I couldn't forget the rhetoric about the Alter Road wall, or the fact that Detroiters couldn't use the parks when ours were open to all. My friend's mom told me in no uncertain terms that as a middle class Black woman, I had a responsibility to challenge White hostility to integration.

Screw that. I'm looking forward to moving back to the city. In 10-15 years, the neighborhoods where I live and work will be some of the most integrated in metro Detroit. I will let those with hangups of all races work out their issues out in the boondocks. We city folk [[and our suburban supporters) of all races have work to do and a mission to accomplish.

[rjk]

Question: if the school in question is so good then why is White family A is pulling their kid[[s) out of said school? I think we know the answer to that question. So in 2011, White families are trapped in their neighborhoods but they can move their children out of the schools to keep them away from the Detroiters. How sad.

Who says a particular school is good? It might just be safer and slightly better than a DPS school. That's not a hard standard to meet.

In theory, schools of choice was supposed to increase competition for students and in the process make schools better. The problem is that with a large dysfunctional district like DPS all suburban schools have to do is open their doors and they'll have no problem filling the seats.

Not all schools in Oakland County are of the same quality. I recall reading and article about Madison school district in which they mentioned that 40% of the students lived outside the district. It also mentioned that equal number of kids that lived in the district where going to other schools of choice. I did a little research on the internet and found out that prior to open enrollment Madison had some of the lowest test scores this side of DPS.

[LodgeDodger]

By that same token, what the hell is 'Black'? I have never seen a black or a white person in my life. Brown, beige, mocha, kind of pinkish, yes, but black or white? Never.

Actually, there are folks who are considered to be pasty white--I'm one of 'em.

[Buy American]

Its "not" about the color of the skin of new school classroom peers that forces parents to choose to move their children to a school further out in the sticks, it is the change in school environment that came with the change in the new demographic mix. There has been an increasing number of student to teacher violence, loud and unruly behavior in the classroom, increase in petty theft, aggressive behavior in general that did not exist prior to the current levels and is statistically post demographic increase in AA student population. The numbers speak for themselves and quite frankly if you were to study and quantify the reasons for moving white students out you would see a strange similarity to the same reasons "white flight" occured in detroit over the past 40 years. The numbers speak for themselves folks and to describe this phenomenom any other way than basic "white flight" is to be intelectually dishonest.

I couldn't have said it any better, 100% right on.

[jcole]

Actually, there are folks who are considered to be pasty white--I'm one of 'em.

I'm fairly pasty myself, but I'm not the color of typing paper; more of a light ecru

[LodgeDodger]

I'm fairly pasty myself, but I'm not the color of typing paper; more of a light ecru

Years ago, I was wearing a pair of white pantyhose. After getting a run in them, you couldn't tell there was a run, as the hose blended perfectly with my skin. 8-[[

[R8RBOB]

Who says a particular school is good? It might just be safer and slightly better than a DPS school. That's not a hard standard to meet.

In theory, schools of choice was supposed to increase competition for students and in the process make schools better. The problem is that with a large dysfunctional district like DPS all suburban schools have to do is open their doors and they'll have no problem filling the seats.

Not all schools in Oakland County are of the same quality. I recall reading and article about Madison school district in which they mentioned that 40% of the students lived outside the district. It also mentioned that equal number of kids that lived in the district where going to other schools of choice. I did a little research on the internet and found out that prior to open enrollment Madison had some of the lowest test scores this side of DPS.

You're right. The school has to be safer and slightly better than a DPS school. Being "good" was my way of going over the top since many Detroiters blindly assume that because the school is in the suburbs, then it is going be better than any school in Detroit.

[guito13]

Totally agreed. There is nothing that makes me want to live in a neighborhood where I'm not wanted. Even while in Ann Arbor, I chose a zip code and a complex that was one of the most integrated in the city. The white grad students thought it was "not safe." [[In Ann Arbor???) Other black grad students chose more upscale neighborhoods and then got upset when their neighbors glared at them or engaged in other microaggressions. I sympathized, but I couldn't relate. No way would I choose a neighborhood where my presence is unwelcome or seen as a sign of decline.

A family friend's parents were on the leading edge of black flight. They reached Southfield in the late 1970s and Novi/Wixom in the early 1990s. I had a conversation with them a few months ago when I was considering moving to one of the Pointes. I said that I knew there was far more integration, but I couldn't forget the rhetoric about the Alter Road wall, or the fact that Detroiters couldn't use the parks when ours were open to all. My friend's mom told me in no uncertain terms that as a middle class Black woman, I had a responsibility to challenge White hostility to integration.

Screw that. I'm looking forward to moving back to the city. In 10-15 years, the neighborhoods where I live and work will be some of the most integrated in metro Detroit. I will let those with hangups of all races work out their issues out in the boondocks. We city folk [[and our suburban supporters) of all races have work to do and a mission to accomplish.

English, I am sorry that you had such feelings. If people truly did give you a problem simply because of the color of your sking they are the ones with the problem. That being said, do you think that your upbringing, stories you have heard, etc. may have altered youre perception of the people in those neighborhoods causing some of those feelings?

My girlfriend is a substutite teacher and works in various districts around the area. I consider her a very big hearted and tolerable person but her worst days are when she works in the districts where there are a lot of school-of-choice students from Detroit proper. She says the students are completely disrespectful, use language that she considers inappropriate for adults, and are a distraction to the entire class. I am sorry, but that is simply the truth of what is going on. As a PARENT, I wouldn't want my kid in that class regardless of the color of the problem students skin. I truly believe that there is a HUGE parenting issue in the detroit community [[Heck, you know its bad when the powers that be talk about laws requiring parents to simply go to parent teacher meetings). A significant number of parents do not take any accountability for their childrens actions.

I am sure this post will have me labeled as a racist, but I stand by it. I am a realist and I make statements about what I see happening in my life and dont sugarcoat them to try to make others feel better. A honest, open discussion is what needs to take place here, and people need to start looking at themselves in the mirror.

[SWMAP]

i was in a DPS building [[ a former Catholic school building on the east side) last fall and I watched as the kindergarden teacher and an aide tried to form two lines of children [[boys in one, girls in the other) to descend some stairs. She asked them to satnd up straight and place one hand on the bannister, the other hand to their sides. I was interested in the outcome as I taught for a decade in a Catholic school in SW Detroit where orderly halls and classrooms were the rule.

In more than 10 minutes of waiting, speaking gently, more waiting, etc. she could not get those children to stop sitting on the stairs, laying over the steep sides of the staircase, stop shoving at the end of the line, etc. I was pretty sad because usually kindergardeners are so eager to please and these small children were pretty passively agressively defiant.

Many of their uniforms were filthy, worn for weeks. What does that say about the level of respect for school and learning in those homes?


Its a cultural thing in my mind. As a parent, I wouldn't want my child watching this behavior, waiting for order, making conclusions, waiting to be taught, etc. Just better to have them in a school without the cultural complications.

[mwilbert]

That's pretty interesting. If you can't get the kindergarten kids to do what you want, I 'd say the prospects of anything good happening in that school are doubtful.

[R8RBOB]

English, I am sorry that you had such feelings. If people truly did give you a problem simply because of the color of your sking they are the ones with the problem. That being said, do you think that your upbringing, stories you have heard, etc. may have altered youre perception of the people in those neighborhoods causing some of those feelings?

My girlfriend is a substutite teacher and works in various districts around the area. I consider her a very big hearted and tolerable person but her worst days are when she works in the districts where there are a lot of school-of-choice students from Detroit proper. She says the students are completely disrespectful, use language that she considers inappropriate for adults, and are a distraction to the entire class. I am sorry, but that is simply the truth of what is going on. As a PARENT, I wouldn't want my kid in that class regardless of the color of the problem students skin. I truly believe that there is a HUGE parenting issue in the detroit community [[Heck, you know its bad when the powers that be talk about laws requiring parents to simply go to parent teacher meetings). A significant number of parents do not take any accountability for their childrens actions.

I am sure this post will have me labeled as a racist, but I stand by it. I am a realist and I make statements about what I see happening in my life and dont sugarcoat them to try to make others feel better. A honest, open discussion is what needs to take place here, and people need to start looking at themselves in the mirror.

Dude, that is not racist, so don't go there. I have posted here on numerous occasions describing my experiences going through the Detroit schools back in 2005 and I discovered that a number of the kids lack respect, were flip-mouths, didn't give a fuck that I was more than twice their age. To them, they thought I was a peer therefore they could talk all the shit they want and every single day I went home saying "if this is our future, we are doomed." I too would not want a child of mines taught in that kind of enviroment so the onus falls on the parents. If parents don't care about the school environment for a child then of course the child isn't going to care and that's is the problem at hand.

[guito13]

Dude, that is not racist, so don't go there. I have posted here on numerous occasions describing my experiences going through the Detroit schools back in 2005 and I discovered that a number of the kids lack respect, were flip-mouths, didn't give a fuck that I was more than twice their age. To them, they thought I was a peer therefore they could talk all the shit they want and every single day I went home saying "if this is our future, we are doomed." I too would not want a child of mines taught in that kind of enviroment so the onus falls on the parents. If parents don't care about the school environment for a child then of course the child isn't going to care and that's is the problem at hand.

I don't consider my comments racist either but unfortunately I have been called a racist for even less than that :-[[ I dislike everybody equally :-)

[English]

English, I am sorry that you had such feelings. If people truly did give you a problem simply because of the color of your sking they are the ones with the problem. That being said, do you think that your upbringing, stories you have heard, etc. may have altered youre perception of the people in those neighborhoods causing some of those feelings?

My girlfriend is a substutite teacher and works in various districts around the area. I consider her a very big hearted and tolerable person but her worst days are when she works in the districts where there are a lot of school-of-choice students from Detroit proper. She says the students are completely disrespectful, use language that she considers inappropriate for adults, and are a distraction to the entire class. I am sorry, but that is simply the truth of what is going on. As a PARENT, I wouldn't want my kid in that class regardless of the color of the problem students skin. I truly believe that there is a HUGE parenting issue in the detroit community [[Heck, you know its bad when the powers that be talk about laws requiring parents to simply go to parent teacher meetings). A significant number of parents do not take any accountability for their childrens actions.

I am sure this post will have me labeled as a racist, but I stand by it. I am a realist and I make statements about what I see happening in my life and dont sugarcoat them to try to make others feel better. A honest, open discussion is what needs to take place here, and people need to start looking at themselves in the mirror.

We all see life through our own experiences. Why do you care if people think you are a racist? If I were in your shoes, I wouldn't care what people thought of me. Own your perspectives and the way you see the world.

You have to realize that for every action, there is an equal, opposite reaction. It is a basic, universal principle. A few thoughts follow:

1) Yes, there are a LOT of rowdy and rude kids from Detroit. But not all Detroit kids are. I taught Detroit kids for six long years and never had a problem. I've taught at an exemplary suburban school and I taught at Cass Tech. Give me Cass any day of the week. The kids were bright, quick, and eager in a way that my suburban kids weren't. I'd say more about this, but then some folks would get really insulted, so in the interest of being a kinder, gentler English, I'll refrain.

2) It's hard to hear that some folks of color don't think that all-white suburban neighborhoods are the bee's knees, isn't it? Sure, they tend to be safer and cleaner. However, I will argue how alienating they are not just for us, but even for white folks themselves. We were ALL better off when we lived in human scale, dense, and walkable neighborhoods. I would also argue that back then, there was residential segregation by race and class [[as there is now), but there was also a closer PROXIMITY to other people. An ethnic neighborhood was just a long walk or a short streetcar/bus ride away.

3) There is a saying in the black community that when America catches a cold, Black America gets pneumonia. That parenting issue that you speak of is something that I've noticed in Detroit AND in the suburbs. Since in this country, race is often conflated with class, bad parenting correlates strongly with poverty AND despair. I get SO tired of the counterargument, "Well, poor white people/parents/kids/women/men act better than working class black people/parents/kids/women/men." Poor white people are still, in this country, even in 2011, white.